View Poll Results: Who Will Be Getting The iPad 2?

268. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes

    53 19.78%
  • No

    78 29.10%
  • Hold Out for HP TouchPad

    137 51.12%
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  1. #441  
    How do ANY of you know which processor is going to be faster? Have you guys matched both of these processors up and ran benchmark tests on them? If so, please let me see the results.

    Also, it's not fair to compare a finished product/OS with a product/OS that is still months from completion. They aren't gonna release the TouchPad with far from completed software. When they both are out, THEN talk about speed. And even then, whichever one is faster STILL doesn't prove which CPU is better as this also relies heavily on the OS.

    With that said though, even if they completely finish and optimize webOS 3.0 on time and release it by June, I seriously doubt its gonna be faster than iPad 2.
  2. #442  
    Quote Originally Posted by WhoAmI View Post
    Yup, the TouchPad is going to be very late and "dead on arrival" as far as the consumer market is concerned.
    Uncle Leo gave a nice speech about HP wanting to become one of the cool kids. That's probably been Leo's dream his entire life. But it's not the dream of HP's Board of Driectors.

    HP doesn't even care about the consumer phone or tablet markets at this point. They are dipping their toes in the water, still in the process of gearing up development, because they see potential in the phone and tablet markets to support their PC and printer divisions, especially enterprise sales. They also see the potential for tablets to take a growing slice out of the laptop market.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ulairi View Post
    ... HP will need to price match Apple. THey do have the scale in order to make pricing competitive. ...
    HP does not have a strong history of competing on price. HP might even decide to not even try to compete with the iPad. HP might choose to price the TouchPad based on what enterprise customers will pay for security, multitasking, and better enterprise e-mail.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ulairi View Post
    ... The differentiator of the TouchPad is webOS and security. ...
    Exactly. Ulairi's comment was brilliant. It explains that the TouchPad's failure to dominate the iPad isn't by mistake, and isn't a failure by HP. It's simlpy that HP and Apple have different target markets.

    Of course, the folks inside Palm are going to act like it's business as usual, like they want to take back the consumer smartphone market. But HP has made very clear that they were going after webOS, not Palm as a whole. And they wanted primarily to supplement and support existing product lines.

    Quit listening to fluff speeches and look at what HP puts in writing. HP - United States | HP INDUSTRY ANALYST RELATIONS If nothing else, read the 2010 Annual Report, which covers the Palm acquisition and everything else that happened in 2010, as well as future plans. Then come back and report on the huge discussion of the importance to HP's future of consumer smartphones and tablets.
    - Bubba
  3. rumz's Avatar
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    Can you imagine someone going to an electronics store and deciding between the 2 by trying to figure out which one was faster? One would have significant performance issues to be ruled out.

    I certainly take more into consideration than just "which one is faster". Speed is good, but it's not everything.
  4. #444  
    Quote Originally Posted by gbp View Post
    Back to the topic,
    Can anyone chime in with the difference in real world performance between a 1 GHz ARM dual core to 1.2 GHz Qualcom Dual core ?
    A snapdragon (1st gen Qualcomm arm v7 ) processor is binary compatible to an ARM v7 but it is a better implementation of it. This implementation allows it to be clocked much higher than normal Arm v7 implementation. This is teh reason why first gen snapdragon was available at 1 GHz (Nexus 1) way before hummingbird (samsung's 1GHz ) showed up in ipad, iphone 4 and galaxy S devices. Ti's implementation arrived in August with Droid-x.

    Qualcomm made some tweaks to the first generation snapdragon and released the 2nd generation devices around the same time as Droid-x (tmobile G2). This time the clock speeds were reversed i.e. MSM 7230 was released at 800 MHz while Hummingbird/Ti 3460 were released at 1 GHz . However, the additional tweaks alongwith a better graphics chip (adreno 205) allowed t-mobile G2 to outperform most other devices with higher speed chips.

    Touchpad is going to have the 3rd generation snapdragon with an even better graphics core than 2nd generation (Adreno 220 Vs Adreno 205). In terms of actual performance numbers (for the whole SOC i.e CPU + GPU), here is the order

    Ti3440 (original Droid, Palm Pre) < iphone 3Gs (samsung APL0298C05) < snapdragon (Nexus 1, HTC EVO) == Apple A4 800 MHz (iphone 4) < Hummingbird (Galaxy S, iPad) ~ Qualcomm MSM7230 800 MHz (Tmobile-G2) < MSM 8255 1 GHz (HTC Desire HD)< Qualcomm MSM 8655 1.4 GHz (Pre 3) ~ ORion Galaxy S2 ~ Tegra 2 (Atrix) < Ti4430 (playbook) < Qualcomm's 3rd generation dual core snapdragon with Adreno 220 at 1.2 GHz (touchpad) <Tegra 3 (announced to be available at teh end of the year)

    There is an MSM 7230 variant that is running at 1 GHz which should be on par with Qualcomm MSM 8x55 series.

    Initial tests show samsung's Orion dual core to be slightly less powerful than tegra 2 overall.

    Tegra 2 has a slower GPU and no SSE unit compared to Hummingbird but has better optimizations in software (drivers).

    On paper MSM7230 at 800 MHz is theoretically not as powerful as Hummingbird at 1GHz but real world tests prove that it not only holds its own but is actually better at some tasks.

    Based on performance of single core 2nd gen Cortex A8 processors it is safe to assume a 1.2 GHz 3rd generation snapdragon (dual core running at 1.2 GHz ) is going to be much faster than a dual core 1 GHz, run of the mill Cortex A9 implementation (Tegra 2, Samsung Orion).

    Again, the best test is when both devices have the same software stack (OS, version, build, resolution etc.) which is not always possible.
    Last edited by sapient2k7; 03/02/2011 at 04:34 PM. Reason: correction
  5. #445  
    Quote Originally Posted by ChickenMan View Post
    How do ANY of you know which processor is going to be faster? Have you guys matched both of these processors up and ran benchmark tests on them? If so, please let me see the results.

    Also, it's not fair to compare a finished product/OS with a product/OS that is still months from completion. They aren't gonna release the TouchPad with far from completed software. When they both are out, THEN talk about speed. And even then, whichever one is faster STILL doesn't prove which CPU is better as this also relies heavily on the OS.

    With that said though, even if they completely finish and optimize webOS 3.0 on time and release it by June, I seriously doubt its gonna be faster than iPad 2.
    While it may not be fair to compare, comparisons/decisions are going to be made with the facts/information that has been given up to this point.
  6. #446  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kupe View Post
    And a few weeks after the TouchPad finally limps into the marketplace, Apple will be announcing the iPad3! The tablet market is a fast moving train and HP is standing at the station watching it fly by...
    Wait! What? HP made it to the train station? Last I read, they were still carpooling over to the station and scheduled to arrive sometime this summer.
  7. #447  
    Quote Originally Posted by CGK View Post
    Will we see a desperate lurch to bring the touchpad to market sooner?
    I think you have to seriously consider it if it's at all possible. But honestly i think if they could bring it to market on Feb 9th they would have. I don't think HP is trying to be last i think they are just playing catch up. they may want to but may not be able to.

    but i still firmly believe that's not enough. you put all three on a shelf next to each other, touchpad, xoom (or other android tab), & ipad, and i think ipad wins hands down. Because of, the feel, the look, the plethora of apps (though android is catching up), the plethora of specialty apps FAA OKs iPad for Pilots’ Charts | Autopia | I mean they've got the government saying using ipads is fine, and the military, and police, and doctors, etc all along with consumers. I don't see that kind of penetration for the competiton yet. And not only that you got the consumer side. Where most of the others are just offering email, ebook readers, and maybe a music player, they are offering the wealth of custom apps and games but also a media delivery platform of music and video downloads, rentals, streaming etc.

    so if i was HP i'd be looking to in some way match those. Maybe partner with Amazon to deliver an integrated delivery of video downloads, netflix style streaming, video rental. and not just say an amazon app. I mean an HP store, with amazon name on it but taking a backseat. I'd be striving to make an hp experience that people identify. If black is the color scheme then everything is black. all the hardware all the interface etc. And as i've said before i'd be willing to pay millions to the about 100 major companies to get them to make apps. not small developers i mean major companies. Just to try and get some momentum because i haven't seen a major company release a webos app in maybe a year. Now maybe my opinion of what is major may differ but either way it's surely an area they can improve. but i think HP has a bit of work to do in the tablet space.
  8. #448  
    Quote Originally Posted by rumz View Post
    Hell, I'm sure HP's already working on a successor to the TouchPad, in addition to other form factors.
    Then they should skip the TP and focus on it's successor. My time machine is just as broken as everyone else's but I'm predicting a massive disappointment in TouchPad sales.
  9. #449  
    I would also like to point out that a single core 1.4 GHz device can actually outperform a dual core 1 GHz device based on how optimized the software stack is. Going from single core to dual core typically performance benefits are anywhere from 120%-170% depending on the type of work. A 1.4 GHz device can win on an average with no need to optimize for dual core.
  10. #450  
    Specs are cool and the iPad 2 is certainly no slouch in that department but people seem to be overlooking some of the software that's exclusive to the iPad. Half of iLife 11 is going to be available on this thing with as few compromises made as possible. This is the kind of stuff that trumps things like "Touch To Share" when it comes to picking a tablet.
  11. Spinfusor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rumz View Post
    I have a question: Did Apple actually give a speed spec? I only saw in the slides "up to 2x as fast" and "A5" and "dual core".
    Yes. The iPad 2 specs page says that the cores are running at 1GHz.
    "Visits? Well that would indicate visitors."
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  12. #452  
    I hope HP has learned a few valuable lessons here:

    1) Don't have some big media event unless you're ready to deliver a product. It only gives the competition an idea of what you're doing and then lets consumers compare your feature set to each product that gets released first.

    2) Don't think a me too strategy is going to be competitive. If you're going to compete in the space, you better deliver something KILLER. Apple already has a massive loyal user base and the hurdle to climb is one of image too -- so you better do something more than touch to share. Nobody gets usability at this level except us nerds so stop pushing it over competitors.

    3) Don't think you can price your product more than the iPad and still make big numbers. You have enough of a hill to climb. Price point will be the nail in the coffin. Especially now that people can get new iPad 1s for $399 and even less for refurbished. Now everyone will get one.

    Honestly I am not sure that anyone is going to be able to catch Apple for quite a while unless some real innovation emerges. Apple innovates every time, delivers rapidly, and has the mindshare... I don't love the iPad but if I were to choose I'd pick the device I could DO the most on if price is not the deciding factor. Ironically, the reason I used to buy PCs over Macs was always that I get more apps that I needed to use for a PC. Now Apple has changed the paradigm with iOS and everyone's trying to catch up.
  13. #453  
    I waited for Feb 9 for the Touch Pad. Nothing til "summer". Today I hear the iPad2 is shipping in about one week. Sold. Oh, yeah, and it has apps that are currently available.
  14. #454  
    Quote Originally Posted by ADGrant View Post
    The A5 running iOS will be faster in real world performance than the Qualcom running WebOS.
    Yes, there is no magic though. iOS does very little background stuff compared to webOS which is a true multitasking OS. Also, iOS GUI has been fully hardware accelerated since the beginning and for webOS it was an afterthought (same as Android) . webOS 3.0 will be the first one to be hardware accelerated (similar to honeycomb) .
  15. #455  
    After Looking @ the Ipad2 I now have seen all of the competition and it makes me more excited about what HP can do w/ the touchpad. I figured the touchpad would be coutclassed in the hardware division but it isn't. It does lack a rearfacing camera which I wish was there just in case. But to me the only thing the touchpad needs is a different back (that plastic back cover just looks cheap and it only looks nice when no one has touched it). And some decent apps apple with imovie and garage band is probably going to lock up producers and artist. If th HP uses it marketing push to make @least 1 competitive app in every category I think we'll win.
  16. cgk
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    What benefits do people get from tps unless they intend to spend almost a thousand bucks on a phone and a tablet? It gets even more worthless when you consider that many consumers will buy a tablet while under contract for their phone.

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  17. #457  
    For those questioning the A5 dual-core vs. the 1.4 GHz Snapdraggon: Grand Central Dispatch - Mac OS X Technology Overview - Apple Developer – This technology is also used in iOS.
  18. #458  
    Quote Originally Posted by pokchop2a View Post
    Now that Apple has announced the iPad 1.5 (I mean iPad 2) HP needs to come out with some announcements of their own. First and foremost they are going to need to announce pricing on the Touchpad. If they could get it on the shelves for $450 that would be awesome but they are going to need to at least price it at $499. Secondly, they are going to have to announce a concrete release date and soon. If the Touchpad were to launch within the first two weeks of June that would be great. I don't think people are going to rush to this next generation iPad like they have in the past. There is just not enough new features there to carry it. If they can do these two things I think that they will grab everyones attention. In some ways it was kind of a great move to wait until the iPad 2 had been announced so that they can now create a second tidal wave of information to the public. They got a lot of attention on February 9th, and now they have the capability to get some more if they can announce something that is going to be really competitive in pricing and specs. And we can now all see that spec wise, the Touchpad will hold it's own against other tablets. Now we are stuck with the waiting game from HP. It's like they are in a huge game of chess. They made the first move, Apple made theirs, now it's HP's turn again.
    Apple is not doing anything in response to HP. You make it sound like Apple actually cares at this point what HP and other tablet makers are up to. They don't.

    IMHO - HP will not come in under the iPad2 price. Watch.
  19. cgk
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    I sort of like this fantasy that HP are engaged in a tense game of strategy rather that they announced a tablet with no apps no price and carrier support.

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  20. #460  
    HP has until March 11th to tell me what their "We are going to make it right for Pre- users" is going to be otherwise I am set on getting an iPad 2. I am tired of waiting. I will stick to the Pre- until Pre3 comes out but I need/want a tablet.

    Few quick notes:

    -Apple announces and delivers within 2 weeks. Not 6 months like HP
    -Why wait 6 months for a BETA webOS 3.0 again to go through bugs etc with hardly any App support. When I drop 500 on a tablet, I wanna enjoy it, not wait again for apps to be released.
    -I love palm. I dont like Apple. But the iPad2 is eveything I need at a good price with all the Apps I need. I dont like iOS but I hate waiting endlessly even more

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