[SeldomVisitor]

You do star charting and music composition on your TREO!!?

[redshifted]

Originally posted by SeldomVisitor
You do star charting and music composition on your TREO!!?

I finally got my first SD card. Lots o' memory (for now)

EdK

[snerdy]

Originally posted by bcaslis
I feel compelled to comment.

You're being way to rational. Rant a little, duder. You'll feel better. (By "better" I mean, of course, "worse.")

Originally posted by redshifted
How about music composition and theory?

That's awesome. I was looking at music programs for my girlfriend the other day, there's definitely some nifty apps out there for this kind of thing. ...It makes me wish I was a musician as well, to tell the truth. Drawing apps on Palm suck! (Err... mainly because they don't allow for good import/export and resizing of images in standard file formats. DrawIt is cool, but it's only half-baked.)

As far as the infamous "wide selection" of Palm OS apps, it's becoming less true that the huge library of existing apps really benefits the users of any given Palm OS device. What I mean is: how much time do we all spend looking for apps that work with the 5-way navigator for the Treo? So that sort of limits things a little. Granted, there are still a ****-load of programs available, and I'd be surprised as all get-out if any other handheld platform had a similarly robust development community (although I guess it's possible).

I think Symbian OS is cool in that there is a version of Opera for those devices, but it certainly isn't going to have the kind of software library that Palm OS does (even if a lot of the Palm apps don't work properly or just basically suck). This problem seems like it will get somewhat worse with Symbian OS version 90 (I'm not sure if I've got that name right) as Nokia is apparently not licensing that platform.

All of this discussion aside, that P900 is one sexy little critter.

[mybabygs3]

Which is smaller of the two? as in height...

[bcaslis]

If you don't count the Treo antenna, then the P900 is slightly longer, very slightly narrower, and very slightly less thick. The Treo is certainly alot longer if you count the antenna. However the Treo is more rounded in the back so in your hand it kind of feels slightly smaller than the P900. The P900 is definitely lighter but not by a huge amount.

Originally posted by mybabygs3
Which is smaller of the two? as in height...

[Steve1496]

Originally posted by snerdy
This problem seems like it will get somewhat worse with Symbian OS version 90 (I'm not sure if I've got that name right) as Nokia is apparently not licensing that platform.

Nokia is, 7700

[kschoenberg]

Other than the keyboard this looks like a superior phone.
They even include a mail client!
As for the number of applications available for Palm vs. Symbian. Who cares? That argument has been used forever...and is meaningless. How many CP/M applications were there when MS-DOS was introduced?

The big, big, big item for me is the battery life.
If they're for real. The other phone makers should be ashamed.
The T600 is at best 20% of that.

16 hours of talk time?
20 days standby?

[bcaslis]

I don't know what the official specs for the P900 are, but I can tell you it has a smaller battery than the Treo (1200 vs 1800) and it seems (only a couple of days of comparison here) that the Treo (GSM) gets better battery life.

Originally posted by kschoenberg
If the battery life stats posted are for real...
buh bye Treo!

16 hours of talk time?
20 days standby?

[kschoenberg]

I edited my post to make it a little more coherent while the previous post commenting on it was being written.

Just to clear up any possible confusion.

...ken

[dpuza]

Naturally, the P900 is Bluetooth™-enabled, ...

Ouch... what a burn....

However, I agree with what's been stated above, over and over.
Without a keyboard, I wouldn't even give a second's consideration. Not even a fancy shmancy IR keyboard. Hahaha, an IR keyboard, think of that. How silly.

Speaking of silly...

"Hey guys! Come check out my brand-new Pentium 5 Computer!! It can play Doom 5 with its GeForce 64,000 video card. And, send emails to anyone, anywhere, instantly! Using... my... 10... key......... numpad......... sniff....." *runs and hides*

[markboy08]

Originally posted by BigTex
With all due respect, really I am serious, with iR keyboards avail for the various phones (palm os based) the thumbboard is not a crucial as it once was.

Originally posted by bcaslis
If you use the keyboard all day long, great the Treo it is. ...However, I use it primarily for phone, web, and data lookup. I retrieve email and messages, but don't spend a lot of time time sending them. I do however use a laptop (PowerBook G4 15" AL) alot. Having Bluetooth for synch, data transer, and wireles modem is a huge advantage

I think the divergence here is that we are analysing at least two distincly different sets of users and requirements.

I think that for a great majority of treocentral users the primary need is for a truly convergent portable device -- an all-in-one, pocketable device that can fulfill 80%+ of their communication/organization needs (phone, two-way email/messaging, web, pda). In my opinion a robust input device, i.e. thumboard, is absolutely crucial to acheiving these requirements.

For other users convergence is not a requirement. They may not require a full spectrum of functions, but rather be more focused on best-in-class capabilities on certain features (e.g. the high-res display or mult-megapixel camera crowds). Or, like the above posters, they may be perfectly happy to carry around multiple devices (e.g. keyboard, laptop). For these users there is no question that there are superior devices to the Treo for meeting their specific needs.

It is rare indeed to find a single solution in any space that is considered best-in-class for all needs -- "thats why they make chocolate and vanilla". My "no keyboard no deal" comment was targeted towards what I estimate to be the prevalent need in the treocentral community, but of course to each his own!

[mgauss]

Adding a thumboard to the P900 is an exercise that would take a competent engineer with a little Swordfish motivation about 4 minutes.

Don't think Sony Ericsson is not looking at the Palm operating system for the P900p

I sure hope Palm is comparing specs and realizing that if the Sony engineers took the technology in the P900 and married it to the technology in the UX50 and gave it a thumboard and a 2Mb camera they will have created the most expensive paperweight in the world: the 6.2 Oz treo 600.

Palm! Can you hear me? How long are you going to live in the 160 x 160 no voice no hires no BT no wifi no video world and expect to get top dollar?

I swear Palm has got us by the thumboard, and that is easily fixed.

[dpuza]

Originally posted by mgauss
Adding a thumboard to the P900 is an exercise that would take a competent engineer with a little Swordfish motivation about 4 minutes.

Don't think Sony Ericsson is not looking at the Palm operating system for the P900p

I sure hope Palm is comparing specs and realizing that if the Sony engineers took the technology in the P900 and married it to the technology in the UX50 and gave it a thumboard and a 2Mb camera they will have created the most expensive paperweight in the world: the 6.2 Oz treo 600.

Palm! Can you hear me? How long are you going to live in the 160 x 160 no voice no hires no BT no wifi no video world and expect to get top dollar?

I swear Palm has got us by the thumboard, and that is easily fixed.

Amen to that, brother! lol

The funny/crazy/unbelievable thing is that no competition has figured this simple fact out and implemented it. Yet.

And I mean NO competition. Not even one. I honestly don't believe it or understand it.

Loving my Treo since Oct. 9,
Dan

[SeldomVisitor]

> ...The funny/crazy/unbelievable thing is that no competition has
> figured this simple fact out and implemented it. Yet.
>
> And I mean NO competition. Not even one. I honestly don't
> believe it or understand it...

That is because you are looking at this from a very narrow tunnel-vision geek perspective rather than the wide-angle view of a business manager.

Clue 1: The Big Guys have been well-aware of QWERTY keyboards long before Handspring or even RIMM were.

Clue 2: The Big Guys can afford to do market studies and/or discard new phone models even before they're on sale.

Even here at TreoCentral posters right and left have said "The keyboard takes getting used to". Sure, they've gone ON to say "but now it's essential" but so what!?

When you're trying to sell something to someone you don't present them with something that will need "getting used to".

It doesn't MATTER how useful it is.

In the past I mentioned the "Ewwww" factor w.r.t. the keyboard on the TREO line. I wasn't kidding.

===

Historically many outrageously wonderful devices have died early deaths simply due to marketing decisions. You can BET the Big Guys have made some PURELY MARKETING decisions...

[dpuza]

That is because you are looking at this from a very narrow tunnel-vision geek perspective rather than the wide-angle view of a business manager.

Clue 1: The Big Guys have been well-aware of QWERTY keyboards long before Handspring or even RIMM were.

Clue 2: The Big Guys can afford to do market studies and/or discard new phone models even before they're on sale.

Even here at TreoCentral posters right and left have said "The keyboard takes getting used to". Sure, they've gone ON to say "but now it's essential" but so what!?

When you're trying to sell something to someone you don't present them with something that will need "getting used to".

It doesn't MATTER how useful it is.

In the past I mentioned the "Ewwww" factor w.r.t. the keyboard on the TREO line. I wasn't kidding.

In my experience, the keyboard did NOT take ANY getting used to. Granted, I AM a geek. But I ordered two Treos at the same time, one for me, one for my wife. She did not have any trouble with the keyboard AT ALL, and she is a "normal person", not a geek like me. In fact she loves it and thinks the keyboard and whole Treo deal is extremely useful and has thanked me many times for my 'purchasing decision'. She never would have even realized the existance of the Treo on her own.

My point is that the "Big Guys" are the enemy, holding us back from wonderful advances in technology, because THEY influence the decision of what is "marketable". My point is that "normal people" would find similar solutions EXTREMELY useful, only they don't KNOW about them because they haven't been MARKETED to them.

Different people have different needs. In my experience, a normal person that sees my treo has one of the following reactions:
- "THAT'S AMAZING! I'm going out and buying one right now!"
- "THAT'S AMAZING! But it's too expensive."
- "THAT'S AMAZING! But geeky."
- "That's geeky."
A thumboard on a phone would be very marketable to many, not all, normal people. You can't tell me that with reactions like that it's not marketable because it's too geeky and would take getting used to by normal people. Are you kidding me? My little sister would love to have a mini keyboard on her phone for text messaging. She is amazed by the functions of my Treo but wouldn't buy that model herself. The problems are:
(1) price
(2) people don't know the solution exists
(3) it exists ONLY in ONE expensive, geeky phone model.

Someday these marketing idiots will catch up and realize these things. Thumboards on phones will become commonplace and not 'luxury' or an 'experimental design for elite geeks'.

I guess its just one of the pains of being an 'early adopter'.

[kschoenberg]

Can someone explain to me how Sony can get 16 hours of talk time and 20 days of standby out of a phone.

The Sprint version of the T600 is lucky to get 2.5 hours of talk time.

...ken

[Cyril]

Originally posted by kschoenberg
Can someone explain to me how Sony can get 16 hours of talk time and 20 days of standby out of a phone.

The Sprint version of the T600 is lucky to get 2.5 hours of talk time.

...ken

You are comparing CDMA to GSM.

The GSM Treo 600 has about the same talk, battery life as that of the P900 (I think Sony's figures are somewhat generous, and not 'real-world' figures)

[TechDude]

It's funny that this just surfaced in the Treo Central forum. Less than a week ago a friend in my office sent me an email about this phone asking my what I thought about it.

The four bigest factors leaning in the P900's direction were:

1) TWO processors - WOW!
2) Better resolution
3) Can take video clips
4) Blue tooth integrated.

I know it has a much better battery life by the specs but that's not a big factor to me seeing as to how I usually plug it into the charger/cradel at some point every two days or so anyway.

Two huge factors it falls short on are:

1) No keyboard
2) Only expandable to 128MB of storage via the expansion card due to the Symbian OS and DUO technology. (According to other forums that I've read.)

It's a sleek looking device, and I'm jealous of the extra features, but the memory and keyboard are deffinitely a deal breaker for me. (I'm a little scared of the Symbian OS that I'm not familiar with also)

--TechDude

[Mr_A]

Have been reading this thread with a little interest - and I have one big question - why all this discussion about the camera on these devices.

Lets face it, they are all at a level of quality which makes them suitable for, well very little - which is why we have lots of people making and selling cameras.

Still or movie, what comes out of these devices has no lasting value no matter how you look at it. If you don't believe then try watching someones expression when they are shown the image that you put before them!

[kaffeen]

I like the concept of the P900 and some of the specs are better than the Treo, however, I'm wary of a Symbian OS and it's inherent limitations. As both a user AND programmer, I prefer the Palm OS over Symbian. The keyboard is a keeper too.

Besides, they don't make this for Sprint (my carrier of choice at the moment). Even if I did like the P900 over my Treo, which I do not, I don't really have a choice do I.