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  1. #41  
    does anyone know if the battery in the "ace" treo will be removable?
    Sprint Treo 700p, Sony UX/TX, u720,
    Edirol R-09, Mitsu PK 20, Mimio
  2. #42  
    Does not sound it.
  3. #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by heberman
    There are trade-secret laws which allow injunctions and other extraordinary relief to help people/companies to protect confidential information when someone has violated confidentiality provisions in NDA's.

    but can TC be held responsible for someone elses breaking the NDA?

    Not that I blame them, but I think TC ran scared. They probably dont have the money to fight it and with the digital millenium act, all this carrier has to file a report with the ISP claiming (not proving) some type of violation, and the site is off the net.
    On the road to 5,000 posts
    Life is what happens between Firmware releases.
  4. #44  
    I'm sure Sprint said they would stop providing them with phones, which is their main source of revenue, and slap them with a lawsuit.
  5. #45  
    Though the memory is fading I thought one of these messages/articles said the infamous bad photo was a cameraphone picture of a powerpoint slide presented at/by Sprint. It's not clear to THIS non-lawyer how Sprint would manage to successfully pursue a lawsuit against a purported journalistic site - maybe copyright violation if the slide had been copyrighted - but an article about the "next TREO" is entirely doable if the photo itself isn't used. For example, write an article about the next TREO and hand-make a mockup rather than using an actual image - there are some pretty good Photoshop artists around who have made some excellent fake-phone images - one could be convinced, I'm sure, to make a fake-image of a "rumored" next TREO given some "rumored" description of it...

    One interesting factoid is that numerous sites (palminforcenter, pdabuzz, bargainpda, etc) all have articles about the "next TREO", some with photos, and all pretty much citing TreoCentral. Why haven't THEY caved into the threat of a lawsuit from Sprint?

    [and, say, when is that TreoCentral article about TREO failures coming?...]
    Last edited by SeldomVisitor; 06/28/2004 at 07:03 AM.
  6. cue79's Avatar
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    Well - only thing I can figure about all this, is that TC wants to continue to sell Sprint phones - as they have in the past. Therefore, if Sprint says "We don't want that article posted or we'll pull your abillity to sell phones now and in the future (especially the future)," well then that sounds like a good enough reason to me.

    Other sites don't sell the equipment, they just talk about it - that might be why the "unnamed" carrier is not going after them. still has the info on their home page, and I'm sure Sprint would love to tell them to pull the info. However, they don't sell anything, and they're relationship with Sprint is probably more love hate then anyone elses.

    Personally, I respect TC's decision to pull the article, and can understand for business reasons why they did it. However, I can say that it certainly does influence my reccomendations to clients. Some of my clients have already bought T600's based on my use of the product,and others were looking to purcahse. I have at least three people ready to buy it on VZW's network, if it ever comes out. I'm sure VZW's will be the T600 and not the Ace, causing a major delema.

    I believe I will tell them about the new product - say that it's all "rumour" at this point, and that more then likely Sprint will be the first carrier. I'll also explain that overall, they may not need the features that Ace offers.. I guess it'll be a we will see game. I just can't see telling people "Oh yeah, wait another year for the next gen device.. don't buy what you have now". Simple fact - if you need a device that does what the Treo does now, then buy it now. Ace is nice, but not anything super special for MOST people who will be using the devices.

    In any event, I'll be buying one the day of release.. just hope there's an upgrade program from P1 like there was from Handspring.
  7. #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by cue79
    In any event, I'll be buying one the day of release.. just hope there's an upgrade program from P1 like there was from Handspring.
    Right on.
  8. #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by miradu
    Tech Journalism has a lot of NDA's involved - Mansouan has it all figured out. Basically, one-three weeks before a products release, PalmOne or whatever company, contacts the print publishers and websites, and they have a private call with each site going over all the details. For top tier publishers (nytimes, cnet, pcmag, mossberg, etc), review units are arranged, so that on release day, the most visited spots on the web will have frontpage reviews of their devices. PalmOne gets more attention, and users get faster information - everyone wins. These are always temporary NDA's that "expire" on midnight of the day of product announcement. We've signed them in the past, and we are looking forward to sign them in the future. If we did not sign them, we would not be able to compete with other websites that did.
    miradu, the subject of NDAs is one of my personal sore spots. It doesn't sound like this Treo article had anything to do with NDAs. It sounds like we're talking about Sprint either leveraging their existing relationship with you (for selling phones) or simply threatening lawsuit. Whether or not they have a real case, simply threatening a lawsuit would probably be enough for most sites to back down. So I've got no real problem there.

    On the subject of NDAs though, I do want to disagree with you. I don't think that you need to sign an NDA in order to compete with other news sites. Personally, I don't like them. I view my role at Tapland primarily as editor and news reporter and I delegate reviews to my reviewers. If my reviewers want to sign an NDA so that they can get advanced copies of software or accessories, that's fine. I don't want them telling me anything about it though, because as a news reporter I need the freedom to write editorials, rumors, etc. It's also worth considering some of the goofups of the past. I can remember not too long ago where some palmOne devices got released to retail stores earlier than they were supposed to. Several sites, stuck within the confines of their NDAs, made no mention of this while their forums were buzzing with users posting their impressions and photos of the devices. A few days later when the devices were "officially" released, these sites then had their "official" reviews up. The quality of the reviews may have been better than most of the first impressions and photos posted, but for many of the users of those sites, it had already become old news and the sites, quite frankly, looked silly.

    Having said that, it is worth pondering just how important this advanced speculation and reporting of early accidental releases is to the general userbase. You may very well be correct that the majority of the people who visit these sites would prefer to wait to see a professional quality review than to get early leaked info if it meant that they had to wait a week longer to read that professional quality review.

    Still, where I've come down on this issue (which, again, probably has nothing to do with the issue of this Treo Ace article getting pulled) is to separate the news reporting and review duties such that your reviewers can sign NDAs and get early devices but the news reporters can speculate and report on other early info. How you prove that separation to the companies that are providing your reviewers with review samples, bound under NDA, is something I'm not clear on and would, of course, be important to nail down.

    Now THIS is the future of smartphones.
  9. #49  
    Did we ever find out why the Treo 600 on TC review took so long?
  10. #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by mansouan
    My guess is that Sprint or whatever wireless provider contacted TC is concerned that they will have difficulty unloading their current inventory of T600s. Understandable, they probably buy in large quantities to get better pricing out of P1 and wouldn't want to get stuck holding the bag when the next gen device goes on sale.
    Didn't Sprint just invest a boatload in the new Treo without the camera? If that hasn't even hit the stores yet and word is out that a newer model is coming out, they could lose their proverbial a$$.
  11. #51  
    You know what the funny thing is, someone took down the article but it just caused a bigger spur here in the newsgroups. I highly doubt that most people just go to the main page without going to these boards as information is much more dynamic here.

    Nobody made them pull the "Predictions for Treo in 2004" news article which touches most of the new features from a crystal ball view. It just proves that the leak is true and the screenshots were what caused it to be yanked.
  12. #52  
    While I am not happy about the carrier’s actions to “squash” the information, nor the way TC might have “caved” into the carrier’s demands, I have to take a step back and ask myself “What matters most?”

    Assuming the carrier was Sprint, let’s look at a few things. First of all, Sprint’s customer service and tech support (except for Tier 2) is woefully lacking. But their coverage is better than everyone else (except for Verizon) and their pricing is the best out of all the carriers – period. So while I am not happy having to accept mediocre customer service, I feel the coverage and pricing makes up for it. Even though I do not like the idea of them suppressing what I believe should be free speech, disclosing the information may infringe on their rights and prevent them from providing us with what we really want (faster release dates, EV-DO, etc.). I have to say that I support their decision IF AND ONLY IF it means that by holding out on the info they can be the first to provide cutting-edge technology at a reasonable price.

    As far as TC goes, my feelings are mixed. While I don’t think they should be bullied around (if in fact that is what happened), the reality is that lawyers are expensive. IMHO, I believe that lawyers intentionally drag things out and make things more complicated than necessary so that they can bill more hours. But, I digress. As darnell stated, anyone can sue anyone else for anything nowadays. It is for this reason that I subscribe to a legal service plan (similar to health insurance but for my legal needs) personally as well as for my business. This alone has eliminated many frivolous threats and provided me with a certain number of hours already pre-paid in defending myself against a suit. I would be happy to provide TC with the contact info on the plan if they PM me. Otherwise, while TC may be correct in what they are doing by posting the info, the carrier obviously has more money available upfront than TC does. In that case, it becomes economically smarter to comply and/or settle rather than to stick up for your rights. It’s like the old saying goes, “money talks and bullsh*t walks.”

    So, what really matters most to us? Is it that someone kept the info hush-hush? Or is it that we want to make sure that our needs / wants / desires are heard AND IMPLEMENTED, so that we don’t end up with another half-hearted effort like the T600? While the T600 is not perfect at any one thing, it is (IMO) the perfect solution for someone who wants the basic functionality of all things. I think our collective concern is that we want to have an outlet that ACKNOWLEDGES our desires for future product development instead of keeping us guessing or in the dark. If P1 can do this (either through TC or their own website) and show results in a poll-like manner, I think that would be a satisfactory compromise between the two camps, without necessarily revealing their trade secrets to the competition. It’s not enough for TC to do it on their own, because there’s no “warm-fuzzy” that P1 is even looking at the stuff.

    I think P1 should make the Ace a T600 Professional and rename the current device as the T600 Standard. They can even make the 610/camera-less device the T600 Basic or Corporate. This way, it doesn’t appear to be stealing customers away from their 600 model for the 700 model and still maximizes their current marketing efforts.

    Just my 2¢
  13. #54  
    My beef is only this. I need Wi-fi!! This is the main lacking piece for me that I use on a regular basis, and still have my Ipaq 3650 that I use only for that purpose. If the new TReo had Wi-fi I would be in business.
  14. #55  
    In any event, I'll be buying one the day of release.. just hope there's an upgrade program from P1 like there was from Handspring.
    I remember a short while ago, I was "invited" (via email) to take a survey about my Treo at by PalmOne. There were a number of questions geared toward how the 'upgrade program' influenced my decision to buy. Of course every time they asked about it, I always said it was a '10' or a 'strongly agree' that it influenced my decision...

    I am thinkin' they will provide an upgrade path.

  15. #56  
    Several sites, stuck within the confines of their NDAs, made no mention of this while their forums were buzzing with users posting their impressions and photos of the devices.
    As long as we can quote somebody else, (with a link to back it up), it has been our interpretation that we can post as much as is public, even while still under NDA. We can report it, but you are right, that it does prohibit us from making commentary about it.

    And while your seperations of news and reviewership amoung your staff seems great Scott - right now it's just me writing, it doesn't work with one person. My experience with NDA's have also been that with such a smal lstie - they're implied to cover the site, not just the person. We do not have anyone else at the time contributing. Marcus has stepped back, and now is just site owner (and store operator.. but and tc are seperate!). If you want to review stuff, give me a email:, and I'll set you up;

    It was not my decision to pull stuff - I was not involved in any of the conversations, and I do not know full details. Hence my vagueness. However two users saw through my post, and figured out what I (trying to make tc into a completely seperate editorial place) have been struggling with for the last couple of days. Good for you - I'm still going to be vague, but Marcus has a family to support from, along with paying for this site. You all know the info - if you don't the full article's is mirrored at - so why risk having a "relationship" broken (or canceled) that provides for a family?

    Seldomvisitor - I haven't started the failures of Treo investigation/article, but it's on my todo list.
    -Michael Ducker
    TreoCentral Staff
  16. #57  
    You are a scholar and a gentleman.

    JUst look out for the black helicopters after you publish that Treo Failures article...
  17. #58  
    miradu, don't let my fancy talk fool you. 90%+ of Tapland's behind-the-scenes work is done by me. I have two official unpaid staff who have written reviews, but they do it as time allows them. Same goes for another one or two folks who have contributed reviews or special reports of events. As I mentioned, my theory of trying to stay out of the "review business" and letting other folks handle it with the hopes that I wouldn't be bound by any NDAs they may sign has yet to be challenged/proven.

    I think you're doing a great job here (especially lately with your front page news picking up pace). When you run a professional looking site with a lot of traffic that, sadly, doesn't really produce a lot of income, you have the problem of having to deal with users who expect you to be running things like a professional business. My personal preference is that I don't like being bound by NDAs and would prefer to wait (if necessary) to find out about things when the general public does, but this is obviously an area where different people have very different opinions.

    Now THIS is the future of smartphones.
  18. #59  
  19. #60  
    miradu, yes, excellent article. I'd been reading about the ace for a month but could not find any details. glad i printed the article to PDF.

    did anyone else notice sprint is now offering an additional $100 off the T6 with a new activation? the promo runs until 7/31/04. i'll take a wild guess and say that on 8/1/04 the price will be lowered by $100 and by 9/30/04(?) we'll see the Treo 6XX. just my hunch.
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