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  1. #121  
    Quote Originally Posted by rnayfield View Post
    I also have this problem. However I think it might be an example of a larger problem with the verizon 700p.

    Why? Because I see the problem when I am not doing SMS.

    I seem to have similar lockups around these sort of events:
    incoming sms
    incoming sms rcpt (vz customers only)
    incoming voicemail indicator
    going between cells
    (maybe only between 1xRTT and EVDO cells)
    at no-signal times

    The last two are probably due to my environment - I am on a train 100 miles a day and using the phone the whole time. I notice hangs even when I am not using SMS. I also go in and out of the NYC subways often and see plenty of hangs during periods of no signal.

    Thus, I think this might be related to the phone/radio firmware and certain types of operations - with SMS being the easiest to replicate (not everybody has places they can go to guarantee no signal, or can switch between dozens of towers while typing the whole time).

    Just a guess, but it seems to make sense. The hangs seem to be the same at any one of these times. It is interesting that some hangs seem to buffer keys (aka once the lockup is over the typed keys come out) but most of the lockups require re-typing whatever was typed during the lockup.
    I've experienced the "subway lockup problem" on a Sprint Treo 600. It occurs even without SMS. My guess is that the radio not realizing it has to choose a new tower is probably blocked on an asyncronous event of loosing signal and then having the radio only poll every so often for a new tower signal. In the normal scenario of driving on open roadways at highway speeds, the timeout is often enough. Coming out of the subway from underground, if the poll interval is one or two minutes, this would be more noticible. If the OS were not blocked this would probably be bearable. I figured since not that many people ride subways, that Palm probably woundn't care about fixing the problem. Since you are in NYC, is it a high-speed train or just a long message being typed over the course of 3 or more cells? I guess we figured we'd be off of Garnet by now. oh well!

    I'd say there has been an OS problem here all along. It seems to be a timing problem where some series of trigger and response events are expected to happen within a given time-window, and when they don't, the OS hangs until a longer timeout is reached. I still think, for Garnet, the best fixes would be workarounds at the application level. Sorry I don't really know much about how the Palm platform works. I'm more of a tester than a developer, so I try to find all the common pieces of a problem, and after doing that, I usually have enough for the developer to try a few things. Sometimes I guess right and other times I'm way off, but usually I give the developer enough to find the problem. Hopefully someone from Palm is listening (since they probably wrote the SMS app as well as being originally resposible for the O/S.

    regards, -- Bob
    I'm both super! ... and a doer!
  2. #122  
    Verizon and palm win.

    The fone just sucks.

    Im getting a Q.

    I have determined the best way to avoid the lockup issue is not to keep texts.

    Plain and simple.

    Its truly a shame. The 700 has great potential
  3. #123  
    Quote Originally Posted by jreagles21 View Post
    u can save your text database by using treodesktop.
    Thanks to mention my importing tool...

    I worked around the Treo SMS databases, in the last years, and I well know all the database structures (actually 3 versions) used by Treo devices, since the first Treo 180 (by Handspring).

    The first older structure (Treo 180/270/300) is only a sequantial database: no thread chat available, no sorting options... the SMS app on the Treo 270/300 only shows data in sequence order.

    The second (middle) structure, developed by Handspring for the Treo 600, store SMS data in multiple databases: one main database and more "child" databases...
    A "child" database only contains all the incoming/outgoing SMS's for a single contact.
    The "main" database contains the a pointer to the childs, and also store spare SMS's (only 1 sms x contact).

    I believe that Handspring engineers worked wery well writing this database, because this structure is VERY performant: showing a thread, only needs to open and sequentially read a child database!

    The only one defect of this structure was that a full sequential SMS "un-threaded" view was not possible, because data was not stored for this purpose, but only for thread view.

    This was the last wonderful job of Handspring... after this one, the Palm take all the Treo project and the Handspring itself in its company (as you well knows)...

    Palm engineers worked on the new Treo 650 software, and the SMS app for the new Treo 650 device was entirely rewritten.

    The newest (Treo 650/700p) database structure is very complicated: a single database store both SMS and MMS, and a lot of pointers appeared in the records. The builtin Treo 650/700p SMS app can show data in both thread and unthread mode, but storing data in the (bigger) database is ever a sequential operation.

    So, in the Treo 650/700, showing a thread means that the SMS app needs to scroll the entire database, reading a lot of pointer inside the records, and build the output on the Treo screen.

    Moreover, in this new structure SMS and MMS are merged, and frequently an MMS has a bigger size then a SMS (audio, photo) so the database exponentially grown!

    Changing the SMS view from thread to no thread, means that the SMS app must to manage and rewrite a lot of pointers, rebuilding the entire database, working for minutes and minutes...

    I believe that Palm engineers made a very dirty job, doing so.

    In my long experience with Treo models (180, 270, 600 and 650) I can say the the best structure was the last one of Handspring... unfortunately not more available on the new Treo handhelds!

    I own a Treo 600 and a Treo 650... and I'm currently working on the Treo 600! I highly prefere it.

    Of course, my importing tool (Treodesktop) can read and import data from any database structure, old or new.

    Thanks to all of you, for reading since here

    Bruno Naglieri - Rome (Italy)
    Treodesktop developer
  4. #124  
    your welcome
    Google is my Best Friend

    The Building of the Biggest Software Site EVER!
  5. #125  
    this issue needs to be addressed. it is incredibly annoying.
  6. #126  
    I think something needs to be filed against Palm. The problem exhists, palm does not seem acknowledge the fact that the problem exhists. Is it possible to get a petition going against palm? Anyone down for a class action lawsuite? What alternatives exhist for consumer protection??
  7.    #127  
    Quote Originally Posted by djbetterly View Post
    I think something needs to be filed against Palm...What alternatives exhist for consumer protection??

    I see a shiny new stylus or crisp, clear screen protector in your future...for pain and suffering...
  8. #128  
    I noticed another odd thing that happens. While riding in the subways here in new york, my 700P will consistently go from no signal to full signal, then lockup for about 5-10 seconds and go straight back to no signal. It does that constantly! Very annoying!
  9. #129  
    i've experienced this.
  10. #130  
    Try this
    Delete butler,
    Delete any alarm manager
    Delete Scheduler
    Delete Profile
    Delete any ring tone managers
    Delete chatter
    Delete any other programs that run in the background

    Voola! No more SMS lockups.
    Pilot 1000 -> Pilot 5000 ->Palm Pilot Professional -> HP 620LX -> TRG Pro -> Palm V -> Palm Vx -> Palm M505 -> Palm i705 -> Palm Tungsten|T -> Samsung i500 -> Treo 600->Treo 650 -> Treo 600-> Treo 700p ->Centro ->Treo 800w + Redfly C8n -> Palm Pre -> HP Touchpad
    R.I.P Palm 1996-2011
  11.    #131  
    Quote Originally Posted by rc46 View Post
    Try this
    Delete butler,
    Delete any alarm manager
    Delete Scheduler
    Delete Profile
    Delete any ring tone managers
    Delete chatter
    Delete any other programs that run in the background

    Voola! No more SMS lockups.
    Not. An accumulation of SMS messages on a virginal Verizon 700p will result in the lockup - it is NOT related to third party apps.

    It was GREAT to see 700wx users get their SMS fix - NOW WHERE IS OUR'S? Haven't Palm users suffered with this bug long enough?
  12. #132  
    Double Not!

    I got my "brand new" Verizon 700P, sent 50 text messages to my wife's Verizon 650 and...

    "1" Quick, "2" Quick, "3" Quick, "48" Slower, "49" Sloower, "50" Slooowerr

    So, NOTHING was installed, NOTHING was synced, NOTHING was added.

    Standard "Treo700P-1.06-VZW" build phone, Did the activation to my number, did the TXT test and STILL got delays!!!

  13. #133  
    Want to try you own testing?

    1) Backup your Treo!!!!!
    2) Hard-Boot & erase your Treo
    3) Copy over "Messages Database" and "SMS Messages2" ONLY.
    4) Text message and watch the delay!
    5) Restore your Treo to get back to work...

    PS> If you have no clue what you are doing, then DON'T try this.
  14.    #134  
    I think that we have fairly well established that the SMS lockup issue will not be going away short of a firmware upgrade. No one claiming to have overcome the issue has much, if any credibility...I think some of these well meaning people TRY to be helpful but are merely confirming what we already knew - that without a lengthy message string there is no lockup.
  15. #135  
    My colleague and I just got 700p's as replacements for our 650p models. Verizon is our carrier. Not only are we having SMS lockups. His are much worse than mine, it can be 3 minutes for him, during which time he'll lose phone calls and txts from other people. Mine have never been longer than 30 seconds. Just as bad, when we send messages to each other, some are coming out garbled and completely unreadable. I might also add that neither of us is using Versamail or Wireless Sync.

    The Treo 650p wasn't a perfect phone; we had far more reboots so far (though 1.05a firmware seemed to lessen it slightly). However, we had no SMS text issues. I think Palm needs to know that if you're selling a business tool, you should sell business-level reliability.
  16. #136  
    Quote Originally Posted by LoneWolf15 View Post
    I think Palm needs to know that if you're selling a business tool, you should sell business-level reliability.
    I agree. I have tried all the recommendations as listed above. The surefire way for me is to copy the threads onto a memo, and delete all the messages in the thread. Anymore than 50 messages in any cumulative thread causes the lockups.

    For the Subway rider, I too am in NYC, with Verizon, 700P and experience the same issues.

    Its annoying to xfer all the threads over, but I have gotten used to doing it twice a day to prevent the buildups.

    Palm..... PLEASE LISTEN TO US!!!!!!!!!!
  17. #137  
    No lockups with a Sprint 700p, even when forcing roaming to use Verizon's network.
  18.    #138  
    Quote Originally Posted by nightlight View Post
    No lockups with a Sprint 700p, even when forcing roaming to use Verizon's network.

    The lockups only occur when you receive a text message from a Verizon user and are on the Verizon system, as the lockup seems to key on the arrival of delivery confirmations which you won't receive sending and receiving on the Sprint network.
  19. #139  
    On a side note, I made a plea to Hobbyist software (the developer of such fine tools as Butler, Technician, Initiate, and others) to see if he could integrate a fix for this into Butler/Technician.

    The posting is here. So, if you want to add to that thread to stimulate a developer to look at this.

    The main thought I had was...

    1) log all actions that the Treo does during an SMS message to find out exactly where in the code it hangs.
    2) Then place a hook into the OS, to switch out before it reaches one of the bad SMS calls.
    3) Switch to anything for 1 sec, even a picture of a
    4) Switch back to SMS application.
    5) Pay developer.

    Yeah, I know the BEST solution is for Palm to fix this bug, but until then...

  20.    #140  
    Anything like that would require access to the sourcecode to the Palm SMS/MMS software, which I don't think will happen...
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