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  1. #21  
    I manage over 2000 songs on my PowerBook and iPod. The iPod also serves as a portable hard drive for back up etc. The 600 is great for a few songs on the go, but even with a 512 MB card it can't come close. Also the iPod's interface is much better.

    This Thursday 10.16.03 Apple will release it's Windows version of iTunes which will work seamlessly with the iPod.

    Here's a pic of my 600 vs. my iPod
    Attached Images Attached Images
    <body bgcolor="#ffffff">
    <p><font size="-2" color="#4684ff" face="Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular"><b>imageone</b></font><font size="-2" face="Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular"> &#x2022; current - <b>PowerBook G4 - Mac OS X - white iPod video 60GB - Treo 650 - 700p (Sprint)<br>
    </b></font><font size="-2" face="Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular">retired - Visor Deluxe - Visor Prism - Kyocera 6035 - Treo 300 - Treo 600 - Blackberry 7250</font></p>
  2. #22  
    The way I see it, my Treo is a tool. I am not going to waste all of my SD space with music files, and I am not going to sit at home every night picking and choosing what couple hours worth of music I will want to hear the next day.

    Only someone who has never used an iPod could think the Treo is useful as a music player

    Moreover, the Treo does not play AAC files, nor Protected AAC files. You will find that these are the norms for Mac iPod users, and when iTunes for Windows is released on Thursday, they will become the norms for all users.

    So I carry both and I am happy to do it.
  3. #23  
    HA! iTunes on Thursday! SWEET. So many companies doing too many great things this month! First the Treo 600, MusicMatch initiated their download program, Napster is coming back at the end of the month, and Itunes is comin to Windows. Not to mention all the PocketPCs being released.

    To post a response to this topic directly. I own an Ipod, and will *soon have a Treo 600. I doubt I will use the T600 as an MP3 player ever. I also own an Ipaq 1945, and I never use it for MP3 stuff. In reality, both devices serve different purposes. The IPOD is a music device - and I find the rest of it's features a joke for the most (like syncing your notes, weather, etc onto it). The calendar is nice if you want to set it up to be an alarm clock in the morning, but I wouldn't keep all my appts on an Ipod. The T600 on the other hand is an information based device. The treo excels at being a cell phone and data device. One of these days, it will be nice to have all the capabilities crammed into one device, but we will have to wait some more time for that! In reality, I suppose that I could probably keep a running playlist of the most recent songs in my music library on an SD card - which would be the songs that I am listening to the most on my Ipod right now (2-3 albums). The reality is, however, that I would never remember to keep up with some sort of daily playlist shuffle, or even weekly, and plus, my moods are different at any given moment. I can bust out the iPod, and listen to whatever song I have a "hankering" to listen to at the moment. What happens when I sync a bunch of songs to my SD card, only to not want to listen to them because I am not "in the mood" later. No, I am not a woman (just a joke ladies!), nor am I "moody" per se, but I do have a dynamic taste for music that changes too much to contain it on an SD card - maybe I could get hundreds of SD cards? The answer to this question is, well, it depends on your music habits. I think most flash based MP3 players are a waste of money to begin with ($200 for 256 MB player verse $278 for a 10 GB Ipod!). They are a nice extra on our PPCs, Palms, whatever, but not the primary reason to have the phone/pda.

    I will admit that I would rather the Treo 600 try to be a music manager, rather than the Ipod try to be a PDA (which is too funny to me!).

    I wonder what the future will call our convergence devices that are multimedia libraries/ communicators/ and digital cameras! PDA just doesn't work in my book.

    As another note, what WILL be interesting for the Treo 600 is the upcoming rhapsody mobile online music library (or whatever it is called: "Rhapsody 411" is it?). Hopefully Rhapsody won't be the only one to develop this idea. But once we get the cell phone data stream speed up a little higher (faster that 1xRTT), we will be able to stream music straight to our T600 or similair device! Now that is an interesting proposition! Just enter in the artist you want to hear, and BAM, it's starts streaming to your phone. Kind of like MusicMatch RadioMX for those who know what that is!

    BTW, my Ipod is the coolest gadget ever, and I am wondering if my Treo 600 will surpass it? We will see! (and I have owned a ton of gadgets!)

    Just my .02

  4. #24  
    Emotional? Not really, like I said, this is just my preference, and different people will have different priorities, but this is just what works for me. I don't see how that's emotional.

    It's all about what you need/expect/want from your hardware. From a battery perspective the iPod has an integrated MP3 decode DSP (PortalPlayer)--this means that you don't have a general-purpose CPU doing complex mathematics. Joint-stereo coding and huffman coding in parallel in hardware are cheap, they are slightly more taxing in software (esp in parallel/pseudo-parallel).

    This is maybe a bit ivory tower for this thread, but it seems relevant in making assumptions about battery life (don't flame me for making assumptions here, as I do not yet have the time or desire to do a real battery-life showdown between my T600 and my iPod, but maybe later...).

    Like I said, iPod floats my boat, but don't construe my comments as anything more than statements of my (some might call twisted) opinion. I completely understand that others will (and should) differ, refer to my original post.
  5. #25  
    My point about the Treo being nice for daily mp3 use is that - well - I can stick the Treo in my pocket, or clip it onto my waist if I want, and I'm done. Go out for drinks or whatever without a jacket or bag, and without two things clipped to a belt. Carrying headphones is a slight irritation but not that big a deal. It's an easy habit to get into, so if you happen to go to the coffee shop or library and decide to listen to music, it's there 100% of the time. With an iPod, you can do that only if you either always wear a jacket, always carry a bag, or are willing to clip two items to your belt.

    As a side note, I also have a nice digital point and shoot, a Canon PowerShot S50. 5 megapixels, and it does 3-minute videos with sound. If the Treo had a credible digital camera (say 2 megapixels and a flash), I'd be saying this same stuff - I no longer have to carry my S50 around since the Treo can fill most (not all) of my digicam needs. That doesn't mean that a 2 megapixel camera remotely compares with the S50, just that the majority of the time, it would mean that I wouldn't have to carry the S50 in my coat, which would be a nice plus.
  6.    #26  
    there's also a big diff bw killing an ipod batttery--no more music, that sucks--and killing yr treo battery: no music, no phone, no addresses, no datebook.

    when my treo arrives, if i use it as an mp3 player, i'll hoard my treo battery power much more than i do my ipod
  7. #27  
    Killing the Treo 600 battery will not affect the music, as they will be on SD cards. All of the other stuff would be restored as soon as you synced, so not necessarily a big deal. However, the odds of losing data are pretty low unless you're very careless. You get multiple warnings and then the device will shut off to preserve its last bit of battery. From that point, you probably have a day to charge it again before you lose data.
  8. #28  
    I agree wholeheartedly that the Treo is a great "ad-hoc" music solution. I won't argue with that assertion. I just don't feel it scales well beyond a 32MB-64MB card all too well, current software for Palm MP3 management doesn't match the iPod. For me, usability is critical. Form factor is a part of the usability equation, but is generally trumped by interface design and usability (most user-centered design folks would tend to agree).

    Perhaps it is time the MP3 software for Palm underwent a paradigm shift. Huge Flash cards are prevelant now, and people need the tools to manage them.

    Keep in mind, these are my opinions. Like I have said, there is no absolute right or wrong here, just different situations with different solutions. But what is constructive about this discourse is seeing what we value in our hardware/software, and hopefully developers take note of what we're saying!
    Last edited by bmustaf; 10/14/2003 at 02:57 PM.
  9. #29  
    Originally posted by neckface
    for the lucky duckies who've already got their treos:

    do you still use yr ipod?

    i live in NYC and take the subway everywhere and my headphones are constantly on. i know the diff bw a hd player like an ipod and a flash player like the treo. my question isn't technical; its behavioral. my question is this:

    (if you carried an ipod before you got yr treo) do you still find yrself carrying the ipod with you? or has the holy grail--no more than ONE little plastic box to clip to yr belt--been found?

    i use my ipod mainly as a portable hard drive (i.e store movies files etc) and rarely as an mp3 player, I use my treo as an MP3 player, but i still carry it with me.
    Treo 300, Treo 600 - Sprint

    I dream in code and TCP/IP sequence numbers.
  10.    #30  
    is there a reason that we're talking in terms of 32-64m instead of 256m cards? bc that would be a big diff for me

    as far as battery: i'm not worried about losing data, i'm worried about being without my phone!
  11. #31  
    Originally posted by snahabed

    Only someone who has never used an iPod could think the Treo is useful as a music player

    Moreover, the Treo does not play AAC files, nor Protected AAC files. You will find that these are the norms for Mac iPod users, and when iTunes for Windows is released on Thursday, they will become the norms for all users.

    I disagree, as the saying goes the right tool for the job. For some such as your noble self the Treo will never do. For others such as myself for whom the superior qualities of the iPod is wasted the fact that I can have a device that replaces 3-4 other devices itís great. Each to his own.

    And I do have an iPod
  12. #32  
    I use my Ipod for more than just music. I get audio books from Audible and those files are HUGE and are also in thier own format. For me that is the real differentiator.
  13. #33  
    I only used 32-64 as an example of how the landscape has changed. People can manage 32-64 MB cards (which used to be the cards most people bought due to cost restrictions), but now 256MB is at the same price point as 32 MB used to be at when SD first came out. As cards grow larger, and music libraries on them grow larger, you have a real usability issue at hand. The management of files as a collection grows is not linear, it becomes exponentially more difficult to manage as the size grows (from a human interface standpoint). This begs for a more advanced interface than a file browser/folder browser concept.

    I don't believe that a 256MB card will draw more power than a smaller card (atleast any measurable/appreciable differences). They all draw roughly the same, its just the difference in the addressable space. SD is non-volatile. There are certain cases where they MIGHT draw more, but well designed cards can scale to very high sizes without commensurate power needs.

    SD is also very low power, that is not the drain on the battery, its the MP3 decode process that is going to be the drain (how much, I don't know, but that is where the drain will be).

    Last edited by bmustaf; 10/14/2003 at 02:58 PM.
  14.    #34  
    i'm glad "64m" was historical context. i thought there might be some software limitation that i didn't know about.

    managing large collections of music does become difficult, but a well designed UI like iTunes takes most of the pain out of it.

    if i were to manage SD mp3s i'd use iTunes to make playlists and then transfer the files to an SD card with a cardreader. 64m or 1g, it wouldn't matter--not as long as i had iTunes.
  15. #35  
    I have a 3G iPod (20 GB) and love it...but I too would like to simplify how many gadgets I carry. I love my Treo 600 (get the Good software for your office if you can afford it).

    PocketTunes is alright...but not much to get excited about. I'd like to see a RealOne Mobile Player for Palm work with the Treo 600. Hopefully it will be developed where playlists can be downloaded with the mp3s to the Treo.

    My paradigm shift is's Raphasody service. I was resistant at first but it makes sense...subscribe to their service for $9.95/month and have access to the 400,000 songs in their catalog at any time. You can create your own playlists and share them and access the songs from any computer with their desktop software. Their new Wireless 411 service will allow streaming to phones. Sprint is listed as a partner. So this means that as long as you have data access one can stream a song or playlist anywhere you are without the hassle of moving mp3s, etc around. But if you want you can purchase tracks for $99 to burn your own CD.

    I'm really leaning toward selling my iPod and going with the Treo 600 only...for the time being. I wish Audible would hurry up and support the Treo 600 (Audible crashes when I play a book).

    Any thoughts?
  16.    #36  
    but rhapsody's not gonna do much for ppl who listen to any amt of indy music...

    now if i could stream my mp3 library a la itunes....THAT would be sweet
  17. #37  
    Just saw this on /., seems relevant:

    iPod == Audiophile quality device (when using AIFF)
  18. #38  
    Originally posted by 007in803
    PocketTunes is alright...but not much to get excited about. I'd like to see a RealOne Mobile Player for Palm work with the Treo 600. Hopefully it will be developed where playlists can be downloaded with the mp3s to the Treo.
    Well pocket tunes isn't the only available MP3 player for palms. Aeroplayer is another, and I'm sure we'll probably see even more if the Treo 600 really takes off. And updates to these programs could include more features and better browsing capabilities or whatever (which seem to be a lot of what the complaints are about in this thread).

    This thread talks about the RealOne player for mobile devices including some really confusing info about it on SprintPCS...

    I'm not an audiophile so I never even considered spending as much money as an iPod costs just to listen to music. I'm getting the Treo as a phone/PDA first...the capability to play MP3's is an added plus. I've already got a 256mb card I'll be using to do just that. As far as the storage issue goes, I compare it to my car stereo which has a 6 disk CD changer. A 256mb SD card will hold at least that (if not a bit more), which is fine by me. It all comes down to personal preference and the decision on carrying more than one device.

    Originally posted by wombat2
    You can get headphones that collapse into a case about the size of a tin of Altoids. It's annoying to also have an adapter, but they are tiny - could be left plugged into the phone, or MIGHT fit in the headphone case.
    Or you can just get the Treo stereo headphones once they are offered on HS's site. No need for an adapter.

    Originally posted by Neckface
    - battery life. why doesn't the treo have a removable battery?!? this seems like such a no-brainer!
    As close as we get to that is the battery sled which isn't out yet either, but will do the job if you don't mind a clunky attachment.
  19. #39  
    Nice tip about the T600 headphones. I'll probably get some of those. I wonder if they fold into a hardshell case?

    I have a $10 set of headphones that I bought from Radio Shack that rolls onto a spindle inside a small plastic case. They're ideal for carrying around all the time, although they are not audiophile quality. But then, I'm not an audiophile.
  20. #40  
    Originally posted by Bereuter
    I use my Ipod for more than just music. I get audio books from Audible and those files are HUGE and are also in thier own format. For me that is the real differentiator.
    Audible has a PalmOS5 player, that happens to crash my Treo600.
    Until they fix that (and I'm not holding my breath), I will translate their files to mono, low variable bitrate MP3 and get my fix. A 7hr title is 42MB or so.

    That + 300MB of MP3 music, an encyclopeida, a dictionary and some pictures fit wtih room to spare on a 512M SD card.

    I have a Rio Riot 20GB hard-disk based player that's about full, and listen to music using various PC-based clients too. The Riot gets lots of music for the car. and Rio have been promising Rio Riot Audible support for a painfully long time.

    I have a 192MB Rio 900 I've been using for Audible content in the car. My wife and I commute together and listen to stuff on the way to work.

    I'll use the Treo for Audible content that she'd be bored with, while exercising, driving alone or when I'm stuck somewhere. I'll use the Mp3ness of the Treo while working from time-to-time. rules
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