[samab]

Umm, what? You don't think RIM shipping a device with half-baked software (missing features) was a decision to get to market faster? If they wanted to get it right the first time, they would have waited to release the Playbook until it was comparable to other offerings.

Sure RIM tried to get to the market faster. But they aren't willing to ship with a hacked-up OS and crippled first party apps. They are missing features left and right --- but they aren't half-baked with the features that they shipped.

[sinsin07]

If I am guilty, then everybody that answered my comments on this thread also are guilty as well. I am ok with that.

I have not seen any other post on this thread where a poster made a comment on sales numbers, then turned around in another post and question sales numbers.

Only you have that distinction.

[samab]

I have not seen any other post on this thread where a poster made a comment on sales numbers, then turned around in another post and question sales numbers.

Only you have that distinction.

I said from the start that ALL the numbers can't be trusted. That is the only distinction. All of you guys are guilty of selectively believing certain numbers are true.

[jtfolden]

Sure RIM tried to get to the market faster. But they aren't willing to ship with a hacked-up OS and crippled first party apps. They are missing features left and right --- but they aren't half-baked with the features that they shipped.

That comment is spinning faster than my dryer.

If apps are missing basic features, left and right, and indeed whole apps are nowhere to be seen (all things that are standard on other platforms - even dead ones like the TP) - that makes the PB a poster-child for being half-baked.

"It was perfect but mostly useless" doesn't seem like a very practical, financially sound, goal to aim for...

[sinsin07]

I said from the start that ALL the numbers can't be trusted. That is the only distinction. All of you guys are guilty of selectively believing certain numbers are true.

I never said what I believed. I just look at what the co-CEO says and what was said in the earnings call. That's all the confirmation that is required.

[samab]

That comment is spinning faster than my dryer.

If apps are missing basic features, left and right, and indeed whole apps are nowhere to be seen (all things that are standard on other platforms - even dead ones like the TP) - that makes the PB a poster-child for being half-baked.

"It was perfect but mostly useless" doesn't seem like a very practical, financially sound, goal to aim for...

They are missing apps. But the apps that are present are not missing basic features.

And so what if they are missing features left and right --- it won't have changed any sales figures. It's not suddenly a native email client lifted the sales figures for all those honeycomb tablets.

[sinsin07]

Sure RIM tried to get to the market faster. But they aren't willing to ship with a hacked-up OS and crippled first party apps. They are missing features left and right --- but they aren't half-baked with the features that they shipped.

The android player is a desperate half baked feature. Buy into QNX so I can run Android?

[samab]

I never said what I believed. I just look at what the co-CEO says and what was said in the earnings call. That's all the confirmation that is required.

And what does that mean actually? It just means that all the other tablet makers didn't get asked that question and because they are not listed in the US, they aren't required to say anything.

[jtfolden]

I said from the start that ALL the numbers can't be trusted. That is the only distinction. All of you guys are guilty of selectively believing certain numbers are true.

What numbers did I selectively believe were true? I've enumerated just a few of the many signs that the PB was a bomb at retail (indeed, RIM can't dump them fast enough at this point) and others have quoted directly from RIM reps... There's a preponderance of signs in this direction and virtually nothing in the reverse.

[sinsin07]

They are missing apps. But the apps that are present are not missing basic features.

And so what if they are missing features left and right --- it won't have changed any sales figures. It's not suddenly a native email client lifted the sales figures for all those honeycomb tablets.

Again, honeycomb is not in the enterprise/goverment the way RIM is. A PIM may have made a difference in corporate/goverment uptake, instead of the kludgy method that is implemented now, the "bridge". The only bridge consumer's care about is the one you have to cross.

[samab]

The android player is a desperate half baked feature. Buy into QNX so I can run Android?

It is more than HP did. HP didn't even give out free tablets to anyone who writes a TouchPad app.

Actually if they do it right --- it may become the dream Android version for developers to target.

You are going to have 60-70 million blackberry phones every year --- basically only 3 basic models (a slab, a traditional blackberry and a slider), all using the same Qualcomm chip. Don't need to check if your app would work on a million different model with a million different screen side, CPU, GPU...

[samab]

Again, honeycomb is not in the enterprise/goverment the way RIM is. A PIM may have made a difference in corporate/goverment uptake, instead of the kludgy method that is implemented now, the "bridge". The only bridge consumer's care about is the one you have to cross.

Bridge is actually very useful for consumers --- because you have a free tether with your blackberry that the carriers can't charge money on. You can access the internet with bridge. All your Playbook apps can use the internet with bridge.

[jtfolden]

They are missing apps. But the apps that are present are not missing basic features.

Are you kidding me?

Some people are running the v2 beta *just* to be able to do something simple like search a PDF file or listen to .wav audio, among others...

And so what if they are missing features left and right --- it won't have changed any sales figures. It's not suddenly a native email client lifted the sales figures for all those honeycomb tablets.

How do you know? I think Android tablets, as a whole, would have sold far worse with standard apps for email and calendaring missing.

On the other hand, since you are now comparing the PB to all Honeycomb tablets, collectively, there's no doubt that Honecomb tablets have sold far more than the PB.

[sinsin07]

Bridge is actually very useful for consumers --- because you have a free tether with your blackberry that the carriers can't charge money on. You can access the internet with bridge. All your Playbook apps can use the internet with bridge.

The usefulness is dubious if you don't own a Blackberry. A tablet needs to stand on it's own, no crutches. This is where the Playbook fails dramatically.

[jtfolden]

Actually if they do it right --- it may become the dream Android version for developers to target.

You must be talking about the Fire now...

[sinsin07]

It is more than HP did. HP didn't even give out free tablets to anyone who writes a TouchPad app.

So what? That does not negate the fact that it smacks of desperation. To prop up their lacking app department they turn to a competitor OS.

[jtfolden]

Bridge is actually very useful for consumers --- because you have a free tether with your blackberry that the carriers can't charge money on. You can access the internet with bridge. All your Playbook apps can use the internet with bridge.

A) Not everyone owns a BB and it seems like fewer and fewer people are going to be buying them as they fall farther behind. Additionally, this hasn't enticed many BB users to buy the tablet apparently.

B) the bridge may be free but you are ignoring the cost of the data plan on the phone to begin with... it's not "free". I know a lot of people who carry a dumb phone and an iPad with 3G and the plan is much cheaper.

C) people aren't going to buy a BB phone just to get a PB. RIM would be better off giving away PB's with BB phones if they really wanted to get entrenched in a given market.

[fsx100]

It really depends on your usage.

You bought a Playbook that is cheaper than buying a Kindle Fire --- with more storage and more apps available (Amazon is vaguely talking about "several thousand" Kindle Fire apps).

a) You are right about it depending on my usage. Having had my TP 32GB for a few MONTHS now, I can tell you that my usage goes:

*Email* (w/Calendar), Web, Books/PDF's/Magazines, Movies, Games, and "other", in that order. And this includes getting my work MS Exchange email on it as well. Its for me to "consume"/manage information 90-95%, and "create" info 5-10%.

Without the basic PIM functions included (and I dont have a BB, to be able to use the BB Bridge to get those), the BB Playbook becomes an expensive media player for me.

(Yes, I know the 2.0 update is "due" in Feb, with that functionality, but I am not willing to wait that long to gamble and see what that update is like. I have no idea if BB is going to allow "independent" email on the BB PB, or "force" it to go thru their BB Services, AND charge a monthly fee for that "privilege".)

b) As far as APPS go, I pretty much have all the apps I use on a regular basis under WebOS.

AND, and this was key for me, I now have the option of Dual-Booting CM7 (Android) to use any of the Android apps that I cant use/find under WebOS.

(Yes, I know/understand that BB PB OS 2.0 will have some kind Android "emulator" for running Android apps under PB 2.0, BUT as I understand it, ALL Android apps will have to be "gotten" from the BB PB App Market. There will be, as I understand it, NO option to use the Android Market, Amazon Market, OR Sideloading of Android Apps. Someone correct me if I am wrong)

c) I am *not* comparing the 7" BB PB 32GB ($174+tax) to a 7" Kindle Fire ($199), BUT am comparing it to my 10" TP 32GB ($149+tax).

With the extra screen space, and currently MUCH better functionality than the BB PB, I am keeping my TP's and selling the BB PB.

[_StephenBB81]

There are plenty of people interested in a tablet that *DON'T* have a Blackberry phone. People want to be able to access their email on their tablets without having to use a web browser. Your excuse doesn't explain away the lack of apps for mail, calendar, etc, for these potential buyers as every other comparable tablet has them.

RIM have made themselves look the fool by not only shipping an unfinished device but by failing to fill in major holes. There's a reason they've struggled to stuff the channel with 700k units and moved virtually none of them on to consumers until fire sales started springing up.

Some of the original buyers of the PB purchased them with the expectation that RIM would be providing updates to cover its shortcoming mere weeks after purchase. Now it will be a YEAR by the time they get them, assuming that date holds.

With all due respect his post explained perfectly the reason
RIM Launched the PlayBook as "BlackBerry Amplified" The PlayBook was Launched with the intention of being a companion device, because the market didn't like that idea does not detract from that was the ORIGINAL purpose of the BlackBerry PlayBook
RIM must think first of their existing user base, then look at expanding, looking at their existing user base, rather than Breaking BIS/BES they left off Native email and calendar, which did allow them to become the first consumer tablet approved by FIPS.

I feel bad for users who Purchased the PlayBook on Promises, buy a product for what it does, not what the future could have in store for it.

[_StephenBB81]

FROM WHAT I UNDERSTAND,

the CONS are: the BB App World has an even SMALLER number of BB PB apps than the TP does, and there isnt any "native" email app (dumb move), as the main drawbacks. Screen size is 1024 x 600, so a bit smaller than the TP.

the PROS are: that BB is still going to support the PB moving forward, AND is coming out with an update to the OS in Feb that will have a) much better email/calendaring support, and b) some level of native android app support. And its much smaller and portable the TP (about half the weight).

Your feedback is welcome (besides the useless "anything else but WebOS sucks etc" comments).

Your CONS addressed
BB App World is pretty small, but growing every day, every time I browse it I find new apps I didn't see before, not to say I download them, but I see them

NO Native email, and there wont be Native email to February, If this IS a deal breaker, the PlayBook purchase at this time is not for you, You can access webmail very nicely on the browser, or you must bridge with a BlackBerry, but seeing as we are on PreCentral I'll assume the latter isn't plausible.

Screen Resolution on the PlayBook is currently unmatched IMO in the tablet space, yes the resolution is a little less, but the Pixels per inch on the PlayBook are fantastic, as well as being like most BlackBerry devices, the veiwability in Bight light is fantastic.

Your PRO's Addressed
YES! RIM is planning to continue support, on Monday this week they held a conference in Toronto Ontario reaffirming the commitment to the PlayBook as well as showing off much of PlayBook OS2, with Native email and calendar, the Calendar was the first time I've ever been impressed with a BlackBerry Calendar, which has been imo the biggest weakness BlackBerry has for a Business user.

Native Android Support is kinda a hmmmm here, They require devs to repackage their Android Apps, and load them to App World (Side loading is available) this is not a hard process but it will limit which apps are available, and as it stands today Android 3.0 Apps wont be supported out of the gate. Still many people using the PlayBook Beta 2.0 which is available for download to the would be hacker/hobbyist have loaded some Key Android Apps onto their PlayBook, I can't comment on this much as my PlayBook has become quite crucial for me so risking it being down for a day and not really having the time to try and fix it I've been sticking to official updates like the one that came today.

The Size of the PlayBook is fantastic, I carry it inconspicuously in my front left pocket of my suit pants, All major brands CK, VanHussen, Alfred Sung, Harry Rosen, all easily accommodate the Playbook in pant sizes 32" waist + (assuming you don't have rugby player thighs), the device is easily palmed in a single hand which makes sharing information on it with people around you a breeze, no more needing them to huddle over your shoulder.


Now for my Pro's and Con's list

CON's
Single launching of apps: This seems to be a tablet con in general, but my big complaint is only being able to launch 1 instance of excel at a time, there is a work around to get a second launched, but never a 3rd,

Charge time: The PlayBook on a 2h flight charging via inboard USB will only charge about 40%, where as any BlackBerry device will be fully charged in a fraction of the time, making the PlayBook require some planning to keep it fully charged for day to day use on the road (redundant if you consistently are home or in hotels and have the available space to plug all gadgets in)

Shape: The squareness of the PlayBook is beautiful in landscape view, but when typing in portrait view, the corners are a little too protruding, I wish for a slightly more rounded corner and a reduction in the bezel size by 1/8th of an inch all around to make it a more attractive size
PRO's
Ultra Portability: I am able to never be without my PlayBook during business hours, it is always in my pocket, I don't want into a room with full hands, I can address whom ever I see and shake hands without shuffling things when using the device it is easily palmed in 1 hand while typing with the other, I can hold it out to show people the screen while doing so,

Presentation MODE: When giving a Powerpoint and connecting the PlayBook to a screen or projector I am able to use my PlayBook for my notes on the presentation while displaying the powerpoint on the screen, the PlayBook was the first tablet to offer this, not sure if others have followed suit, it is nice not having a clone of the PlayBook on the big screen
NO Native email: This is a Pro to me, because of my work, I do not want to be giving someone my tablet to use and having my email on it, right now the PlayBook is just a media box until I bridge it with my BlackBerry to get access to all of my important information and protected information. I know this is a con to many others, and that is why this is MY list

Games: I have not been much of a gamer since leaving university in 2002, a few games have come and gone and I've enjoyed them, and when I got the PlayBook is was purely as a business device, I used it for presentations the same day I purchased it, but I discovered, NEED4Speed, and found myself playing it when I had down time, and looking forward to getting back at it until I had unlocked and upgraded every single car available, I still play it the odd time, now there are many more games, Madden football, SpiderMan(SOOO MUCH FUN), and many many more, E/A Games seems to be working very hard at bringing game content to the PlayBook, and the small size of the device makes it a perfect gaming tool, and having a 12' MicroHDMI cable means plugging the PlayBook into the Big TV and playing Need for speed on the big screen whilst steering with the PlayBook itself.

Gestures > Buttons


Be sure to give the PlayBook a chance, lucky you are coming from the Touchpad, so some gestures are already native, and the cards like interface you know as well, The portability of the PlayBook, with some silly games, and it's document support you will find it is a great companion on the go.