[mattruby]

It would also be nice to have WiFi support as well as BT..

With BT, you can get a BT/WiFi bridge, and have both. But you would only get the BT max of 1Mbps out of the WiFi, regardless of the WiFi bandwidth. If the T600 SDIO bandwidth really is <5Mbps, then that won't matter much, as the WiFi would be bottlenecked at the slow SDIO bandwidth anyway.

..wonder if they get BT working if they can also make the WiFi work also.

There's some general framework code that the two share, as SDIO drivers for network access over radio transceivers, but WiFi and BT protocol stacks themselves are very different, and probably would account for at least 50% of the coding time, especially if they're reliable and support the full specs for proper interoperation with other devices. But opening the source of the framework certainly would speed development. And make more SDIO drivers more codeable, driving the market.

[gacajun]

Now that's one of the things I really like about TreoCentral...you can get knowledge answers to technical questions in good time....what a great website and user community! And mattruby, thanks for the reply.

[mowog]

OK, I'm in for $20.

Miradu, is there any way we can see how much has been pledged in the BT fund? I imagine if potential developers (and PalmOne, for that matter) see just how much money the community is willing to donate towards the BT cause, it would provide a greater incentive than just "we have a bounty"..

I'm disappointed about the lack of headset support, but if Conrad is correct and the SDIO hardware can't do it, well.. there's not much we can do about that. Still, looking forward to wireless sync and modem support

[CmdrGuard]

I just want to say this pledge system is very clever and exciting. I believe there have been successful bounties in the past for the first person who invents a certain desirable item. I think this bounty should be just as promising.

[miradu]

We're up to $750 right now. 7 people + treocentral have pledged money. I will write a counter tonight that will keep an updated total going.

[manorton]

Just back from a grueling day in the coal mines. I put in my $100.

We're up to $750 right now. 7 people + treocentral have pledged money. I will write a counter tonight that will keep an updated total going.

[manorton]

From your article Treo 600 Revealed

Handspring did not include Bluetooth into this device, but because of the SDIO slot it is an option in the future. Handspring told us that they are working with 3rd party companies to extend all the powers of the Treo to the Bluetooth card. This includes not only data synchronization like most cards, but the ability to use Bluetooth headsets .....

Who was the source at HandSpring that said SDIO support for Bluetooth headsets was possible? Michelle White, Product Manager for the Treo 600? Can we get a confirmation before writing it off?

Pledge form is up: https://treocentral.com/special_pages/bluetooth.html

Based on Conrad's advice, we are only going to require that the Treo be able to sync and transfer files through bluetooth. Anything else is a plus, as it may be physically impossible to use bluetooth on the Treo 600 for a headset, or use it for a wireless modem.

The bounty will expire on labor day: september 6 2004. TreoCentral will not charge your credit card unless a working application is completed. If you have quesitons email me. Anything we didn't cover that we should add to the announcement?

[treobk214]

id donate $50 to the cause. it would be a pretty big step for treocentral - would demonstrate a potent organization of guys willing to achieve a highly sought after goal for the treo 600.

[manorton]

Pledge form is up: https://treocentral.com/special_pages/bluetooth.html

id donate $50 to the cause. it would be a pretty big step for treocentral - would demonstrate a potent organization of guys willing to achieve a highly sought after goal for the treo 600.

[treobk214]

$50 in. bring that to an even $800.00

let's go treocentral - make it happen!

[treobk214]

im sure we have established here that wifi on the treo 600 is impossible, but guys, if it IS possible, let's try and go for that as well. bluetooth is great however I think wifi would drive home the 1 - 2 punch. id love to see the results of our donations bear fruit with both features being possible
if we provide enough incentive here can we make wifi happen or is that totally out of the realm of possibilty for treo 600s?.

[MikeRadio]

I have not read all the posts so please excuse me if I am repeating.

1) I need Bluetooth that will pair with my car. MANY new mid-upper and upper class cars and probably regular cars will come with Bluetooth built in as cell phone laws continue to not let you talk on the phone with it to the ear.

I need to be able to pair to the car.

2) This ENTIRE endeavor shows how rediculous big business is today. The PalmOne people should see there is a MJOR demand for Bluetooth, and should have a new phone ready to go that has it.

They won't lose... They will MAKE money... That is the idea isnt it? Supply and Demand. Well we demand and there is no supply.

Just rediculous how they don't see this.

3) I need mny SD card so unless you can make a 512 SD card with Bluetooth, then I can not put money into this kitty.

4) The next TREO wil for sure have bluetooth, unless they are really asleep at the wheel which I doubt, and I am sure we will see it sometime this year.. Until then, I will use my two phones and wait.

[gatreo600]

All I want is for my Treo to work with the bluetooth handsfree kit built in to my car. If someone can make it happen I will donate / pay for a driver. I want to stop using 2 phones. It just doesn't make sense to own one of the "best" phones out there and have to buy another phone just to get handsfree.

[mattruby]

im sure we have established here that wifi on the treo 600 is impossible, but guys, if it IS possible, let's try and go for that as well. bluetooth is great however I think wifi would drive home the 1 - 2 punch. id love to see the results of our donations bear fruit with both features being possible
if we provide enough incentive here can we make wifi happen or is that totally out of the realm of possibilty for treo 600s?.

It's a question of priorities: getting Bluetooth also gets you WiFi, thru a BT/WiFi bridge. If the SDIO port really is as slow as it appears, the WiFi speed would be too slow to really matter much, while BT would be OK. See this other post for details.

If you have a fast MMC, SD or SDIO card, test it and publish the bps transfer speed here. If your speed is consistently faster than 5Mbps, then maybe WiFi would be worth doing. But via the bridge is better, both in terms of getting a complete solution faster, and the power considerations.

[mattruby]

The bounty is getting sufficiently large that some specifics are in order. We need to detail the specs of the software we're buying with this bounty, so developers know what they're selling. Not just the tech specs, but the "business specs". Here's an attempted summary:

• Tech
  
  • Bluetooth 1.0 driver for Palm's Bluetooth SDIO card
  • >500Kbps transfer speed
  • Required profiles:
    
    • General Access
    • Service Discovery Application
    • Serial Port
    • Generic Object Exchange
    • File Transfer
    • Synchronization
    • LAN Access
    • Object Push
  • Bonus profiles:
    
    • Dial-Up Networking
    • Headset
• Biz
  
  • Price: $X (total of TC bounty payments at date of acceptance)
  • Open source
  
  
  • • all required code published to TreoCentral.com
    • compilable with publicly available tools (Palm SDK, gcc toolchain, etc)
    • BSD license (original source open, no further obligations by original developer or derivative developers)
  
  
  • Acceptance by at least 50% of bounty contributors (by headcount)
    
    • Runs on Treo 600
    • Connects with other BT devices
    • Tested OK on every required profile (unless not testable)

Some of these points might be flexible, depending on bounty contributors attitudes. Let's resolve these points by June 21, 2004, so developers don't have a moving target, and we know exactly what we're wishing for.

[manorton]

We were saying this when we were all using 300's. Don't hold your breath.

<snip>
4) The next TREO wil for sure have bluetooth, unless they are really asleep at the wheel which I doubt, and I am sure we will see it sometime this year.. Until then, I will use my two phones and wait.
</snip>

[RyanRife]

I would work on a bluetooth driver but multiple commercially available bluetooth SD card and drivers for PalmOS are suppose to come out sometime in the next couple months....it probably won't have the profile for a headset though. Later.

[frydog]

I hope the driver will support the Think Outside Bluetooth keyboard.

Anway, I am going to pledge $50 in hopes that it will.

[manorton]

I was thinking along the lines of Open Source too, but I'd rather have the drivers then not due to issues with open source code.

How many of us are really going to do anything with the source other than look at it? Yeah, we'll all stick out our chests and go "ME PROGRAMMER, NEED CODE!". But lets be realistic, one of the motivators would be that the bounty is potentially a small part of the money to be made from the drivers.

I want the drivers, I really don't care about the code.

Anyway, why aren't the general specs in the Bluetooth Bounty enough? Besides any developer can submit questions to the group if it's not clear enough.

The bounty is getting sufficiently large that some specifics are in order. We need to detail the specs of the software we're buying with this bounty, so developers know what they're selling. Not just the tech specs, but the "business specs". Here's an attempted summary:

• Tech
  
  • Bluetooth 1.0 driver for Palm's Bluetooth SDIO card
  • >500Kbps transfer speed
  • Required profiles:
    
    • General Access
    • Service Discovery Application
    • Serial Port
    • Generic Object Exchange
    • File Transfer
    • Synchronization
    • LAN Access
    • Object Push
  • Bonus profiles:
    
    • Dial-Up Networking
    • Headset
• Biz
  
  • Price: $X (total of TC bounty payments at date of acceptance)
  • Open source
  
  
  • • all required code published to TreoCentral.com
    • compilable with publicly available tools (Palm SDK, gcc toolchain, etc)
    • BSD license (original source open, no further obligations by original developer or derivative developers)
  
  
  • Acceptance by at least 50% of bounty contributors (by headcount)
    
    • Runs on Treo 600
    • Connects with other BT devices
    • Tested OK on every required profile (unless not testable)

Some of these points might be flexible, depending on bounty contributors attitudes. Let's resolve these points by June 21, 2004, so developers don't have a moving target, and we know exactly what we're wishing for.

[mattruby]

I was thinking along the lines of Open Source too, but I'd rather have the drivers then not due to issues with open source code.

How many of us are really going to do anything with the source other than look at it? Yeah, we'll all stick out our chests and go "ME PROGRAMMER, NEED CODE!". But lets be realistic, one of the motivators would be that the bounty is potentially a small part of the money to be made from the drivers.

I want the drivers, I really don't care about the code.

The developer can keep the code, and reuse it to make more money. Nothing stops them from doing that. We're a TreoCentral community, and since I expect the community as a whole to get the drivers, not just those paying to stimulate development, the developer gains nothing by keeping the source closed. Meanwhile, the open source will continue to stimulate BT and other driver development, which is good for everyone. The BSD license, unlike the GPL, does not require any further actions by anyone (even if they use the original source in a trivially derivative work, the source of which is then kept closed).

Anyway, why aren't the general specs in the Bluetooth Bounty enough? Besides any developer can submit questions to the group if it's not clear enough.

We will possibly have several contenders for the bounty. The first delivered might not work well enough. Developers benefit from a little active project management, especially in specifying acceptance criteria. Not only is it easier and more reliable for developers to write to a more specific spec, but it's more attractive to bounty contributors who know what we're getting. And we'll be able to compare our "homegrown" drivers to any that Palm actually might suddenly deliver. The TC driver might be better than the Palm one, even if takes a little longer. A specific spec will enable us to decide to continue to develop our own, or to fold our bounty because Palm has "won" - or possibly to send the bounty to Palm (unlikely to reward the teasing laggards, tho .