[Buddy1969]

I just got my Pre3 repaired, so: yes, they are still supported (and the Pre3 was not even officially sold in Austria, where I am from. I bought it in Germany)
Any company has to keep their warranty. The devices are still sold (i.e. you can still get the Pre3 on Amazon here in Europe), so there are still new devices with warranty on them.

But it is true: the HP WebOS Phones are running out. As of now, we don't know exactly where HP (respectively the company "Gram" which is the outsourced WebOS branch of HP) is going with the new version OpenWebOS.
We just know, they won't support the legacy devices.

But then again: we have the best of the best Communities. The guys from WebOS Internals are working their heels off to provide us with what is called "WebOS Community Edition" (WebOS CE) which is basically WebOS containing parts of OpenWebOS which can be patched via Preware soon, at least - for now - on the Touchpad.

So yes again, you can still hope for some WebOS CE on a Pre, but don't ask me what the chances are.

It might be a bit risky to buy a WebOS device atm, but as I know (and have owned) a lot of other platforms I must say, I don't know any better OS yet, when it comes to usability (cards, multitasking, setting right at the related app, etc...) and service integration (synergy).
And I don't miss an app yet.

So, is it too late to buy an HP WebOS device? I think that's difficult to answer. HP has no more interest in the platform, but the community keeps it alive. And as long as the community keeps the platform alive, the devices are still usable.

If you got time, I would tell you to wait for the first OpenWebOS Port to an Android device. We don't know yet which these are going to be.
If you need the device now and buy a Pre2, I presume you might have fun with the device for at least a year, maybe more.

So far my 2€cents

[johnnygewitter]

3) The HP catalog looks like an old haunted towns(like if appolocapse had just happened), its empty and it has no useful apps and whatever its left is no longer relevant.

Now that's a little exaggerated. There are plenty of useful apps, which even get regular updates.
Also haven't you been all over webOS a few months ago? Why the suggestion to stay away at all costs now?
Can't say if a webOS phone is the right thing for the OP, but it's not like the Pre 3 is a POS device that falls apart after two weeks of use and nothing works software-wise. Not at all. Also, warranties have to be honored, discontinued or not.

[johncc]

I had Pre-, bought a Touchpad and an EU Pre 3. My carrier is moving to the 850 band, which means I won't have 3G on the Pre 3. My solution will be to buy an AT&T Pre 3 if I can. I guess that tells you what I think about the functionality of webOS phones. :-)

[levander]

1) The WebOS phones are getting old, if something breaks or whatever you no longer could find someone to repair it or spare parts.
2) No more software updates are coming anymore(so whatever bugs you encounter within the WebOS 2.0, you stuck with it) and of course it no longer offers support from no-one(from HP nor devs).
3) The HP catalog looks like an old haunted towns(like if appolocapse had just happened), its empty and it has no useful apps and whatever its left is no longer relevant.
4) While you could enjoy using the operating system(we once liked WebOS) with its intelligent multitasking abilities, using the WebOS browser among other things its a hair pulling experience.
5) That OpenWebOS which everyone has been salivating for years, it will not be supported on your device(even if you spend money on $400 dollars Palm Pre 3)

Using the same numbers you used, to respond to each point.

1.) I am worried about that. My American Express credit card doubles the warranty, but when the phone is still under the original manufacturers warranty... was glad some people responded saying they got work done.
2.) No more updates is an advantage when you're hacking. You hack the iPhone, then they update the operating system, then you better hope you're not really busy because you got to re-hack everything.
3.) Everything I think a phone needs to do with in my first few posts in this thread.It was only the "nice to haves" that a few of them weren't done. I'll never be able to buy 100's of dollars woth of smurf-berries on a webOS phone, but who cares.
4.) Thanks for telling me the web browser sucks. that's a little important. but I rarely use it on my phone now. Notice ai didn't even mention that in my early posts in this thread, whether or not webOS had a browser. Still, not having a good web browser, that's a little eerie
5.) I'm interested in what the phone can do today, not 5 years from now. don't care about OpenWebOS. I'm looking at buying something a few months from now. not a few years from now.

[laingman]

After using my friend's galaxy s2 for the past week I have to say that there's not much there to make me give up my pre2.

it takes effort to hold on to the thing and ice cream sandwich is not all that. In fact I think their implementation of cards is a fail, much prefer the icons they had before than the new vertical cards.

[levander]

On the other hand there is no real need to turn of wifi on webOS, if you are outside. I experimented with that and never managed to get a significant runtime improvement, just as side note.

By "runtime improvement", did you mean speed like responsiveness of the phone?

The purpose of turning off Wifi on Android phones isn't to make the phone faster, it's to preserve battery life.

[levander]

Why you came around WebOS? Do they demand a physical keyboard?

It's a cheap way to get what my parents need done.

I eventually want them on iPhones, but as of now the jailbreaking to enable tethering, I don't think that's doable for them. I've seen too many people complaining about updates coming down and breaking their hacks. so they have to go back and re-hack everything. I'm not available to keep rehacking their phones enough for then. And tethering is one of the main things they want. They travel a lot.

I know these webOS phones aren't the most advanced phones out there, but they're on feature phones (not smart-phones) now. That's basically what this will be for them, a really good feature phone.

Navit works fine on 2.2.4 Veer and Pre3.

You think it'll work on a Pre2, with whatever the latest version of webOS is for that phone?

[levander]

AFAIKAFAIKAFAIK $there$ $is$ $no$ $way$ $in$ $webOS$ $to$ $get$ $to$ $the$ $cell$ $ID$ $of$ $the$ $network$. $So$ $to$ $do$ $anything$ $smart$ $based$ $on$ $the$ $location$, $GPS$ $is$ $your$ $only$ $hope$. $There$ $is$ $a$ $homebrew$ $app$ $called$ &$quot$;$modeswitcher$&$quot$; $which$ $offers$ $A$ $LOT$ $of$ $possibilities$: Mode Switcher | webOS Nation

Having it switch modes based on GPS locationn, is that murder on the battery?

Seems like it would constantly be reading GPS signals, so constantly using the GPS radio, so constantly killing the battery.

[Buddy1969]

...You think it'll work on a Pre2, with whatever the latest version of webOS is for that phone?

I think there is 2.2.4 for Pre2 as well, if not OTA, then with some WebOS Doctor file...


That's the nice thing about WebOS: if it's not done by HP/Palm, it's available through the community

[dignitary]

Can't say if a webOS phone is the right thing for the OP, but it's not like the Pre 3 is a POS device that falls apart after two weeks of use and nothing works software-wise. Not at all. Also, warranties have to be honored, discontinued or not.

In the U.S. the Pre 3 was never officially released, so no, they don't have to honor a warranty that was never offered. The units that made it out through unofficial channels were the same ones rejected by the carriers when HP discontinued webOS devices, plain and simple, so they ended up sitting in the warehouse. The units made it out by employees of HP (and other unofficial means) who were able to pick up large numbers of the devices to sell them at a much higher price than they purchased them for to people who were willing to pay upwards of $500 per Pre 3 last year.

There's a reason why some Pre 3 owners have bought 2, 3, and even 4 units--in case something goes wrong with the others. HP wants nothing to do with Pre 3 units in the U.S. and those owners are well aware they're supporting a phone that HP itself refused to support after the carriers themselves refused shipment.

Anyone with an AT&T or Verizon Pre 3 is pretty much out of luck if any one part of it breaks (except the battery), and those spare parts aren't exactly easy to come by in the market. In fact, selling each part of a disassembled Pre 3 separately would be worth more on the market than a couple complete devices--that's how rare the spare parts are to come by.

[Buddy1969]

In the U.S. the Pre 3 was never officially released, so no, they don't have to honor a warranty that was never offered. ....

I am quite sure, you could (and maybe still can) buy a Pre3 via amazon, even in the U.S.
Just saying...

ps: and the Pre3 was not available in Austria as well. I bought it in Germany and still got it repaired.

[dignitary]

I am quite sure, you could (and maybe still can) buy a Pre3 via amazon, even in the U.S.
Just saying...

ps: and the Pre3 was not available in Austria as well. I bought it in Germany and still got it repaired.

Because HP Europe actually released the Pre 3 there, so you were able to get it repaired there. A U.S. Pre 3 can't be shipped to the EU for repair. It'll be refused just like it would here in the U.S..

The Pre 3 units being sold on Amazon aren't from Amazon; they're from third-parties that got stock from unofficial channels without HP blessing. Again, there is absolutely no warranty, and there are plenty of posts here from users that broke their Pre 3 devices that got refused repair service from HP in the U.S. for that reason.

Please stop misinforming potential buyers in the U.S.; it only makes this community look bad when something goes wrong.

[Buddy1969]

...

The Pre 3 units being sold on Amazon aren't from Amazon; they're from third-parties that got stock from unofficial channels without HP blessing. Again, there is absolutely no warranty, and there are plenty of posts here from users that broke their Pre 3 devices that got refused repair service from HP in the U.S. for that reason.
...

Unless customer rights in the U.S. are really that much worse than in other countries, the vendor is always liable and has to give warranty for whatever product he sells.

But then again, I guess, In the U.S. everything is possible ... being the land of unlimited possibilities and all ...
*shrugs*

[johnnygewitter]

I believe it if you say that a broken Pre 3 will be refused by HP USA, since I'm not an US citizen and know nothing about the laws there, but out of curiosity I had a look at amazon.com and shouldn't there at least be a notice that there's no warranty whatsoever? What if someone who knows nothing about the whole webOS / HP situation just stumbles upon the Pre 3 on amazon and decides to buy it - tough luck?

[Buddy1969]

Yeah, no. It doesn't work like that here. If the original manufacturer never officially released the device, then they don't have to do anything to support it. And that's how it should be. If some guy is selling them on eBay, he's not the one offering warranties--nobody is--so he isn't liable.

...

Ok, so this really IS different in the US.
If I would own an old car, that isn't manufactured anymore or even was never sold in my country (i.e. an old Packard) and I would sell it privately to some other guy, even then I am liable for a time (I think it's 6 months, but don't nail me) because it is my duty to make sure, I sell this car in the condition that has been agreed ar the time.
So if I know, that the headlights do not work, I have to tell the guy and he will probably pay less for the car. But then I am not liable for it.
If I do not tell him about it and he finds out about it later, I am liable to pay him refund or repair the damage.
I am liable, because I am the one doing business. I am liable because the buyer relies on me when he buy something and needs some security that he can believe me, what I tell him.

So there really seems to be a difference.

This brings up an interesting question. If someone in America buys a Pre3 from an UK oder other european vendor, do american customer rights or european customer rights apply??

[dignitary]

Unless customer rights in the U.S. are really that much worse than in other countries, the vendor is always liable and has to give warranty for whatever product he sells.

Yeah, no. It doesn't work like that here. If the original manufacturer never officially released the device, then they don't have to do anything to support it. And that's how it should be. If some guy is selling them on eBay, he's not the one offering warranties--nobody is--so he isn't liable.

I believe it if you say that a broken Pre 3 will be refused by HP USA, since I'm not an US citizen and know nothing about the laws there, but out of curiosity I had a look at amazon.com and shouldn't there at least be a notice that there's no warranty whatsoever? What if someone who knows nothing about the whole webOS / HP situation just stumbles upon the Pre 3 on amazon and decides to buy it - tough luck?

You'd want to talk to him since it's not my job to dictate what his business practices should be when it comes to disclosing the warranty situation. It would be wise that he did, though, but he might not even realize that HP won't service the phone if it breaks. In his case, it would be tough luck if someone broke their Pre 3 purchased from him and needed to get it repaired under a warranty that didn't even exist in the first place. That's also the risk a Pre 3 buyer takes if they aren't diligent enough to ask the seller for more information before spending that much money knowing it was never an officially released device, though.

For all of these reasons plus plenty of others with the hardware and software, I could never recommend anyone buy a Pre 3 as expensive as it is unless they have the patience of a saint and don't mind poor(er) app selection than the Pre/Pre2 along with random things failing on their devices with no ability to get them repaired. And with far less software support than other webOS devices and and hardly any spare parts to be found anywhere if it does fail, no less.

It's a recipe for buyers' remorse with a dash of self-loathing--or a heaping tablespoon of self-delusion if you honestly think it's a great, modern device--if I've ever seen one. I see Pre 3s being advertised on Twitter by unhappy hardcore webOS folks moving away from the platform every few days as of late thanks to its problems and the presumable lack of Open webOS support.

Putting it straight, if you want a stable device for the long term, the Pre 3 is probably one of the poorest choices you could possibly ever make; it's a device for the hardest of the hardcore that don't seem to care that spending that much money on an unprotected device for the sake of having the "latest"--and completely unsupported--webOS device is just plain friggin' crazytown. I only wish I had that kind of cash to spend on things I can't depend on, because I'd spend it on much wiser things than a Pre 3.

If you don't believe me, just read the Pre 3 forum here along with the bug report thread in there and make up your own mind; there are a lot more very detailed complaints than overall compliments around there for the device. Worse, the compliments about the device to potential buyers sound like they're just pumping up the device because they want to see new webOS or Pre 3 users rather than being honest about its actual performance. At times, I'll even see someone complaining in one thread about the device and talking it up to a potential new user in another.

If you want to keep tweaking a device every few days to optimize its performance and don't mind the time sink involved, go ahead and buy a Pre 3 until it fails you to a point where either you can't recover from or it's angered you so much that you just don't want to deal with it or webOS anymore as a result.

[Buddy1969]

cool, my answer post has been added BEFORE the posting I refered to and quoted from ... lol

[dignitary]

This brings up an interesting question. If someone in America buys a Pre3 from an UK oder other european vendor, do american customer rights or european customer rights apply??

• If an American bought a UK Pre 3 and tried to get it repaired by HP America, it would be refused.
  
• If an American bought a UK Pre 3 and tried to get it repaired by HP UK, it would be refused.
  
• If someone in Britain (or nearby) bought a UK Pre 3 and tried to get it repaired by HP UK, it would be repaired within the warranty window.
  
• If someone in Britain (or nearby) bought a UK Pre 3 and tried to get it repaired by HP America, it would be refused.
• If someone in Britain (or nearby) bought a U.S. Pre 3 and tried to get it repaired by HP America, it would be refused.
• If someone in Britain (or nearby) bought a U.S. Pre 3 and tried to get it repaired by HP UK, it would be refused.

Simple as that based on previous posts over the past year that I've read. It simply won't get repaired unless your device and residence are within the region. This is due to companies in different countries not wanting to have to deal with each others' consumer protection laws. It makes sense because it can become very complicated rather quickly with international legal liabilities and corporate law and such.

cool, my answer post has been added BEFORE the posting I refered to and quoted from ... lol

Yeah, I edited to clarify a few points. Whoops!

Regardless, I hope it helps people to understand why buying a Pre 3 here in America is really not a good move unless you have the money to handle failures on your own. It has far too many problems that potentially require serious warranty support to make it a worthwhile purchase. Europeans got rather lucky having an official release because they have a warranty HP is obligated to uphold. Americans are pretty much out of luck if they buy one, and for a very imperfect device, it's nor a smart purchase at all on this side of the pond.

[Buddy1969]

That might all be true, only I do not buy at HP (HP Germany did not want to sell an Austrian like me any WebOS device). I buy at Amazon.de (Amazon Germany)
Amazon.de delivers. And if the device is broken, I send it back to Amazon.de
Or I buy at a german Mediamarkt. If the device is broken I return it to german Mediamarkt.
And they, by selling the device to me, have entered a contract which includes the customer rights as regulated by the laws of the respective country (in my example Germany) or respectively of the EU.

So I guess, if you are able to buy a Pre3 from german Amazon (ok, you have to know german and you have to be happy with a qwertz keyboard) then you would have a partner who should give you warranty as well.
Or if you need an english Shop and qwerty keyboard, you might be happy with Amazon.co.uk.
If the device is broken you should be able to return it to Amazon.co.uk again. THEY are your businesspartners, not HP.

I know that this works for me, cause HP never sold devices in Austria and I bought mine at a Mediamarkt in Germany.
I even got support from Palm-Chat!! I had my device repaired twice already (ordered via Palm Chat, picked up by DHL and returned within a week), even though HP never sold any devices in Austria (not even to the members of HP-Austria themselves)...

So this is not a "general warranty" thing, this has to be something special about customer rights in the US, I guess. Hence my confusion.

[nichtwirklich]

The seller (if it is a company) must offer a warranty of one year. But zou cannot force them to repair or replace a broken device. They are free to refund you.

On ebay Germany last week was usb cable for the veer. It was at about 25eur/30usd and it was running for two more days... Just the cable