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  1.    #121  
    Spam, I posted a thread about the people failing to show up for duty a couple of weeks ago.
  2. #122  
    Quote Originally Posted by heberman
    I heard Charlie talking about the bill a couple of months ago. He didn't say it was a "tool" to point out a draft would be needed, but something very different. Charlie explained how blacks and other minorities were disproportionately killed in Vietnam, and that if there were a draft now, the rich white boys would have to share an equal burden in Iraq, and the rich white parents would therefore be against the war.

    It was race-baiting at its finest, and yet another low in American politics.
    First off it is not blacks per se but low economic people in general which dominate the enlisted troops. Anyone who served in the military, not ROTC, but in the enlisted ranks in the combat specialites like infantry, you would know this. The vast majority of these enlisted are from inner cities and poor rural areas. I have served with them, these kids are looking for a way out of poverty. In some high school's everyone might be going to college, in their high schools everyone is dropping out and there are very low expectations, and no role models. The military looks like the best case scenario to many of them. On the other hand, affluent neighborhoods and suburbs, with their excellent schools, in other words the republican strongholds, have none or very few of their kids enlisting in the military, sure there are exceptions, but the vast majority go to college and they and their parents have this expectation that they will never have to go to war. They can have someone else fight their wars for them, just like they have the gardener trim their hedges. Sure they can say God bless the troops and we support you rah rah rah. But that is a far cry from actually having to do it themselves. And Bush is one of these people too, he thinks the concept of war is great, While he is quick to use it as an option, has no personal experience of what real combat is like, because he has lived all his life feeling that he is too priviliged to have to worry about going to war.

    So, choose to ignore it if you wish, but what it boils down to is one group that feels like it can promote war and and not have to worry about actually risking their lives when they have a bunch of poor people who do this for them.

    Thats why I like the draft. And Rangel is right in what he says, it is not racebaiting but a reality.
  3. mrjoec's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heberman
    I think the Democrat arguments are more simple than that, and are designed to create fear: "If you vote for Bush, you may be drafted." It's a scare tactic, and scare tactics are used by both sides, but this one is completely without any basis in fact. I heard MTV's "Rock the Boat" spokesperson give that exact message, and she did it with a straight face.
    That's a shame. I agree with you, and that's why I would never use that particular arguement. Though I do think that a nation which continues to employ a policy of preventative war will eventually need to have a draft. Maybe not within the next four years, but eventually.

    It's easy to get volunteers during peace time. During a prolonged period of war it's another story.

    Quote Originally Posted by heberman
    I haven't seen any "lie" by Cheney. Could you point some specific "lies" out?
    During the VP debate, he looked Edwards straight in the face and told him the first time he had ever met him was that night, implying that Edwards never attends to his Senate duties. Less than a half hour later, every major news station was showing a video of Cheney and Edwards sitting next to each other at a dinner years earlier. And several other interviews with other government officials, etc, made it clear that Cheney had met Edwards on several occasions, and in fact attends the Senate proceedings far less often than Edwards does. His so-called Tuesday meetings are actually closed meetings with Republican senators only.

    Just to name one of a thousand.

    Quote Originally Posted by heberman
    I'm not sure how the "Global Test" statements are a deception. Kerry said what he said in the debate, and in the context that his actions would be subject to some sort of approval by other countries. He has said the same thing before, more directly. The most direct statement which comes to mind is really old (about 25 years old), where Kerry talked about not taking any foreign action without the prior approval of the UN.
    They are a deception because Kerry made it clear in the statement just before the "Global Test" sentence that he would NEVER give another nation a veto over our rights to pre-emtion. Bush conveniently leaves that part out.

    It's not about approval. It's about justification. FDR didn't ask for permission to enter WWII. But his actions passed the "Global Test" after the fact. Kerry's not talking about what we do at the time. He's talking about how we are judged by history. And despite what a lot of Americans think, how we are judged by history DOES matter, if we want to continue to be the most prosperous nation on earth. Kerry just doesn't want the chapter in the school text titled "The Fall of the American Glory" to start in 2004.

    Quote Originally Posted by heberman
    Regarding the 75% Al Queda statistic, why are you implying that number is wrong?
    Here's a math problem for you:

    Part one: How many Al Quaeda operatives are there in the world? (According to Condi Rice in a recent interview- "could be tens, could be hundreds, we just don't know.")

    Part two: what's 75% of "we just don't know"?
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