Wierd call break-up when dialing digits

**taylorh** · 08/04/2004, 02:50 AM

I've noticed this on several calls now.
When I make a call, then have to dial digits (say an account number, menu option, or voice mail pin) it causes the call to start breaking up terribly. What I mean by break up is that there are are repeated, evenly spaced, quick cut outs in the audio.

It appears to be directly related to dialing digits, especailly when using "dial extra digits" on the voicemail. It also appears to only affect the incoming audio as the person on the other end of the conversation notices nothing strange.

I'm on Cingular and didn't notice this when I was on AT&T. It's not on every call, but it frequently happens when calling voicemail (which is how I figured out it's related to dialing touch tone digits while on the call.)
Could it be that I'm using the ROW firmware? Maybe I should try Cingular's firmware to see if it's a network optimization thing?

Anyone ever experience this bizarre behavior?

**tritium** · 08/04/2004, 05:02 AM

I thought maybe I was crazy, but I seem to notice this too! I'm on cingular, running a cingular firmware. It seems like at the very least, dialing digits makes the incoming sound "stutter" for 1 second after, and at the worst, the rest of the call has a break in the sound every half second until you hang up and redial. I haven't found a solution to it... Now that I know it's not just me, maybe we can figure something out.

My phone was an AT&T phone too, not branded on the outside but it came running ATT's 3.06. I flashed it to 3.05 Cingular.

Aside from this issue I don't have any problems with call quality at all, it's loud and clear.

**blocktek** · 08/04/2004, 10:24 AM

Glad I'm not the only one. I've thought to post here, but couldn't figure out how to describe the problem. I'm also using Cingular with the most recent firmware. I hadn't realized the dialpad connection, but now that I think of it, it only happens when checking my voicemail. I have noticed however, that when it happens, my phone generally hangs for a minute or two. In other words, I can't make any outgoing calls, much less use the PDA portion of the phone till it lets go. Often, if I'm in a hurry, I have to do a soft reset on the phone to get going.

**taylorh** · 08/04/2004, 04:53 PM

OK, this is great! I've asked my wife (same harware,software,service) if she's noticed this and she said "No." But she very very rarely dials digits or gets voice mail. I am going to borrow her Treo tonight and see if it happens on hers the same way it happens on mine.
I don't get it on EVERY call I dial digits on, but almost 100% of the time when I call in to voicemail.
I did notice it seems to prevent the problem if I wait for the prompts to finish (no incoming sound) and dial the digits slowly 1 by one rather than dial them fast and let them cue up and tone out as fast as Treo can do it. But not always. Sometimes it starts doing this after 1 single button press (as in dial "1" for english, "2" for espanol)

I wonder if it's related to any other software I have on the phone or if it's just Cingular.
I'm going to do a factory reset and experiment to rule out additional software.
Also I've already ruled out GPRS data being an issue by reproducing the problem after doing a soft reset and when nothing is attempting to use data.

It seems to be related to interrupting the incoming audio of the call by dialing digits, or at least it SEEMS to have something to do with it.

So it's not just me, and it's not just my Treo.

By the way, I also get my call dropped and my treo hangs after about a minute as well.
Thanks for responding. I'm going to continue to troubleshoot, but it may just be a Cingular/Treo bug.

Since at least one of you is using the Cingular firmware, then I know it's not because I'm using the ROW firmware on treo. I thought maybe there was something in the Cingular firmware which optimized with the carrier and what I was hearing was related to that somehow, but I think we've ruled that out as well.

-Taylor

**a510m** · 08/05/2004, 02:20 PM

Here- I thought I was special- I'm running same everything as mentioned above (Cingular) - I had my 600 replaced with a new unit for a speaker problem, and both units had the same cutting out problem when dialing voicemail or bank account type calls that required tone input. Also, when hang up, phone locks for about 1 minute- I think this is unique to Cingular since I haven't seen any posts from Sprint, T-Mobile, or AT&T users-- If anyone hears of a fix for this, please post!

Also, I have the THB car-kit installed, and this problem occurs whether in car cradle or using handset alone. I usually resolve the issue by hanging up and re-dialing until it doesn't cut out- I've tried dialing the data numbers at different rates, haven't seen any consistency yet at one speed vs another.

I've tried doing soft resets (the Palm purported generic "fix-all" for problems they don't have other solutions for) to no avail when the phone hangs up- It does break the phone free, but then you have to re-connect to the network and it hangs the next time you dial. Obviously a software issue.... Come on Palm & Cingular... get it together before you lose the confidence of your loyal client base (former 270 owner and user of Palm hardware since the first PDA's came out). That Nextel Blackberry is looking better every day...............

Ok- I'm going to go finish knocking my head against the wall now while I wait for my 600 to reset AGAIN.

**jposin** · 08/05/2004, 03:39 PM

This started happening to me after the latest firmware update, in conjunction with the much slower speed and spacing of the DTMF tones. I don't get freezes or hangs.

**taylorh** · 08/05/2004, 06:10 PM

I also noticed this after the firmware update.

For what it's worth, I did a (hard) factory reset yesterday and after initial set-up, placed a call to voicemail before installing any sowftare. It exhibited the problem so it's not related in any way software configurations or installations.

I think it's just a bug in conjunction with Cingular service.
I don't know if there's anything we can do about it except try to get a bug report to the right person in Palm and/or Cingular.

-Taylor

**a510m** · 08/06/2004, 01:15 PM

I e-mailed Palm yesterday with details on the problem, they've opened a ticket on it and will supposedly be getting back to me... I checked Cingular's website, that was pretty much a waste of time.

BTW, I tried waiting till the automated systeme stops talking on voice mail before entering DTMF tones, it seemed to help but still had problem occur approximately 30% of the time.

**taylorh** · 08/06/2004, 02:19 PM

Originally Posted by a510m

I e-mailed Palm yesterday with details on the problem, they've opened a ticket on it and will supposedly be getting back to me... I checked Cingular's website, that was pretty much a waste of time.

BTW, I tried waiting till the automated systeme stops talking on voice mail before entering DTMF tones, it seemed to help but still had problem occur approximately 30% of the time.

That's great. At least they know of the problem. Thanks for sacking up and doing that.
So I'd wait for the voice prompt to stop. Press a number. Wait, press another number, wait and do that very slow and systematically. It does seem to help. As you said, it's only about 60% effective.
If I was a betting man, I'd say that since they lengthened the DTMF tones in firmware 3.05, there is a side effect of intterupting the call processing just long enough to cause progressive degredation. Kind of like pegging the CPU at 100% long enough to start wrecking the process that's decoding the call.
I think by taking pauses between dialing digits it gives the Treo a chance to catch up and prevent the lag that causes the call break up.

I've worked in software QA long enough to know this is not an unusual type of thing to happen on a CE device.

I also noticed that by dialing the digits on the keyboard (instead of on screen) the problem seemed less likely to happen. But this could be pure coincidence. I have had it happen using the keyboard, just less often.

Keep us updated if you hear any response from Palm. I think the best we can hope for at this point is some update in the distant future. Honestly we stand a better chance of getting if fixed if we could get Cingular to complain to Palm and it's possible that's already happened.

Cool, thanks again.

**bitstream** · 08/06/2004, 03:25 PM

I am on Sprint and have a similar problem. I have stuttering when I dial a call and hear the ringing. It also occurs in call, though not as badly.

I just got the Treo a few weeks ago and it is noticable enough to make me wonder if the unit is worth keeping.

**ccotnoir** · 08/06/2004, 03:32 PM

Interesting to read this thread. I experience the same thing when calling voicemail except in my case, the call hangs up when I dial the extra digits (like my password for example). When I dial the extra digits on my screen, it NEVER happens, so I don't think this is a coincidence.

Also running the latest firmware.

**Puffy_Pen** · 09/02/2004, 10:41 PM

I have just recently bought an unlocked TREO 600 and have a similar problem as described in this thread with a twist. I started out with Tmobile GSM service, and I got the sound breakup and subsequent minute-long hang about 60% of the time when I dialed extra digits�annoying, but workable. I then did the SW update to 1.12 (for unlocked phones). Then the problem occurred 100% of the time when I tried to dial extra digits�not acceptable.

I contacted Palmone and (after a lot of useless diagnostics) they sent me a new phone. The first time I dialed extra digits on the new phone, no problem. Unfortunately, the break-up and hang returned after that.

Now it gets weird. I accidentally used extra digits in another location of my town, and it worked! It won�t work anywhere on my street, but starts to work � mile away. Obviously, this behavior had to do with something in my environment. We get excellent wireless service from Tmobile (usually 4 bars minimum), but we are situated very near some hills, so maybe that is a factor.

OK�I figured that it might be something to with the Tmobile network�here in the Bay Area, Tmobile and Cingular share towers, and following the other notes in this thread, Cingular seemed to be the network on which this problem occurs. Thus, I switched over to ATT.

The good news is that I don�t get the breakup when dialing extra digits while on the ATT Wireless network. The bad news is that the coverage for ATT is not very good at my house. Thus, I end up�you guessed it�on the Cingular network more often than not.

I find this bizarre�clearly some environmental issue is causing my TREO to not behave properly while using the Cingular towers in the vicinity of my house.

Any suggestions?

**blocktek** · 09/03/2004, 01:08 AM

You are echoing my suspicions here. I've noticed that the problem occurs much more in certain cell zones, and when I've got a questionable signal. Sometimes I just have to drive a few miles and the problem goes away completely.

Cingular branded Treo600
cingular service
firmware 3.04

By the way, I just had my phone replaced (for the buzzing issue) after owning it since January. Palm was VERY agreeable to sending me the warranty replacement. In most respects, the new phone seems to work better - better sound, better speakerphone, better connections - but this bug still remains.

I am also in the Bay Area. Maybe we should start keeping track of where we are when we have the problem?

**taylorh** · 09/03/2004, 05:26 PM

I agree. Last month when I was roaming on Edge wireless I never had this issue, I seem to only get it here at home on the Bay Area system. I haven't been paying close attention to weather or not it happens only in certain areas (certain towers) or not.
Perhaps it's also related to the frequency/band? I don't know enough about this but I know there's a GSM 900 and 1800 (or is it 1900.) But for all I know they all use the same one, just thought I'd throw that out here.

Well it's a bug, and it sucks.

**blocktek** · 09/15/2004, 09:49 AM

Okay, for what its worth, this week I had several incidents, both in San Francisco:

-On Portrero @ 18th Street (Southbound)
-On Embarcadero @ Folsom (Northbound)
-In a weak cel zone in front of 355 Bryant (@Second)

**treonovice** · 09/21/2004, 03:09 AM

I've been trying to figure out how to explain this problem and find out if other people have it. Thankfully someone read my post and sent me here.

Other places I've had the problem...
19th & Sloat (near Stonestown),
Spear at the Palomino bar (Embarcadero),
the park at Washington and Steiner (Pac Heights)

I have T-mobile, but T-mobile and Cingular share the same network in CA (Cingular owns it, but they are talking about selling the JV to T-Mobile after the deal with AT&T Wireless closes, likely in November.)

I figure this takes someone with real resourcefulness and determination to solve from either T-Mobile/Cingular or PalmOne. You only get that from the Executive Office customer service. I have left a voicemail for the CEO of T-Mobile, and mailed a letter to the CEO of PalmOne yesterday. T-Mobile's executive office customer service has put an engineer on the case who wants to help and has asked to hear/use my phone when I'm having the problem. I'll see what I can do. I think it is ultimately a PalmOne problem to fix, since the problem seems to be only with their phone and after the update (v 1.12). Perhaps the engineer can either figure out why it is only in the Bay Area, or put pressure on Palm to fix their device.

It's good to know others out there have found the same issue. If anyone has an idea of how I can show them how many other people are having the issue, let me know! I'd like to get this solved (T-Mobile is now offering to move me to a Blackberry if they can't solve it, but we all know I don't want to switch).

My story is at:
http://discussion.treocentral.com/sh...ad.php?t=58051

**treonovice** · 09/21/2004, 03:45 AM

Does anyone with this problem experience it anywhere other than in San Francisco?

**Puffy_Pen** · 12/03/2004, 07:30 AM

This issue seems to have gone away for me in the last few weeks. Has it for others?

**a510m** · 12/03/2004, 11:43 AM

Still having same problems, however I have been able to work around the issue by making sure I only dial extra digits in strong signal areas and entering the digits at a certain speed. Palm One and Cingular have not been any help. At this point, just waiting for the 650 to come out and hoping it is a hardware/software issue that won't come up again in the new model. If it does, it's enough of an annoyance to drive me to consider a Blackberry or other device.... which would of course SUCK! However, it is REALLY irritating not to be able to retreive voice mail without having the call break up and then have to start over.

**Puffy_Pen** · 12/04/2004, 12:26 AM

My problems ended very shortly after the CingularMy problems ended shortly after the Cingular/ATT merger. I use TMobile. I know that Cingular and TMobile were sharing towers in (at least) the Bay Area. Are they still? Perhaps something has happened in that regard after the merger that caused my good fortune.

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