[allen832008]

So far I have been very impressed with the way that Meg Whitman handled the open source initiative. However, I am curious to see how involved and how invested that HP will be long-term. On that note, I think they should release what would essentially be the Nexus line for webOS. It should be a developer device, either made inside HP, or by a hand-picked manufacturer, to show that they seriously want this platform to succeed. The last device they officially released globally was the Pre 2. They need to help shape what the next version of webOS should look like on all devices, and we haven't seen that on phones yet, just the Touchpad. What do you guys think?

[eblade]

Odds of a cell carrier embracing anything HP ever makes again: Pretty close to none. Will take years and/or -lots- of cash to get any carrier to talk to them again.

[cgk]

They should but they will not - moreover, what expertise and capacity do they have internally to make it and equally why would someone externally what to do it? Android is currently a raising tide so people are happy to jump aboard the 'life-raft', WebOS is not.

[allen832008]

Odds of a cell carrier embracing anything HP ever makes again: Pretty close to none. Will take years and/or -lots- of cash to get any carrier to talk to them again.

Do they need that much support from the carriers? If you release it like the original Nexus, I wouldn't think it would take much other than getting the radios approved to work on the proper networks?

[allen832008]

They should but they will not - moreover, what expertise and capacity do they have internally to make it and equally why would someone externally what to do it? Android is currently a raising tide so people are happy to jump aboard the 'life-raft', WebOS is not.

I think there are enough of Palm's employees left that they could produce a slab concept that they surely already had in the pipeline and just update the specs to be compatible with LTE on the 3 big carriers. It doesn't have to be a ground breaking device, but a show of good faith to the community and to potential manufacturers that HP is still on board.

[jcmarcos]

Sorry to spoil the fun but what's wrong in taking a nice Android phone and put webOS in it? Is it just to have the HP badge on it?

[cgk]

Sorry to spoil the fun but what's wrong in taking a nice Android phone and put webOS in it? Is it just to have the HP badge on it?

Nothing wrong with it but that's just a cute hobbyist thing it's not going to make the platform attractive to developers or OEMs.

[allen832008]

Nothing wrong with it but that's just a cute hobbyist thing it's not going to make the platform attractive to developers or OEMs.

I agree. If that's what gets webOS on a slab phone with LTE, then great, but I would prefer there be real hardware presence for the platform.

[etphoto]

Why Nexus? They already have the Pre3 (they might want to change the name). Just start making them again. I think they might be surprised with the interest with the number of WebOS fans increased after the fire sale on the TP.

-- Sent from my TouchPad using Communities

[cgk]

Why Nexus? They already have the Pre3 (they might want to change the name). Just start making them again. I think they might be surprised with the interest with the number of WebOS fans increased after the fire sale on the TP.

-- Sent from my TouchPad using Communities

This is just crazy - at best, it added 750,000 people and most of them were garbage collectors (I know because I'm one of them) - this does not mean they will pay full price for a phone with no app market to speak of and using a design that flopped and flopped again in the market.

[eblade]

I think there are enough of Palm's employees left that they could produce a slab concept that they surely already had in the pipeline and just update the specs to be compatible with LTE on the 3 big carriers. It doesn't have to be a ground breaking device, but a show of good faith to the community and to potential manufacturers that HP is still on board.

Yes, obviously they had a slab concept in the pipeline, because they produced:

Treo 90 - Flip-style portrait w/ keyboard
Treo 600 - Portrait w/ keyboard
Treo 700 - Portrait w/ keyboard
Treo 680 - Portrait w/ keyboard
Treo 750 - Portrait w/ keyboard
Treo 755 - Portrait w/ keyboard
Centro - Portrait w/ keyboard
Treo 800 - Portrait w/ keyboard
Treo Pro - Portrait w/ keyboard
Pre - Portrait slider
Pre+ - Portrait slider
Pixi - Portrait w/ keyboard
Pixi + - Portrait w/ keyboard
Pre 2 - Portrait slider
Veer - Portrait slider
Pre 3 - Portrait slider

.. and several other models of Treos that I can't seem to locate pictures of, but I'm just going to guess that they were all portrait orientation with a keyboard on the bottom.

Palm and BlackBerry completely owned this segment of the phone business, while the rest of the phone business moved on to landscape orientated sliders and slabs with only virtual keyboards. Note that Palm is effectively no longer with us, and BlackBerry is hurting quite badly.

[allen832008]

Yes, obviously they had a slab concept in the pipeline, because they produced:

Treo 90 - Flip-style portrait w/ keyboard
Treo 600 - Portrait w/ keyboard
Treo 700 - Portrait w/ keyboard
Treo 680 - Portrait w/ keyboard
Treo 750 - Portrait w/ keyboard
Treo 755 - Portrait w/ keyboard
Centro - Portrait w/ keyboard
Treo 800 - Portrait w/ keyboard
Treo Pro - Portrait w/ keyboard
Pre - Portrait slider
Pre+ - Portrait slider
Pixi - Portrait w/ keyboard
Pixi + - Portrait w/ keyboard
Pre 2 - Portrait slider
Veer - Portrait slider
Pre 3 - Portrait slider

.. and several other models of Treos that I can't seem to locate pictures of, but I'm just going to guess that they were all portrait orientation with a keyboard on the bottom.

Palm and BlackBerry completely owned this segment of the phone business, while the rest of the phone business moved on to landscape orientated sliders and slabs with only virtual keyboards. Note that Palm is effectively no longer with us, and BlackBerry is hurting quite badly.

OK. You got me there. Lol

[cgk]

Which is sort of weird when you think that Samsung and others are now producing effectively PDAs on steroids and are trying to bring back the stylus (the galaxy note) while it become an article of faith within Palm's culture that people can have whatever device they like... as long as it has a keyboard.

[marcedhk]

Let's face it, HP's webOS hardware efforts failed for various reasons that have been discussed ad-infinitum in these forums, and because of the way things happened they burned all kinds of bridges and then ground the ashes into a fine powder. They would likely had a difficult time getting retailers and carriers to be interested in new webOS hardware from them at this time, and are unlikely (some would also say unable) to commit the resources needed to get good, market ready hardware out in from of consumers at this moment.

With that being said though, open webOS is going to need hardware, and so HP needs to look at what they can do to encourage third party OEM's to make dedicated hardware to support it, as opposed to relying on the efforts of hobbyists porting it to other manufacturers' devices.

I think a good way HP can support this effort without having to invest too heavily is to provide reference designs for webOS hardware. For example, they could release the designs and specs for the current TouchPad, TouchPad Go and Pre3 hardware and make it free for anyone who wants to to use them, allowing manufactures to legally clone and further develop these platforms. This would afford third party manufacturers significant savings on both the costs and the time needed to develop new webOS specific hardware, making it an easier decision for them to take the plunge.

[cgk]

Pre3 hardware and make it free for anyone who wants to to use them, allowing manufactures to legally clone and further develop these platforms. This would afford third party manufacturers significant savings on both the costs and the time needed to develop new webOS specific hardware, making it an easier decision for them to take the plunge.

This is the same false logic that is applied to "WebOS will win because it's free" - it's no saving if you can't sell the bloody things!

Someone taking the time to turn out Pre 3s in large volume or a similar device based on the Pre 3 might as well throw the money on a large fire.

[marcedhk]

Someone taking the time to turn out Pre 3s in large volume or a similar device based on the Pre 3 might as well throw the money on a large fire.

Was the Pre3 a bad phone? I was under the impression that it was a pretty good phone, and that people would be interested in an updated version with updated specs? People seem to be quite happy paying between $300 to $400 for them on eBay, so why do you think no one would want a "Pre 4"?

[kataran]

doesn,t HP still sell the iPAQ 510?

why can't they retro fit it for webOS?

[cgk]

Was the Pre3 a bad phone? I was under the impression that it was a pretty good phone, and that people would be interested in an updated version with updated specs? People seem to be quite happy paying between $300 to $400 for them on eBay, so why do you think no one would want a "Pre 4"?

People are buying between $300-$400 for them because there are literally a few thousand floating around and there are more people who want them than exist - demand outstrips supply because of the very limited numbers but from the sales figures, that doesn't scale - there are not 100,000s of people who want a Slider device with a small screen.

It's amazing to me that three years in and everything that has happened and the trends in smartphone design, that people are still convinced that there are masses of people who want a slider phone with a small screen.

[bikeguychicago]

I would also like them to open-source the specs of the Touchstone technology in both the phones and Touchpads (if it is not included as part of the current webOS open source) and include this as part of any reference design.

This would allow manufacturers to take advantage of the technology and (hopefully) get some third-party alternatives into the market (such as a real, not hacked Pre3 Touchstone).

[marcedhk]

People are buying between $300-$400 for them because there are literally a few thousand floating around and there are more people who want them than exist - demand outstrips supply because of the very limited numbers but from the sales figures, that doesn't scale - there are not 100,000s of people who want a Slider device with a small screen.

It's amazing to me that three years in and everything that has happened and the trends in smartphone design, that people are still convinced that there are masses of people who want a slider phone with a small screen.

But the whole point of having the reference design is you can modify it to your purposes. You can replace the 3G with 4G LTE. You can remove the keyboard and turn it into a slab phone. You can upgrade the camera and its software. You can replace the screen with a larger and/or higher resolution one. You can replace the GPS module with a better one. You can do all this because the reference design gives you the architectural 'blueprints' of how everything works together, freeing you to make whatever changes you fancy, for a lot less money and time than if you built it from scratch. Check out the following video and you'll see what I mean: