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  1.    #1  
    If you have a Mac, buy something.

    If you don't have a Mac, click the above link to get one.

    Their stock dropped again on news that 1st Quarter 2001 won't be profitable.
  2. #2  
    hmm. what an odd post. help apple? apple's never done anything for me except offer to sell me overpriced computers with odd configurations. although lately i guess they've graduated to offering me a really pretty computer with very limited expandability.

    a few years back when they allowed clones to be made, a few companies started making better macs than apple was making. for cheaper. how odd. does apple learn from this? nope, instead, they let the offer to make clones "expire." what a handy way to deal with competition. admittedly, i don't know the entire situation, but as a consumer, that's certainly how it appeared. makes me wonder if they've heard of betamax.

    they make a great computer, yes, but what, outside of that, have they *ever* done right?

    though i'm by no means trumpeting the accomplishments of their competition, at least the computer i have was affordable and is very expandable.

    apple's situation in no way surprises me. it actually seems quite fitting. some might say insanely fitting.

  3. #3  
    Boy, this is going to be one long thread!
  4. #4  
    Originally posted by Fishscaler
    Their stock dropped again on news that 1st Quarter 2001 won't be profitable.
    I don't think Apple is going to be the only one with this trouble... Gateway has said they're going to be off, too. I think the PC industry is going to be soft overall well into next year.
    .....<a href="">TreoCentral</a> | <a href="">VisorCentral</a> Forum Moderator - Forum Guidelines
    .....Sprint PCS Treo 650
    .....God bless America, my home sweet home...
  5. #5  

    they make a great computer, yes, but what, outside of that, have they *ever* done right?
    What else do they need to do? ;o)

    In response to the initial post, I am not into corporate wellfare (or, in this case, corporate charity).

    Jobs is a great innovator and makes great machines, but he needs to learn to treat the company a bit more like a business.

    Apple admitted that the cubes are overpriced, and their current problems, as Mark pointed out, are industry wide. Their other problem is that they are not pushing Motorola to up the processor speeds fast enough. I don't care how much you try and convince someone that RISC processors are faster, they will ALWAYS go with the 1 gig chip compared to the 450 meg chip.

    Anyways, Apple is just fine. I think this '' crash has everyone paranoid.

    In regards to the high prices comments, I have to agree. I'm a big apple advocate myself, but these prices are getting a little silly. I went to purchase the new Pro Mouse to replace my hockey puck...$65?!?!

    I don't think so. I can get any number of optical mice for prices ranging from $30 - $60. And I also get an extra button or two! Sorry, Apple...doing business elsewhere...

    We're all naked if you turn us inside out.
    -David Byrne
  6.    #6  
    I got Microsoft's mid-range optical mouse for my Toshiba laptop, 'cause an eraserhead is no way to play Age of Empires. It set me back around $50.

    Though it wouldn't look right next to a Graphite iMac, I'd probably get one for it. It has a nice hand feel, has IE back and forward buttons, and a scroller wheel.

    Have to clear my antique powerMac 6100/66 from it's desk before getting the iMac. Am keeping the 17" NEC multisync for use with my Toshiba.
  7. #7  
    Time to help Apple? Right now, the only thing that can help Apple. It's not hard to see why sales are down, and enthusiasm surrounding their products is waning. PowerMac G4s are grossly overpriced and under-featured, the Cube is impractical (and expensive), and the iMac is obsolete. Steve Jobs keeps betting on technologies that don't pan out. Look at iMovie and DVD. It never took off, and it was clear to everyone in the industry more than a year ago that digital audio (MP3 and Napster) was the next killer app. But instead of equipping iMacs/PowerMacs with audio software and CD-RW, he stuck with iMovie and DVD-Rom. The same thing happened with his choice in video chipsets. Jobs picked the ATI Rage Pro 128 at a time when nVidia was destined for success. TNT was a hit, and GeForce has all but become the standard for gamers. And yet, Apple still ships every iMac and PowerMac with ATI's inferior technology. He made another critical mistake by betting the company's hardware future on the PowerPC processor. While AMD and Intel cranked out faster and faster x86 architecture chips, Apple has remained stuck with slower clock-speeds. And Jobs still refuses to make critical updates to the iMac such as moving to a 17" monitor instead of the default 15". In short, Apple isn't listening to its installed base. I frequently visit Mac message boards at AppleInsider and MacAddict, and there is a rising tide of anger and unrest. Everyone is demanding faster processors, more options, and lower prices. So far, Jobs response has been to introduce more colors, and an 8'G4 Cube that Mac users didn't ask for!

    Mac fans don't seem to have the same faith and trust in Apple (Steve Jobs in particular) that they once had. I don't blame them. If I were a Mac user, I would be furious with the company's product offerings and prices. Just look at the single PowerMac G4; $1600 for a system that ships with only 64 MB of Ram, 400 Mhz processor (which, contrary to Apple's claims does NOT outperform a 1 Gigahertz Intel/AMD), a 20 gig hard drive, no CD-RW, ATI Rage pro 128 video graphics (which is horribly obsolete), and only 3 PCI slots? That is a fairly hefty price tag for such a paltry system! You can buy a WinTel PC that will easily outperform this system, a comes with much more options, for around $1200. There are some bright spots ahead for Apple, such as OSX. But the problem is; most consumers will never get to experience OSX because they don't own a Mac, and Apple is CRAZY to even think that consumers are going to throw away their PCs and purchase a Mac! Sorry guys, it's just not going to happen. PCs are THE standard. Sad, but true.

    The irony is; Apple has in its power, the potential to turn the entire industry on its ear, if it would simply port OSX to x86. I would love to be able to boot into OSX on my PC! With this option, Apple could become a serious force in the enterprise, and an even more serious threat to Microsoft! With its BSD Microkernel, OSX could draw even the Linux community under its wings. Yet Steve Jobs refuse to "think different" and look beyond the Mac in seeking to expand his company into new markets. For example, look at internet appliances...if any company can create a net appliance that finally becomes a success, its Apple! Even PDAs are an option, at this point. Jonathan Ives could definitely design a truly beautiful PDA.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm not at all saying that "APPLE IS DEAD", or other such nonsense. On the contrary, I think this company has a bright future...if it moves all of its pieces into more "fruitful" (pun intended) directions. Hell, I've even been considering purchasing a G4 for my work, in fact I'm still considering it. I won't make any decision until after MacWorld in January. If, at that time, Apple still hasn't delivered more compelling products at competitive prices, I will remain with my PC. I'm not exactly thrilled with PCs in general. I'm sick to the point of nausea at having to look at the same boring beige box! The only thing that makes me more ill is the idea of buying another DELL system that looks exactly like my three year old system now!!! Where are the innovations in the PC industry? I see no elegance or original ideas going into the design of PCs at all. DELL, Gateway, Compaq, they all keep spitting out the same tired designs over and over and over again. I dislike the G4 Cube, but at least Apple is playing with different ideas on how to make desktops more refined and user friendly. Dell and Gateway could learn a few things just by peeking over Apple's shoulder. I suspect that some consumers may be showing a lack of interest in PCs BECAUSE of the lack of style in case designs. After all, why go out and buy a PC that looks exactly like the one you have sitting on your desk right now? Just my opinion.

    Bottom line: Apple needs to become a solutions provider, instead of simply a box maker. So far that hasn't happened yet.
  8. #8  
    Rumor has it that Apple bought the recently neglected software CD Master from Radialogic. This would hint at CD-RW drives shipping in the next batch of computers (about time). Jobs said in the earnings announcement that Apple had missed the boat on CD-RW drives, and that they were also trying to close the MHz gap.

    To be honest, I'm glad Apple stuck with the PowerPC processors. The Pentium 4's are ancient technology on steroids, and it shows. The G3's blew away all the competition when they came out, right now the G4's are a bit behind, but thats just the way things go. If IBM (or anyone other than Motorola) were in control of the G4, I think we would have seen faster speeds by now.

    Support Apple? Yes, but don't do it just because their stock has dropped, do it because you want to buy an amazing computer. They are a big company and can take care of themselves.
  9. #9  
    Originally posted by lennonhead
    Support Apple? Yes, but don't do it just because their stock has dropped, do it because you want to buy an amazing computer. They are a big company and can take care of themselves.
    My thoughts exactly. You should never purchase a product that DOESN'T meet your needs, simply to support the company who made it. I have always been a fan of Apple's corporate image and style. But if their products aren't competitively price, or offer compelling features and options....why should I buy a Mac? Apple is, however, way ahead of the curve in enclosure designs. The PowerMac G4 turns me into a drooling slob every time I see one. And I would murder everyone in my family to covet a Cinema display, but the prices are horrendous!!! My budget for a workstation is around $1400-1500, or somewhere in there. That being the case, I would never buy the low-end G4 tower, it's a terrible value.

    If Apple can deliver on its promise at MacWorld, I may be tempted to pick up the G4. But if I have to look at another beige box, I'm going to hurl leftover fruit cake at everyone!
  10. #10  
    I'm using a Leading Edge 486DX (at a blistering 33mhz!). My monitor only displays 256 colors. I have 20mg ram, and a 330mb hard disk. I have forced win95, msoffice, and palm desktop down its throat and I can tell it doesn't like it. The time for an upgrade has passed. I've been looking longingly at an iMac, but my budget doesn't allow for anything until mid-January. My mom is getting rid of her computer (a custom built system with a 166 cyrix chip, 10 gig hardrive, 64mg ram, and a monitor that displays 32-bit color) in Febraury. I'd be interesting in hearing some opinions on getting the base iMac with some touch-ups vs. keeping my mom's unit and upgrading the processor to a 233mhz pentium, upgrading to win98, and installing usb ports to get my visor to sync with it. I've been looking for a good comparitive review but all i've found is flaming. Apparently the resource I've been looking for has been under my nose this entire time.

    P.S. I've never owned a Mac, but I would have no problem getting one and fiddling around until I understood what was going on.
    I've decided to become enigmatic.
  11. #11  

    I would go with the base iMac rather than upgrading your mom's old PC, which would only be useful for web browsing considering its age and hardware. In its condition, anything you put into it will be worth more than the entire system!

    Just my opinion.
  12. #12  

    Your arguments are valid, but keep in mind that Apple isn't targeting you as a customer.

    The iMac was never meant to be a product that gamers, or already-tech-savvy people would want. It was and is made for the newbie or for those that just want a simple mac. And that worked.

    Are they impracticle? Not really. They serve the needs of the users just fine.

    The G4s are great machines. Are they 1.5 giga-hertz. No. But I didn't need that.

    Apple has stuck with PowerPC chips for one reason...they are a better technology. MOTOROLA is to blame for not pushing the speeds faster. They will...let's just hope soon. (To Intel's credit...they've been working their asses off pushing these speeds higher).

    Apple has in its power, the potential to turn the entire industry on its ear, if it would simply port OSX to x86.
    Apple makes money selling computers. They will never port MacOSX to the intel chip-set.

    Apple is also not trying to beat Windows and Intel. They have a very solid niche market and they are happy with that. More power to them.

    Why would Audi compete with Ford? Two different markets.

    And as silly as the cube need to see one in person to really appreciate it. YES, it would be nice if it were closer to $1000, but it is a slick little machine.

    We're all naked if you turn us inside out.
    -David Byrne
  13. #13  
    So would it be possible to install my Wizardry VII on a Mac? That might be a deal breaker .
    I've decided to become enigmatic.
  14. #14  
    Yeah, if you get a program called Virtual PC. That game is old so it should run fine. You can even get just the DOS version of VPC (which is a bit cheaper). I'm not sure if version 4.0 will run the game or not, they took lots of game support out of it in order to make it faster for other applications, but you can still get version 3. If you decide to get it with a Win9.x install, you might want to get the Win 95 version, it runs faster than 98 (but there isn't any USB support). You can find out more at

    I forgot to say that VPC runs at about the half the speed of your Mac, so don't expect to run anything processor intensive. Also 3-d games are out of the question (except maybe Doom). It is a great program if you need the extra compatibility and if you want to play old games.
  15. #15  
    Went to Apple's website and found out I can defer payment until March. Needless to say it's on its way. This week is going to drag out endlessly. Ended up going with the iMac DV (wanted the extra RAM). It seems able to be upgraded easier. Choosing between the ruby and indigo has led to some marital difficulties, though (how can you not want ruby?). Got virtual pc on its way as well. Running at half the processor speed (200mhz) is still over 6 times faster than my current processor, and Wizardry runs fine on this ancient. I'll just run Gold if I have too much trouble with DOS compatibility.

    P.S. It's a bad 20 year anniversary for you, eh lennonhead? It's been a somber day all around. We're looking at possibly 3 blizzards blowing through here this weekend. Not going have a good time driving.

    [Edited by ****-richardson on 12-08-2000 at 04:34 PM]
    I've decided to become enigmatic.
  16. #16  
    No snow around here, but it has been pretty cold and dreary. I guess the anniversary of a death isn't supposed to be a joyous occasion.
  17. #17  
    Thought long and hard about an iBook SE G3 466 and a PowerBook G3 400.

    Finally, I have decided on a PC notebook. The iBook is a reasonable machine, but the screen isn't the greatest and the lack of a VGA port is very irritating. Granted, VGA is not necessary for a lot of the low-end market, but I find even poor students may invest in a cheap monitor to work with a laptop. Conversely, the lack of a composite output on the DVD-capable PC laptops I've been looking at is also very irritating. The PowerBook seems OK, except that it's just too expensive for what it does, considering it only has a G3 400 processor. While it is OK at certain photoshop filters, overall, it just ain't that speedy. It's time for G4s to make their appearance in laptops, and for the Mac towers to have faster G4s. The best thing though about the PowerBooks is that they have a lot of I/O options, better than most PC laptops.

    OS 9 really isn't a very good operating system. It doesn't multitask very well, and it's not quite stable. I am very excited about Mac OS X, but I can't justify buying a laptop for OS X when the OS is still beta, and virtually no software exists for it. I also find it strange that Apple hasn't taken care of the file sharing issues with Windows systems. It's hard to justify spending another $200 (CAD) on Dave just to get basic file sharing functionality.

    The Cube IS cool (pun intended), but in truth it takes up more desk space than a G4 because most people just stick the G4 under the desk. Makes more sense.

    Yes, Apple, port OS X to Intel. If you do that you are going to have an all out war! However, you may actually win part of that war. Personally, I love the idea of OS X on a PC. If I could I'd dual boot Win 2000 and OS X in a shot. But I can't.

    P.S. I wonder how much of this is political. If we ignore the graphics programs (ie. niche) the only general software for the Mac is really all from Microsoft (Office and Internet Explorer).

    [Edited by Eug on 12-10-2000 at 10:53 AM]
  18. #18  
    The iBook's screen is actually very nice. It is somewhat small compared to others, but in terms of quality it is better than all of the consumer PC notebooks I've seen. It is the same kind that is in the PowerBooks, just two inches smaller. The size itself might be a limiting factor, I wouldn't get one because to me 12.1" isn't large enough for graphics work.

    In terms of general Mac software, I don't think that statement is true. There are programs ranging from internet browsers to CD mastering software that don't have anything to do with M$. We almost had to live without M$ for a while there (what a shame), it wasn't until this past summer that they revved up their Mac support. With the impending anti-trust suit ruling I guess they decided they better be nice to Apple, so they released Office 2001, IE 5.0 for OSX and a whole slew of M$ games to be released over the next year or two. Can't be much more transparent than that!
  19. #19  
    Honestly, I wish Apple would port OS X to the x86 chipset. They can do that and still make a profit. It would be a major paradigm shift for the company, but I think they could pull it off.

    What's stopping Apple from selling both types of computers? They'll still get the profits from hardware, and more so on the x86 side with prices as they are today.

    Port OS X, then have Photoshop and a few key apps run faster under OS X then Windows and see what happens. I would definately try out OSX x86 and would probably change to it completely.

    At home, the only things I run are Office, Photoshop, and Internet access. I have a N64 for playing games so that doesn't bother me.

    Woulnd't porting OS X to the x86 would also make Win emulation faster?
    James Hromadka, TreoCentral Editor
    Houston - EST. 1836
  20. #20  
    Well, rumour has it that on Jan. 9 Apple will be announcing the new hardware, and that it will probably include G4 PowerBooks.

    Anyways, as an aside, I finally bought a router and set up a little DSL sharing network at home. Borrowed a laptop and hooked it up. Now I'm hooked. No more sitting at the desk and posting on VisorCentral.

    Wireless is going to be even better. Airport is a great way to to it, but there are many PC solutions as well, such as the Linksys. My original interest in the iBook was partially related to the cheaper wireless solution from Apple but the PC setups have drastically come down in price.
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