[switchedgear]

We have gotten way off the original topic..... No I won't take a muslim to luch any day
1. They don't like cheeseburgers and beer.
2. I like cheeseburgers and beer.
3. Well just because I don't want too.

[xForsaken]

I'm in, does Romio's sound good?

only if your buying,, i need a plane ticket and hotel room covered as well..

[morrison0880]

What?!? They burned an American flag at their protest?!? We should riot in the
streets. Burn their leaders in effigy. Demand an end to the desecration of the American flag in foreign countries as I find it highly offensive. We should make protest signs reading "Behead Those That Insult America" or "Death to Flag Burners". We'll throw rocks, overturn cars, and set them on fire. Then, we'll blow some stuff up to show the world how peaceful we are, possibly a school full of innocent children, or maybe a grocery store as that seems to be a popular target as well. Then we'll cry to the international community about how no one understands us and that we're really a peaceful people who just want the freedom to fly our flag without discrimination. See how well that goes over. Do you think anyone would bend over backwards to appease us like they do the Islamic community? I think not.


Explain to me why a hodunk pastor threatening, not actually doing, but threatening to burn their holy book is worse than having insurgents behead and burn the body of a Muslim cleric. Why are the world's Muslims and Imams not protesting and threatening war (yes, the idiots in the IAF said that the plan to burn their holly book a “declaration of War” against Islamic peoples) against Iraqi insurgents over that? Ah, that's right. Because Muslim on Muslim crime is ok, in fact normal, and only they can attack/kill their own.
Imam, Policeman’s Wife Beheaded in Iraq « VOA Breaking News

But yes, you're right. It's only a few extremists who are responsible. There were only a handful of Muslims in the Middle East celebrating when the towers came down. There are only a tiny group of protesters burning flags and going bat crap crazy over this. Pull your Lib head out of the sand and take a look around. It's a bit more than a few crazies from the Religion of Peace.

[grappler]

What?!? They burned an American flag at their protest?!? We should riot in the
streets. Burn their leaders in effigy. Demand an end to the desecration of the American flag in foreign countries as I find it highly offensive. We should make protest signs reading "Behead Those That Insult America" or "Death to Flag Burners". We'll throw rocks, overturn cars, and set them on fire. Then, we'll blow some stuff up to show the world how peaceful we are, possibly a school full of innocent children, or maybe a grocery store as that seems to be a popular target as well. Then we'll cry to the international community about how no one understands us and that we're really a peaceful people who just want the freedom to fly our flag without discrimination. See how well that goes over. Do you think anyone would bend over backwards to appease us like they do the Islamic community? I think not.


Explain to me why a hodunk pastor threatening, not actually doing, but threatening to burn their holy book is worse than having insurgents behead and burn the body of a Muslim cleric. Why are the world's Muslims and Imams not protesting and threatening war (yes, the idiots in the IAF said that the plan to burn their holly book a “declaration of War” against Islamic peoples) against Iraqi insurgents over that? Ah, that's right. Because Muslim on Muslim crime is ok, in fact normal, and only they can attack/kill their own.
Imam, Policeman’s Wife Beheaded in Iraq « VOA Breaking News

But yes, you're right. It's only a few extremists who are responsible. There were only a handful of Muslims in the Middle East celebrating when the towers came down. There are only a tiny group of protesters burning flags and going bat crap crazy over this. Pull your Lib head out of the sand and take a look around. It's a bit more than a few crazies from the Religion of Peace.

I agree with much of what you say, but how do you propose we interact with those Muslims who are not extremists (assuming you believe some exist)? Seems to me this battle will be a hell of a lot easier to win with their help than without it. People always clamor for moderate Muslims to turn the page, but when they do (as with the Park51 project), the crazies on our shore try to shut it down. Just on a practical level, this isn't helping the situation.

[Micael]

...by an organized disinformation campaign and are therefore not based on the true facts of the case....

I'm sorry if I missed it, but do you have any proof of an organized disinformation campaign, and what exactly is the disinformation? Please don't just say "Faux News".

[morrison0880]

How's this for an olive branch that they can extend:
"I understand we have the right to build our mosque near ground zero. We personally don't think it's that close, but I can see that many people are extremely upset about this. We are still going to build it, but in the name of understanding and tolerance, we will move it to a location that is more respectful to the pain suffered by the victims, and the entire country, on Septerber 11.

Why do you people need to go on defending their right to build this mosque. (And please don't tell me it isn't a mosque. We all know that's what it is.) No one is saying they don't have the right to build it. Just build...it...somewhere...else. It's not "crazies" trying to shut it down. It's people who were direct victims of the 9/11 attacks, as well as anyone else deeply hurt by them.

So how do we interact with regular ol' Muslims? How about we tell them to stand up and vocally denounce every tragedy that is occurring in the name of Allah? How about they take some personal responsibility and admit that threatening to kill a cartoonist over his depiction of Mohammad was a tiny little over-reaction? How about instead of paying lip service to tolerance and goodwill, they actually show a little? If you think that the project (mosque) is "turning the page", then think of their willingness to actually build somewhere else as writing the first sentence in a new book.

But I think you and I know that such a book will pretty much never be written.

[morrison0880]

And while we're on the topic, can you explain to me why religion should be immune to criticism? Why we aren't able make fun of someone's beliefs, or tell them they are wrong, or express that a religion is wrong or dangerous in itself? What makes one's religion so sacred, that we have to walk on eggshells to make sure we don't offend anyone? When did freedom of religion become freedom from anyone ridiculing or speaking ill of any faith?
I don't care about what happened in the past. Right NOW in modern times you do not see Christians Bombing civilian areas in the name of God or Christ. You don't see suicide bombers kissing the cross before charging into a crowded public place. You don't see devout Buddhists capturing and beheading anyone who does not believe in Nirvana and reincarnation. I can't remember any headlines of Hindus killing anyone who believes in one or less gods. Strange, isn't it?
All religions are dangerous in their own ways. However, I'd rather have a Scientologist try to brainwash me than a Muslim try to cut my head off. Just saying. (Wait, did I just call Scientology a religion? My bad.)

[063_xobx]

I don't care about what happened in the past. Right NOW in modern times you do not see Christians Bombing civilian areas in the name of God or Christ. You don't see suicide bombers kissing the cross before charging into a crowded public place. You don't see devout Buddhists capturing and beheading anyone who does not believe in Nirvana and reincarnation. I can't remember any headlines of Hindus killing anyone who believes in one or less gods. Strange, isn't it?
)

So what you're saying is that since Christians went through their "extreme phase" (witch hunts, book burnings etc.) in the past it doesn't matter?

[Micael]

So what you're saying is that since Christians went through their "extreme phase" (witch hunts, book burnings etc.) in the past it doesn't matter?

Witch hunts were 300 years ago. Book burnings are constitutionally protected.

[063_xobx]

Witch hunts were 300 years ago. Book burnings are constitutionally protected.

Ok and how much older is Christianity then Islam? 600 years if my memory serves correct so doesn't that mean that if anything Islam is 300 years more advanced than Christianity was at this stage?
And there was no constitution 500 years ago in Europe

[Micael]

Ok and how much older is Christianity then Islam? 600 years if my memory serves correct so doesn't that mean that if anything Islam is 300 years more advanced than Christianity was at this stage?
And there was no constitution 500 years ago in Europe

Wow... you got me... I think? I'm missing your point I guess.

[ryleyinstl]

Christians commit many hateful things every day....and feel completely justified to do so due to their faith.

[Micael]

Christians commit many hateful things every day....and feel completely justified to do so due to their faith.

Examples?

[morrison0880]

So what you're saying is that since Christians went through their "extreme phase" (witch hunts, book burnings etc.) in the past it doesn't matter?

bingo! That is exactly what I am saying. If I lived back then I wouldve denounced christians as well. But guess what, I live today, in the 21st century, when Muslims are the major terrorist threat to civilization. So please take your simple thinking and your bs arguments like "Well, Christians did it in the past, and so and so did it 100, 500, 1000...years ago, so we shouldn't call out the Muslims on their murderous actions today" and go talk to another self hating lib somewhere else.

[063_xobx]

Wow... you got me... I think? I'm missing your point I guess.

Christianity had a "extreme phase", which lasted all the way up to the Renaissance... Islam is a much younger religion and is hitting it's "extreme phase" and has yet to go through a "Renaissance" of it's own so it's not fair to expect it to be as evolved as Christianity

[063_xobx]

bingo! That is exactly what I am saying. If I lived back then I wouldve denounced christians as well. But guess what, I live today, in the 21st century, when Muslims are the major terrorist threat to civilization. So please take your simple thinking and your bs arguments like "Well, Christians did it in the past, and so and so did it 100, 500, 1000...years ago, so we shouldn't call out the Muslims on their murderous actions today" and go talk to another self hating lib somewhere wlse.

We shouldn't call out Muslims we should be calling out terrorists. There is a drastic difference much in the same way that calling out the KK-K isn't calling out Christians.

[ryleyinstl]

Priests. Seem to me thier occupation is "Gods work." Many have done despicable hateful things to young children.

[irateb]

And while we're on the topic, can you explain to me why religion should be immune to criticism? Why we aren't able make fun of someone's beliefs, or tell them they are wrong, or express that a religion is wrong or dangerous in itself? What makes one's religion so sacred, that we have to walk on eggshells to make sure we don't offend anyone? When did freedom of religion become freedom from anyone ridiculing or speaking ill of any faith?
I don't care about what happened in the past. Right NOW in modern times you do not see Christians Bombing civilian areas in the name of God or Christ. You don't see suicide bombers kissing the cross before charging into a crowded public place. You don't see devout Buddhists capturing and beheading anyone who does not believe in Nirvana and reincarnation. I can't remember any headlines of Hindus killing anyone who believes in one or less gods. Strange, isn't it?
All religions are dangerous in their own ways. However, I'd rather have a Scientologist try to brainwash me than a Muslim try to cut my head off. Just saying. (Wait, did I just call Scientology a religion? My bad.)

While I see what you're trying to say, right NOW in modern times, abortion clinics that are bombed and doctors performing abortions that are murdered are done in the name of God or Christ...

[morrison0880]

Christians commit many hateful things every day....and feel completely justified to do so due to their faith.

So that justifies the Muslim terrorists' actions? "They did it too." Great argument.

[Micael]

Christianity had a "extreme phase", which lasted all the way up to the Renaissance... Islam is a much younger religion and is hitting it's "extreme phase" and has yet to go through a "Renaissance" of it's own so it's not fair to expect it to be as evolved as Christianity

.... so what? We're to have patience and ignore the beheadings, cause it's just a "growing up" phase?