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  1. backbeat's Avatar
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    Grab your weapon of choice, take your position, and enter an adult not-ready-for-primetime topic. No political 'leader' has the spine. Do you?

    Ron Paul's 9/11 explanation deserves to be debated

    Former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani was declared the winner of Tuesday's Republican presidential debate in South Carolina, largely for his smack down of Texas Rep. Ron Paul, who suggested that America's foreign policy contributed to the destruction on September 11, 2001.

    Paul, who is more of a libertarian than a Republican, was trying to offer some perspective on the pitfalls of an interventionist policy by the American government in the affairs of the Middle East and other countries.

    "Have you ever read about the reasons they attacked us? They attack us because we've been over there. We've been bombing Iraq for 10 years," he said.

    That set Giuliani off.

    "That's really an extraordinary statement," said Giuliani. "As someone who lived through the attack of September 11, that we invited the attack because we were attacking Iraq; I don't think I've ever heard that before and I've heard some pretty absurd explanations for September 11."

    As the crowd applauded wildly, Giuliani demanded that Paul retract his statements.

    Paul tried to explain the process known as "blowback" -- which is the result of someone else's action coming back to afflict you -- but the audience drowned him out as the other candidates tried to pounce on him.

    After watching all the network pundits laud Giuliani, it struck me that they must be the most clueless folks in the world.

    First, Giuliani must be an ***** to not have heard Paul's rationale before. That issue has been raised countless times in the last six years by any number of experts.

    Second, when we finish with our emotional response, it would behoove us to actually think about what Paul said and make the effort to understand his rationale.

    Granted, Americans were severely damaged by the hijacking of U.S. planes, and it has resulted in a worldwide fight against terror. Was it proper for the United States to respond to the attack? Of course! But should we, as a matter of policy, and moral decency, learn to think and comprehend that our actions in one part of the world could very well come back to hurt us, or, as Paul would say, blow back in our face? Absolutely. His real problem wasn't his analysis, but how it came out of his mouth.

    What has been overlooked is that Paul based his position on the effects of the 1953 ouster by the CIA of Iranian Prime Minister Mohammad Mossadegh.

    An excellent account of this story is revealed in Stephen Kinzer's alarming and revealing book, "Overthrow: America's Century of Regime Change from Hawaii to Iraq," where he writes that Iran was establishing a government close to a democracy. But Mossadegh wasn't happy that the profit from the country's primary resource -- oil -- was not staying in the country.

    Instead, the Anglo-Iranian Oil Company (now known British Petroleum, or BP) was getting 93 percent of the profits. Mossadegh didn't like that, and wanted a 50-50 split. Kinzer writes that that didn't sit too well with the British government, but it didn't want to use force to protect its interests. But their biggest friend, the United States, didn't mind, and sought to undermine Mossadegh's tenure as president. After all kinds of measures that disrupted the nation, a coup was financed and led by President Dwight Eisenhower's CIA, and the Shah of Iran was installed as the leader. We trained his goon squads, thus angering generations of Iranians for meddling in that nation's affairs.

    As Paul noted, what happened in 1953 had a direct relationship to the takeover of the U.S. Embassy in 1979. We viewed that as terrorists who dared attack America. They saw it as ending years of oppression at the hands of the ruthless U.S.-backed Shah regime.

    As Americans, we believe in forgiving and forgetting, and are terrible at understanding how history affects us today. We are arrogant in not recognizing that when we benefit, someone else may suffer. That will lead to resentment and anger, and if suppressed, will boil over one day.

    Does that provide a moral justification for what the terrorists did on September 11?

    Of course not. But we should at least attempt to understand why.

    Think about it. Do we have the moral justification to explain the killings of more than 100,000 Iraqis as a result of this war? Can we defend the efforts to overthrow other governments whose actions we perceived would jeopardize American business interests?

    The debate format didn't give Paul the time to explain all of this. But I'm confident this is what he was saying. And yes, we need to understand history and how it plays a vital role in determining matters today.

    At some point we have to accept the reality that playing big brother to the world -- and yes, sometimes acting as a bully by wrongly asserting our military might -- means that Americans alive at the time may not feel the effects of our foreign policy, but their innocent children will.

    Even the Bible says that the children will pay for the sins of their fathers.
  2. #2  
    I don't think it's even open for debate. September 11 happened because the US had troops in Saudi Arabia. The only reason for the troops being in Saudi Arabia was Iraq. Paul never said that they were right for their actions, merely that the particular grievance was accurate.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  3. #3  

    Prior year whining was about IRAQ not being involved and we had no business there. Now we've switched to justifying (or at least explaining) their 9/11 attack...
  4. #4  
    anyone with an extra bag o' orville redenbacher? extra butter?
  5. TomUps's Avatar
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    Yep, those poor souls in the WTC had in coming. Man, woman and child. After all, the U.S. bombed Iraq. Though, how many of the hijackers were from Iraq?

    I guess now using this line of thought, all the families of the WTC victims have a right to go over to Saudi Arabia and start killing innocents.
  6. backbeat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TomUps View Post
    After all, the U.S. bombed Iraq.
    This certainly crystalizes the idea that the US has no clue as to why it has enemies. Moreover, it defines the US's misunderstanding of others' values on nationalism. No big whoop, right?
  7. #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by backbeat View Post
    This certainly crystalizes the idea that the US has no clue as to why it has enemies. Moreover, it defines the US's misunderstanding of others' values on nationalism. No big whoop, right?
    Correct! we should embrace all other nation cultures and completely disregard our own in an effort to not offend anyone who might ruthlessly and without concious kill us
  8. #8  
    I should hope that nobody is saying that "we had it coming". It was a horrible horrible day created by evil evil men. The whole nation cried and then backed a justifiable war into Afghanistan to seek and destroy those responsible for 911. If only we had kept our resources concentrated on that effort....but I digress.

    There is a very fine line between nationalism and imperialism when you are the world's only superpower. I am proud to be an American, proud to have served my country, and proud every time I walk to my local polling place to vote in the world's best Democracy. But I think we are dillusional if we are arrogant enough to think that our dependence on oil and our absolute need to maintain a footprint in the middle east isn't a policy that should be revisited.

    Is it at all possible that the oil party is about over? Is it at all possible that we've made our own enemies stronger and weathier through our own greed to control and consume their oil? Is it possible that we've over stayed our welcome in the middle east, all in the name of oil, and now the policy has frayed so badly that we'll never be able to recover?

    Is it possible that we created Bin Laden, just as we did Saddam, because of the underlying theme in our middle east foriegn policy - oil? Do you really think that Bin Laden would have ever come into existence if we weren't over there protecting our "national interests" in their oil? Is it anybody's contention that they would have eventually come over here and attack us because "they hate our freedom? Really?

    I'm not condoning terrorism in any way. I think Bin Laden is a whack job that exploits young minds to commit horrendous acts in the name of religion. And I don't think anybody in the twin towers, Clinton, Bush, the CIA, FBI, etc. can be blamed for 911. But if we take an honest look as to why we are in the middle east and our policies over there I cannot imagine how a rational person can fail to conclude that we could have done things differently (e.g. investing in alternative fuels 20 years ago) and perhaps....just maybe, 911 would not have happened.
  9. #9  
    Picture this......if tomorrow it was announced that there was an easy and cheap way to convert all current cars on the road to run on water (i.e. hydrogen), with all cars that are to be sold in the US in production starting next month to be made to run on hydrogen. The gov steps up and gives huge tax breaks to assist the public and corp to transition quickly and immediately. Within 12 months 90% of all cars are not running on fossil fuels. During this time we also increase our own oil production to cover other needs from petroleum and it's byproducts, i.e. plastics, material (used in tents, parachutes, nylon rope, etc...), linoleum, tiles, carpets, etc...

    As a result we are completely self sufficient for our oil needs....and any extra we do need we are able to get from Russia, Canada, etc... With no oil interest at all in the Middle East, we close all our bases in the Middle East.

    In fact during this time we even have a major diplomatic fall out with Israel. To the point that we are officially still allies, but in practice not there backing up every action and statement Israel makes leaving them all but on their own.

    So, we end up with no major supporting ties to Israel, no bases, presence, or interference in the Middle East.....Would all terrorist attacks stop just as suddenly? Would the terrorist orgs still maintain their declarations of war against us? Does there statements of their goal and motivation to convert the world to Islam or confront all who resist the movement stop? Or would we then be welcome with open arms as friends of the West?
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal View Post
    So, we end up with no major supporting ties to Israel, no bases, presence, or interference in the Middle East.....Would all terrorist attacks stop just as suddenly? Would the terrorist orgs still maintain their declarations of war against us?
    You may have noticed I said in my example that we would have had to start doing things differently 20 years ago. I do think that islamo-facism would not have reached critical mass had we invested in alternative fuels 20 years ago. I cannot say for certain that there would be no terrorist since things may have played out differently - e.g. a poorer middle east could well have fostered more unrest that manifest itself into terrorist groups. I just don't agree that those groups would have had us as their primary target.

    Does their statements of their goal and motivation to convert the world to Islam or confront all who resist the movement stop? Or would we then be welcome with open arms as friends of the West?
    Well they are religous fantatics but I think they use religion as a recruiting tool. Again, if we'd invested in alternative fuels 20 years ago and history played out differently, I do not think this movement would have any legs. They certainly wouldn't have our money to help fund their initiatives.
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal View Post
    Or would we then be welcome with open arms as friends of the West?
    Didn't catch this rhetorical question. I guess it depends on who you are referring to? Terrorist? Of course not.

    Then again....seems to me Bush is pretty cozy with their backers already.

  12. #12  
    That CANT be a real photo! Is it?

    I understand every culture has its nuances and traditions, but THAT is ridiculous.
  13. #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by sxtg View Post

    Prior year whining was about IRAQ not being involved and we had no business there. Now we've switched to justifying (or at least explaining) their 9/11 attack...
    The irony of the "Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11" complaints did not escape me.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  14. backbeat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal View Post
    Picture this......if tomorrow ...
    Todays actions do not pay the price of poor policies of US-backed dictator-creation, assassinations, generalized murder, starvation, etc.

    If such forward-thinking actions had taken place through the past 50+ years, your point may have had validity. As presented, it lacks any merit.
  15. #15  

    138 views 13 posts LOL
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    I don't think it's even open for debate. September 11 happened because the US had troops in Saudi Arabia. The only reason for the troops being in Saudi Arabia was Iraq. Paul never said that they were right for their actions, merely that the particular grievance was accurate.
    Is it really debate closed that the only and main reason we "deserved" and "asked for" 9/11 is because we had a base in Saudi Arabia, which currently was supported and approved by the ruling gov? I also think Iran and Syria and Lybia also have a huge weight on determining the need for the US to have a base located in Saudi Arabia. To say it was ONLY for Iraq is a little short sighted.

    Want to know the reasons why they attacked on 9/11 by those who did attack on 9/11? Here are some of there statements prior to and while planning and after 9/11 as to really why they are going to / had attack us....followed by a timeline of all the attacks they have done since their declared reasons were published:

    CNN OBL Interview following 9/11...
    BIN LADEN: The events of Tuesday, September the 11th, in New York and Washington are great on all levels. Their repercussions are not over. Although the collapse of the twin towers is huge, but the events that followed, and I'm not just talking about the economic repercussions, those are continuing, the events that followed are dangerous and more enormous than the collapse of the towers.

    The values of this Western civilization under the leadership of America have been destroyed. Those awesome symbolic towers that speak of liberty, human rights, and humanity have been destroyed. They have gone up in smoke............... I tell you freedom and human rights in America are doomed. The U.S. government will lead the American people and the West in general will enter an unbearable hell and a choking life because the Western leadership acts under the Zionist lobby's influence for the purpose of serving Israel, which kills our sons unlawfully in order for them to remain in their leadership positions.


    Q: So what you are saying is that this is a type of reciprocal treatment. They kill our innocents, so we kill their innocents.

    BIN LADEN: So we kill their innocents, and I say it is permissible in law and intellectually, because those who spoke on this matter spoke from a juridical perspective.

    Q: This is exactly what I'm asking about.

    BIN LADEN: However, this prohibition of the killing of children and innocents is not absolute. It is not absolute. There are other texts that restrict it.

    I agree that the Prophet Mohammed forbade the killing of babies and women. That is true, but this is not absolute. There is a saying, "If the infidels killed women and children on purpose, we shouldn't shy way from treating them in the same way to stop them from doing it again." The men that God helped [attack, on September 11] did not intend to kill babies; they intended to destroy the strongest military power in the world, to attack the Pentagon that houses more than 64,000 employees, a military center that houses the strength and the military intelligence.

    Q: How about the twin towers?

    BIN LADEN: The towers are an economic power and not a children's school. Those that were there are men that supported the biggest economic power in the world. They have to review their books. We will do as they do. If they kill our women and our innocent people, we will kill their women and their innocent people until they stop.................

    We have one religion, one God, one book, one prophet, one nation. Our book teaches us to be brothers of a faith. All the Muslims are brothers. The name "al Qaeda" was established a long time ago by mere chance. The late Abu Ebeida El-Banashiri established the training camps for our mujahedeen against Russia's terrorism. We used to call the training camp al Qaeda [meaning "the base" in English]. And the name stayed. We speak about the conscience of the nation; we are the sons of the nation. We brothers in Islam from the Middle East, Philippines, Malaysia, India, Pakistan and as far as Mauritania.

    Those men who sacrificed themselves in New York and Washington, they are the spokesmen of the nation's conscience. They are the nation's conscience that saw they have to avenge against the oppression.

    Not all terrorism is cursed; some terrorism is blessed. A thief, a criminal, for example feels terrorized by the police. So, do we say to the policeman, "You are a terrorist"? No. Police terrorism against criminals is a blessed terrorism because it will prevent the criminal from repeating his deed. America and Israel exercise the condemned terrorism. We practice the good terrorism which stops them from killing our children in Palestine and elsewhere.................

    .........Bush is the leader; he carries the big cross and walks. I swear that every one who follows Bush in his scheme has given up Islam and the word of the prophet. This is very clear. The prophet has said, "Believers don't follow Jews or Christians." Our wise people have said that those who follow the unfaithful have become unfaithful themselves. Those who follow Bush in his crusade against Muslims have denounced God..............

    ............[Bin Laden recites verses from the Quran on same subject.]

    The Europeans are free, but when they side with the Jews, that their [unintelligible]. I tell Muslims to believe in the victory of God and in Jihad against the infidels of the world. The killing of Jews and Americans is one of the greatest duties.

    [More Quranic verses.]

    Remember the saying, "If they want to exile you, they can't exile you unless it is written by God." Don't ask anyone's opinion when it comes to the killing of Americans, and remember your appointment with God and the best of the prophets.
    Here are his statements that he has made good on concerning AQ's declaration of war listed below:

    Timeline of al-Qaida statements
    Messages via audio and video tapes since 1995

    --May 28, 1998 [Contemporaneous]
    In a video interview with ABC's John Miller, bin Laden praises Ramzi Yousef and Wali Khan Amin Shah, convicted in the "Day of Hate" airliner bombing plot -- which sought to blow up 11 U.S. commercial aircraft in one day -- saying "America will see many youths who will follow Ramzi Yousef." Bin Laden also praises the bombers of the Khobar Towers. "We predict a black day for America and the end of the United States as United States ... Allah willing." Bin Laden’s military commander, Mohammed Atef, also is seen on the tape.

    --June 10, 1999
    In a broadcast of new elements from the January interview, al-Jazeera shows bin Laden telling their interviewer that American civilians are prime targets because they support killing Muslims through their tax payments. The interview represents his broadest rationale for killing Americans. “Jihad now knows that with few weapons and people they destroyed the biggest war machine in Afghanistan. In our opinion, a superpower means nothing. The U.S. is much weaker than the Soviet Union was. We've learned from our Somali brothers how weak and cowardly American soldiers are. They lost only 80 people and they fled. “I look at the great men who attacked Khobar and Riyadh with great respect, those who made the explosions in Riyadh, Khobar, East Africa and young Palestinians who are giving the Israelis a lesson.

    “A man is considered a fighter whether he carries a gun or pays taxes to help kill us. So when they say bin Laden kills civilians, who are they killing in Palestine? Children. Our aim is that every American man is an enemy whether he kills us or pays taxes to kill us. The U.S. has a double standard...75 percent of the American people support Clinton hitting Saddam Hussein. It is a nation where the president’s rating goes up when he kills civilians.

    Previously unseen tape shows bin Laden's declaration of war
    ATLANTA, Georgia (CNN) -- [B] A never-before-seen al Qaeda video obtained by CNN shows Osama bin Laden declaring war against the United States and the West.


    "By God's grace," bin Laden says on the tape, "we have formed with many other Islamic groups and organizations in the Islamic world a front called the International Islamic Front to do jihad against the crusaders and Jews."

    "And by God's grace," he says at another point in the tape, "the men ... are going to have a successful result in killing Americans and getting rid of them."


    "The purported will states, 'Attack them on the sea. Attack them on the land. Attack them everywhere. Attack their economy,'" Bergen said.


    With hindsight, the important moments on the video are easy to pick out, including bin Laden hinting at an attack on U.S. targets.

    Within 11 weeks of the declaration, al Qaeda attacked U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania, in bombings that killed 224 people, including 12 Americans.

    And perhaps almost as chilling, because it didn't happen, al-Zawahiri appears to justify an attack on the U.S. Embassy in Cairo, Egypt.

    AQ Declaration of War was issued when Bill Clinton was president. Here is a full text copy of it here:

    Osama Bin Laden "Declaration of War against the Americans Occupying the Land of the Two Holy Places" 1996
    (This Fatwa was redistributed in 1998)

    Our youths believe in paradise after death. They believe that taking part in fighting will not bring their day nearer; and staying behind will not postpone their day either. Exalted be to Allah who said: {And a soul will not die but with the permission of Allah, the term is fixed} (Aal Imraan; 3:145). Our youths believe in the saying of the messenger of Allah (Allah's Blessings and Salutations may be on him): "O boy, I teach a few words; guard (guard the cause of, keep the commandments of) Allah, then He guards you, guard (the cause of ) Allah, then He will be with you; if you ask (for your need) ask Allah, if you seek assistance, seek Allah's; and know definitely that if the Whole World gathered to (bestow) profit on you they will not profit you except with what was determined for you by Allah, and if they gathered to harm you they will not harm you except with what has been determined for you by Allah; Pen lifted, papers dried, it is fixed nothing in these truths can be changed" Saheeh Al-Jame' As-Sagheer. Our youths took note of the meaning of the poetic verse:

    "if death is a predetermined must, then it is a shame to die cowardly."

    and the other poet saying:

    " Who do not die by the sword will die for other reasons; many causes are there but one death".

    These youths believe in what has been told by Allah and His messenger (Allah's Blessings and Salutations may be on him) about the greatness of the reward for the Mujahideen and Martyrs; Allah, the most exalted said: {and -so far- those who are slain in the way of Allah, He will by no means allow their deeds to perish. He will guide them and improve their condition. and cause them to enter the garden -paradise- which He has made known to them}. (Muhammad; 47:4-6). Allah the Exalted also said: {and do not speak of those who are slain in Allah's way as dead; nay -they are- alive, but you do not perceive} (Bagarah; 2:154). His messenger (Allah's Blessings and Salutations may be on him) said: "for those who strive in His cause Allah prepared hundred degrees (levels) in paradise; in-between two degrees as the in-between heaven and earth". Saheeh Al-Jame' As-Sagheer. He (Allah's Blessings and Salutations may be on him) also said: "the best of the martyrs are those who do NOT turn their faces away from the battle till they are killed. They are in the high level of Jannah (paradise). Their Lord laughs to them ( in pleasure) and when your Lord laughs to a slave of His, He will not hold him to an account". narrated by Ahmad with correct and trustworthy reference. And : "a martyr will not feel the pain of death except like how you feel when you are pinched". Saheeh Al-Jame' As-Sagheer. He also said : "a martyr privileges are guaranteed by Allah; forgiveness with the first gush of his blood, he will be shown his seat in paradise, he will be decorated with the jewels of belief (Imaan), married off to the beautiful ones, protected from the test in the grave, assured security in the day of judgement, crowned with the crown of dignity, a ruby of which is better than this whole world (Duniah) and its' entire content, wedded to seventy two of the pure Houries (beautiful ones of Paradise) and his intercession on the behalf of seventy of his relatives will be accepted". narrated by Ahmad and At-Tirmithi (with the correct and trustworthy reference).

    Those youths know that their rewards in fighting you, the USA, is double than their rewards in fighting some one else not from the people of the book. They have no intention except to enter paradise by killing you. An infidel, and enemy of God like you, cannot be in the same hell with his righteous executioner.

    Our youths chanting and reciting the word of Allah, the most exalted: {fight them; Allah will punish them by your hands and bring them to disgrace, and assist you against them and heal the heart of a believing people} (At-Taubah; 9:14) and the words of the prophet (ALLAH'S BLESSING AND SALUTATIONS ON HIM): "I swear by Him, who has my soul in His hand, that no man get killed fighting them today, patiently attacking and not retreating ,surely Allah will let him into paradise". And his (Allah's Blessings and Salutations may be on him) saying to them: "get up to a paradise as wide as heaven and earth".

    The youths also reciting the All Mighty words of: {so when you meet in battle those who disbelieve, then smite the necks........} (Muhammad; 47:19).

    Those youths will not ask you (William Perry) for explanations, they will tell you singing

    there is nothing between us need to be explained, there is only killing and neck smiting.

    And they will say to you what their grand father, Haroon Ar-Rasheed, Ameer-ul-Mu'meneen, replied to your grandfather, Nagfoor, the Byzantine emperor, when he threatened the Muslims: "from Haroon Ar-Rasheed, Ameer-ul-Mu'meneen, to Nagfoor, the dog of the Romans; the answer is what you will see not what you hear". Haroon El-Rasheed led the armies of Islam to the battle and handed Nagfoor a devastating defeat.

    The youths you called cowards are competing among themselves for fighting and killing you. reciting what one of them said:

    The crusader army became dust when we detonated al-Khobar With courageous youth of Islam fearing no danger If (they are) threatened: The tyrants will kill you, they reply my death is a victory I did not betrayed that king, he did betray our Qiblah And he permitted in the holy country the most filthy sort of humans. I have made an oath by Allah, the Great, to fight who ever rejected the faith

    For more than a decade, they carried arms on their shoulders in Afghanistan and they have made vows to Allah that as long as they are alive, they will continue to carry arms against you until you are -Allah willing- expelled, defeated and humiliated, they will carry on as long as they live saying:

    O William, tomorrow you will know which young man is confronting your misguided brethren! A youth fighting in smile, returning with the spear coloured red.

    May Allah keep me close to knights, humans in peace, demons in war. Lions in Jungle but their teeth are spears and Indian swords. The horses witness that I push them hard forwarded in the fire of battle. The dust of the battle bears witnesses for me, so also the fighting itself, the pens and the books!

    So to abuse the grandsons of the companions, may Allah be pleased with them, by calling them cowards and challenging them by refusing to leave the land of the two Holy Places shows the insanity and the imbalance you are suffering from. Its appropriate 'remedy ,however, is in the hands of the youths of Islam, as the poet said:

    I am willing to sacrifice self and wealth for knights who never disappointed me Knights who are never fed up or deterred by death, even if the mill of war turns In the heat of battle they do not care, and cure the insanity of the enemy by their 'insane' courage.

    Terrorising you, while you are carrying arms on our land, is a legitimate and morally demanded duty. It is a legitimate right well known to all humans and other creatures. Your example and our example is like a snake which entered into a house of a man and got killed by him. The coward is the one who lets you walk, while carrying arms, freely on his land and provides you with peace and security.

    Those youths are different from your soldiers. Your problem will be how to convince your troops to fight, while our problem will be how to restrain our youths to wait for their turn in fighting and in operations. These youths are worthy of commendation and praise. They stood up tall to defend the religion; at the time when the government misled the prominent scholars and tricked them into issuing Fatwas (that have no basis neither in the book of Allah, nor in the Sunnah of His prophet (Allah's Blessings and Salutations may be on him)) of opening the land of the two Holy Places for the Christians armies and handing the Al-Aqsa Mosque to the Zionists. Twisting the meanings of the holy text will not change this fact at all. They deserve the praise of the poet:

    I rejected all the critics, who chose the wrong way I rejected those who enjoy fireplaces in clubs discussing eternally. I rejected those, who in spite of being lost, think they are at the goal, I respect those who carried on not asking or bothering about the difficulties, never letting up from their goals, despite all hardships of the road, whose blood is the oil for the flame guiding in the darkness of confusion. I feel still the pain of (the loss) Al-Quds in my internal organs. That loss is like a burning fire in my intestines I did not betray my covenant with God, when even states did betray it!

    As their grandfather Assim Bin Thabit said rejecting a surrender offer of the pagans:

    "What for an excuse I had to surrender, while I am still able, having arrows and my bow having a tough string?! Death is truth and ultimate destiny, and life will end any way. If I do not fight you, then my mother must be insane!"

    The youths hold you responsible for all of the killings and evictions of the Muslims and the violation of the sanctities, carried out by your Zionist brothers in Lebanon; you openly supplied them with arms and finance. More than 600,000 Iraqi children have died due to lack of food and medicine and as a result of the unjustifiable aggression (sanction) imposed on Iraq and its nation. The children of Iraq are our children. You, the USA, together with the Saudi regime are responsible for the shedding of the blood of these innocent children. Due to all of that, what ever treaty you have with our country is now null and void. The treaty of Hudaybiyyah was cancelled by the messenger of Allah (Allah's Blessings and Salutations may be on him) once Quraysh had assisted Bani Bakr against Khusa'ah , the allies of the prophet (Allah's Blessings and Salutations may be on him). The prophet (Allah's Blessings and Salutations may be on him) fought Quraysh and concurred Makka. He (Allah's Blessings and Salutations may be on him) considered the treaty with Bani Qainuqa' void because one of their Jews publicly hurt one Muslim woman, one single woman, at the market. Let alone then, the killing you caused to hundred of thousands Muslims and occupying their sanctities. It is now clear that those who claim that the blood of the American solders (the enemy occupying the land of the Muslims) should be protected are merely repeating what is imposed on them by the regime; fearing the aggression and interested in saving themselves. It is a duty now on every tribe in the Arab Peninsula to fight, Jihad, in the cause of Allah and to cleanse the land from those occupiers. Allah knows that there blood is permitted (to be spilled) and their wealth is a booty; their wealth is a booty to those who kill them. The most Exalted said in the verse of As-Sayef, The Sword: {so when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters where ever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush} (At-Tauba; 9:5). Our youths knew that the humiliation suffered by the Muslims as a result of the occupation of their sanctities can not be kicked and removed except by explosions and Jihad. As the poet said:

    The walls of oppression and humiliation cannot be demolished except in a rain of bullets. The freeman does not surrender leadership to infidels and sinners Without shedding blood no degradation and branding can be removed from the forehead.

    I remind the youths of the Islamic world, who fought in Afghanistan and Bosnia-Herzegovina with their wealth, pens, tongues and themselves that the battle had not finished yet. I remind them about the talk between Jibreel (Gabriel) and the messenger of Allah (Allah's Blessings and Salutations may be on both of them) after the battle of Ahzab when the messenger of Allah (Allah's Blessings and Salutations may be on him) returned to Medina and before putting his sword aside; when Jibreel (Allah's Blessings and Salutations may be on him) descend saying: "are you putting your sword aside? by Allah the angels haven't dropped their arms yet; march with your companions to Bani Quraydah, I am (going) ahead of you to throw fears in their hearts and to shake their fortresses on them." Jibreel marched with the angels (Allah's Blessings and Salutations may be on them all), followed by the messenger of Allah (Allah's Blessings and Salutations may be on him) marching with the immigrants, Muhajeroon, and supporters, Ansar. (narrated by Al-Bukhary).

    These youths know that: if one is not to be killed one will die (anyway) and the most honourable death is to be killed in the way of Allah. They are even more determined after the martyrdom of the four heroes who bombed the Americans in Riyadh. Those youths who raised high the head of the Ummah and humiliated the Americans-the occupier- by their operation in Riyadh. They remember the poetry of Ja'far, the second commander in the battle of Mu'tah, in which three thousand Muslims faced over a hundred thousand Romans:

    How good is the Paradise and its nearness, good with cool drink, But the Romans are promised punishment (in Hell), if I meet them I will fight them.

    And the poetry of Abdullah Bin Rawaha, the third commander in the battle of Mu'tah, after the martyrdom of Ja'far, when he felt some hesitation:

    O my soul if you do not get killed, you are going to die, anyway. This is death pool in front of you! You are getting what you have wished for (martyrdom) before, and you follow the example of the two previous commanders you are rightly guided!

    As for our daughters, wives, sisters and mothers, they should take prime example from the prophet (Allah's Blessings and Salutations may be on him) pious female companions, may Allah be pleased with them; they should adopt the life style (Seerah) of the female companions of courage, sacrifice and generosity in the cause of the supremacy of Allah's religion. They should remember the courage and the personality of Fatima, daughter of Khatab, when she accepted Islam and stood up in front of her brother, Omar Ibn Al-Khatab and challenged him (before he became a Muslim) saying: "O Omar , what will you do if the truth is not in your religion?!"

    And to remember the stand of Asma', daughter of Abu Bakr, on the day of Hijra, when she attended the Messenger and his companion in the cave and split her belt in two pieces for them. And to remember the stand of Naseeba Bent Ka'b striving to defend the messenger of Allah (Allah's Blessings and Salutations may be on him) on the day of Uhud, in which she suffered twelve injuries, one of which was so deep leaving a deep lifelong scar! They should remember the generosity of the early woman of Islam who raised finance for the Muslims army by selling their jewellery. Our women had set a tremendous example of generosity in the cause of Allah; they motivated and encouraged their sons, brothers and husbands to fight- in the cause of Allah- in Afghanistan, Bosnia-Herzegovina, Chechenia and in other countries. We ask Allah to accept from them these deeds, and may He help their fathers, brothers, husbands and sons. May Allah strengthen the belief - Imaan - of our women in the way of generosity and sacrifice for the supremacy of the word of Allah. Our women weep not, except over men who fight in the cause of Allah; our women instigate their brothers to fight in the cause of Allah.

    Our women bemoan only fighters in the cause of Allah, as said:

    Do not moan on any one except a lion in the woods, courageous in the burning wars Let me die dignified in wars, honourable death is better than my current life

    Our women encourage to Jihad saying:

    Prepare yourself like a struggler, the matter is bigger than words! Are you going to leave us else for the wolves of Kufr eating our wings?! The wolves of Kufr are mobilising all evil persons from every where! Where are the freemen defending free women by the arms?! Death is better than life in humiliation! Some scandals and shames will never be otherwise eradicated.

    My Muslim Brothers of The World:

    Your brothers in Palestine and in the land of the two Holy Places are calling upon your help and asking you to take part in fighting against the enemy -your enemy and their enemy- the Americans and the Israelis. They are asking you to do whatever you can, with your own means and ability, to expel the enemy, humiliated and defeated, out of the sanctities of Islam. Exalted be to Allah said in His book: { and if they ask your support, because they are oppressed in their faith, then support them!} (Anfaal; 8:72)

    O you horses (soldiers) of Allah ride and march on. This is the time of hardship so be tough. And know that your gathering and co-operation in order to liberate the sanctities of Islam is the right step toward unifying the word of the Ummah under the banner of "No God but Allah" ).

    From our place we raise our palms humbly to Allah asking Him to bestow on us His guide in every aspects of this issue. Our Lord, we ask you to secure the release of the truthful scholars, Ulama, of Islam and pious youths of the Ummah from their imprisonment. O Allah, strengthen them and help their families.

    Our Lord, the people of the cross had come with their horses (soldiers) and occupied the land of the two Holy places. And the Zionist Jews fiddling as they wish with the Al-Aqsa Mosque, the route of the ascendance of the messenger of Allah (ALLAH'S BLESSING AND SALUTATIONS ON HIM). Our Lord, shatter their gathering, divide them among themselves, shaken the earth under their feet and give us control over them; Our Lord, we take refuge in you from their deeds and take you as a shield between us and them Our Lord, show us a black day in them! Our Lord, show us the wonderment of your ability in them! Our Lord, You are the Revealer of the book, Director of the clouds, You defeated the allies (Ahzab); defeat them and make us victorious over them. Our Lord, You are the one who help us and You are the one who assist us, with Your Power we move and by Your Power we fight. On You we rely and You are our cause. Our Lord, those youths got together to make Your religion victorious and raise Your banner. Our Lord, send them Your help and strengthen their hearts. Our Lord, make the youths of Islam steadfast and descend patience on them and guide their shots! Our Lord, unify the Muslims and bestow love among their hearts! Our Lord, pour down upon us patience, and make our steps firm and assist us against the unbelieving people! Our Lord, do not lay on us a burden as Thou didst lay on those before us; Our Lord, do not impose upon us that which we have no strength to bear; and pardon us and grant us protection and have mercy on us, Thou art our patron, so help us against the unbelieving people. Our Lord, guide this Ummah, and make the right conditions (by which) the people of your obedience will be in dignity and the people of disobedience in humiliation, and by which the good deeds are enjoined and the bad deeds are forebode. Our Lord, bless Muhammad, Your slave and messenger, his family and descendants, and companions and salute him with a (becoming) salutation. And our last supplication is: All praise is due to Allah .

    Usamah bin Muhammad bin Laden Friday, 9/4/1417 A.H (23/8/1996 AD) Hindukush Mountains, Khurasan, Afghanistan.

    **Text Supplied by : Muhammad A. S. Al-Mass'ari; CDLR (Committee For the Defence of Civil Rights in Saudi Arabia)
    Also PBS's NewHour......Here is PBS's NewHour on the AQ's second Declaration Of War as a follow up to the first. Here is the declaration in full text:

    Praise be to God, who revealed the Book, controls the clouds, defeats factionalism, and says in His Book: "But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the pagans wherever ye find them, seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war)"; and peace be upon our Prophet, Muhammad Bin-'Abdallah, who said: I have been sent with the sword between my hands to ensure that no one but God is worshipped, God who put my livelihood under the shadow of my spear and who inflicts humiliation and scorn on those who disobey my orders.
    The Arabian Peninsula has never -- since God made it flat, created its desert, and encircled it with seas -- been stormed by any forces like the crusader armies spreading in it like locusts, eating its riches and wiping out its plantations. All this is happening at a time in which nations are attacking Muslims like people fighting over a plate of food. In the light of the grave situation and the lack of support, we and you are obliged to discuss current events, and we should all agree on how to settle the matter.

    No one argues today about three facts that are known to everyone; we will list them, in order to remind everyone:

    First, for over seven years the United States has been occupying the lands of Islam in the holiest of places, the Arabian Peninsula, plundering its riches, dictating to its rulers, humiliating its people, terrorizing its neighbors, and turning its bases in the Peninsula into a spearhead through which to fight the neighboring Muslim peoples.

    If some people have in the past argued about the fact of the occupation, all the people of the Peninsula have now acknowledged it. The best proof of this is the Americans' continuing aggression against the Iraqi people using the Peninsula as a staging post, even though all its rulers are against their territories being used to that end, but they are helpless.

    Second, despite the great devastation inflicted on the Iraqi people by the crusader-Zionist alliance, and despite the huge number of those killed, which has exceeded 1 million... despite all this, the Americans are once against trying to repeat the horrific massacres, as though they are not content with the protracted blockade imposed after the ferocious war or the fragmentation and devastation.

    So here they come to annihilate what is left of this people and to humiliate their Muslim neighbors. Third, if the Americans' aims behind these wars are religious and economic, the aim is also to serve the Jews' petty state and divert attention from its occupation of Jerusalem and murder of Muslims there. The best proof of this is their eagerness to destroy Iraq, the strongest neighboring Arab state, and their endeavor to fragment all the states of the region such as Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, and Sudan into paper statelets and through their disunion and weakness to guarantee Israel's survival and the continuation of the brutal crusade occupation of the Peninsula.

    All these crimes and sins committed by the Americans are a clear declaration of war on God, his messenger, and Muslims. And ulema have throughout Islamic history unanimously agreed that the jihad is an individual duty if the enemy destroys the Muslim countries. This was revealed by Imam Bin-Qadamah in "Al- Mughni," Imam al-Kisa'i in "Al-Bada'i," al-Qurtubi in his interpretation, and the shaykh of al-Islam in his books, where he said: "As for the fighting to repulse [an enemy], it is aimed at defending sanctity and religion, and it is a duty as agreed [by the ulema]. Nothing is more sacred than belief except repulsing an enemy who is attacking religion and life." On that basis, and in compliance with God's order, we issue the following fatwa to all Muslims:

    The ruling to kill the Americans and their allies -- civilians and military -- is an individual duty for every Muslim who can do it in any country in which it is possible to do it, in order to liberate the al-Aqsa Mosque and the holy mosque [Mecca] from their grip, and in order for their armies to move out of all the lands of Islam, defeated and unable to threaten any Muslim. This is in accordance with the words of Almighty God, "and fight the pagans all together as they fight you all together," and "fight them until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in God."

    This is in addition to the words of Almighty God: "And why should ye not fight in the cause of God and of those who, being weak, are ill-treated (and oppressed)? -- women and children, whose cry is: 'Our Lord, rescue us from this town, whose people are oppressors; and raise for us from thee one who will help!'"

    We -- with God's help -- call on every Muslim who believes in God and wishes to be rewarded to comply with God's order to kill the Americans and plunder their money wherever and whenever they find it. We also call on Muslim ulema, leaders, youths, and soldiers to launch the raid on Satan's U.S. troops and the devil's supporters allying with them, and to displace those who are behind them so that they may learn a lesson.

    Almighty God said: "O ye who believe, give your response to God and His Apostle, when He calleth you to that which will give you life. And know that God cometh between a man and his heart, and that it is He to whom ye shall all be gathered."

    Almighty God also says: "O ye who believe, what is the matter with you, that when ye are asked to go forth in the cause of God, ye cling so heavily to the earth! Do ye prefer the life of this world to the hereafter? But little is the comfort of this life, as compared with the hereafter. Unless ye go forth, He will punish you with a grievous penalty, and put others in your place; but Him ye would not harm in the least. For God hath power over all things."

    Almighty God also says: "So lose no heart, nor fall into despair. For ye must gain mastery if ye are true in faith."

    By following the sentiment that we "deserved" and "asked for" attacks against the US and citizens of West here are the attacks that have happened or were planned and foiled against the US and the West after their declaration of war was issued:

    Al-Qaida timeline: Plots and attacks
    -- June 25, 1996

    In an attack whose authorship is still debated by intelligence and law enforcement officials, a truck bomb is detonated at the Khobar Towers complex in Saudi Arabia, killing 19 American servicemen and wounding 400. Although an indictment in early 2001 pins blame on Shiite Muslims backed by Iran, many U.S. officials still believe bin Laden is responsible. Bin Laden himself states in a 1997 interview, “Only Americans were killed in the explosions. No Saudi suffered any injury. When I got the news about these blasts, I was very happy.”

    --Aug. 8, 1998

    Al-Qaida sends suicide bombers into the U.S. embassies in Nairobi, Kenya, and Dar es Salaam, Tanzania. Truck bombs kill more than 240 people, including 12 Americans at the Nairobi embassy. The attack results in the quick arrest of several of the bombers, but not the mastermind, Fazul Abdullah Mohammed. Also known as “Harun,” Mohammed is involved in later al-Qaida attacks.

    --Jan. 1-3, 2000

    U.S. and Jordanian authorities thwart attacks planned to coincide with the Millennium celebrations. In mid-December, Jordanian authorities arrest more than 20 al-Qaida operatives who are planning to bomb three locations where American tourists gather: Mt. Nebo, where Moses first saw the Promised Land; the Ramada Hotel in Amman, a stopover for tour groups; and the spot on the Jordan River where tradition holds John the Baptist baptized Christ. Later in the month, U.S. authorities seize Ahmed Ressam at a border crossing in Port Angeles, WA. He is carrying bomb-making equipment and later discusses his plan to blow up Los Angeles International Airport on New Year's Eve.

    -- Jan. 13, 2000

    The cross Africa Dakar-to-Cairo auto race is diverted after the U.S. intelligence community receives word of a planned ambush in the African nation of Niger. Word of the planned ambush was passed to race organizers over the weekend shortly after it was received, leading to a suspension of the race and a massive airlift on Thursday. Cargo planes were flying some 1,365 crew members and 336 vehicles as well as tons of equipment from Niamey, capital of Niger, to Sabha in southern Libya.

    -- Oct. 12, 2000

    A bomb on board a small Zodiac-like boat detonates near the USS Cole in the port of Aden in Yemen, killing 17 U.S. sailors and wounding scores more. The bombing also kills two al-Qaida operatives in the boat. The United States later learns the Cole was the second destroyer targeted by al-Qaida. The attack was originally planned for Jan. 3, 2000, when the USS The Sullivans was in the same port.

    -- Sept. 9, 2001

    Two Moroccan men, posing as television journalists, kill themselves and Ahmad Shah Massoud, leader of the Northern Alliance, at the alliance headquarters in the Panjshir Valley of Afghanistan. The killing of Massoud may have been the first part of the Sept. 11 attacks.

    --Sept. 11, 2001

    Three hijacked planes are flown into major U.S. landmarks, destroying New York's World Trade Center towers and plowing into the Pentagon. A fourth hijacked plane crashes in rural Pennsylvania, its target believed to have been the U.S. Capitol. At least 3,044 people are killed. The death toll is nearly 10 times greater than any other terrorist attack in history and makes bin Laden, for the first time, a household name in the United States and the west.

    --Dec. 22, 2001

    Passengers and crew of an American Airlines flight from Paris to Miami subdue Richard Reid after he attempts to light a bomb hidden inside his shoe. Some in U.S. intelligence community believe the bombing was last vestige of a larger plan that included the attacks on New York and Washington as well as bombings of other airliners over the oceans.

    --Jan. 31, 2002

    Pakistani militants behead Wall Street Journal reporter Daniel Pearl in Karachi after holding him for several days. U.S. officials report there is evidence Khalid Sheik Mohammed. Al-Qaida’s operations chief, may have played a role in his kidnapping and murder. Pearl is shown on a tape being beheaded.

    -- March 17, 2002

    Islamic militants attack the Protestant International Church in Islamabad, killing five. Among those killed were Americans Barbara Green and her daughter Kristen Wormsley. Pakistani officials blame al-Qaida.

    --March 20, 2002

    Nine people are killed and 30 wounded in a car bomb explosion near the U.S. Embassy in Lima. Peru.

    --April 11, 2002

    A suicide bomber explodes a truck near the El Ghriba synagogue on the southern Tunisian island of Djerba, killing 14 Germans, five Tunisians and a Frenchman. Khalid Sheik Mohammed and Saad bin Laden, Osama bin Laden's third youngest son, are believed behind the attack.

    --May 8, 2002

    A suspected suicide bomber in a car kills himself near a bus carrying 11 French navy experts and three Pakistanis outside the Sheraton Hotel in the southern Pakistani city of Karachi.

    --May 2002

    Moroccan police arrest three Saudi nationals who were allegedly planning attacks against U.S. and British warships in the Strait of Gibraltar. The men are arrested in May and claim to belong to the al-Qaida network. Moroccan officials say the suspects planned to sail a dinghy loaded with explosives from Morocco into the strait to attack the vessels.

    --June 14, 2002

    Another suicide car bomber detonates a bomb outside the U.S. consulate in Karachi, killing at least 11 people and wounding 45. No Americans is killed. The bomb is in the trunk of a moving car. The car's passengers, Pakistani nursing students, are unaware of the bomb.

    --Sept. 5, 2002

    Afghan President Hamid Karzai survives an assassination attempt when shots are fired into the presidential limousine. Karzai was on his way to a wedding celebration in Kandahar. He is not hurt but one of this U.S. bodyguards and the governor of Kandahar are wounded. The attack comes just after a car bomb exploded near two government offices in Kabul, killing 22 people.

    --Oct. 5, 2002

    A small boat sidles up to the SS Limburg, a French tanker off al-Mukalla, Yemen, and detonates a bomb. One crew member drowns and 24 are rescued.

    --Oct. 8, 2002

    Two U.S. Marines are killed in Kuwait in the early stages of the U.S. military buildup in preparation for the invasion of Iraq. The Marines were attacked on Faylaka Island, about 12 miles north of Kuwait City.

    --Oct. 12, 2002

    Bombs explode in Kuta Beach nightclub district of Bali in Indonesia, killing 202 people and wounding hundreds. Five Americans are among the dead. A third bomb explodes near the U.S. Consulate in Sanur near Kuta, without causing casualties. Bombers later admit they expected many more American casualties. The bombing highlights the reach of al-Qaida.

    --Oct. 28, 2002

    A group of al-Qaida operatives kills U.S. AID worker Laurence Foley, 62, outside his home as he prepared to leave for work. Foley’s attackers are arrested by Jordanian officials in December.

    --Nov. 28, 2002

    At least 15 people are killed in car bomb attack on hotel frequented by Israeli tourists in Kenyan port of Mombasa. On the same day, two missiles are fired at but miss an Israeli airliner taking off from the city. Fazul Abdullah Mohammed, mastermind of the 1998 embassy bombings, is sought by Kenyan officials in the attacks.

    --May 12, 2003

    Suicide bombers in vehicles shoot their way into housing compounds for expatriates in Saudi capital of Riyadh so they can set off bombs. Some 35 people, including nine Americans, are killed. The attacks are a watershed for the Saudi government, which for years had thought al-Qaida would not attack the kingdom. As a result of the attacks, cooperation between the U.S. and Saudi governments grows rapidly.

    --May 16, 2003

    Suicide bombers using cars or explosive belts set off at least five blasts in Casablanca, Morocco, killing 44 people, including 12 bombers, and wounding about 60. The deaths of 17 bombers in Saudi and 12 in Morocco suggest that al-Qaida is having no trouble recruiting suicide bombers.

    --June 7, 2003

    A suicide car bomber blows up a bus full of German peacekeepers, killing four and wounding 31 east of Kabul. An Afghan civilian and the bomber are also killed.

    --Aug. 5, 2003

    A huge truck bomb kills 16 people and wounds 150 as it rips through Marriott Hotel in the Indonesian capital Jakarta. One foreigner, a Dutch businessman, is among the dead.

    --Nov. 8, 2003

    In an attack reminiscent of al-Qaida's May attack, suicide bombers backed by gunmen enter a residential compound in Riyadh detonate two car bombs, killing 17, among them 5 children, and wounding 122. The attack uses vehicles disguised to look like police cars. U.S. and Saudi intelligence services had warned of a possible attack in the days before, even thwarting an attack in Mecca.

    --Nov. 15, 2003

    At least 29 people are killed and scores were injured in near simultaneous explosions at two Istanbul synagogues, the first al-Qaida attack against Muslim Turkey, a NATO member and military ally of Israel. One blast occurs outside the Neve Shalom synagogue in the historic Beyoglu district in the heart of Istanbul. Another goes off close to another synagogue in the nearby neighborhood of Sisli. An small Turkish militant group aligned with Al-Qaida takes responsibility for the attack.

    --Nov. 20, 2003

    The Istanbul headquarters of London-based bank HSBC and the British consulate in the Turkish city are targeted in similar attacks, with a total of 32 people killed in the twin blasts. The blasts replicate the twin attacks five days earlier against Istanbul synagogues in that both used “drive by bombings,” in which bomb-laden trucks are detonated by suicide bombers as the vehicle moves past the target.

    --Dec. 4, 2003

    Maj. Gen. Abdelaziz al-Huweirini, the No. 3 official in Saudi Arabia's Interior Ministry and the kingdom's top counterterrorism official, is moderately wounded in an attack. Huweirini has worked closely with American officials. It is one of at least three such attacks or assassination attempts on Saudi intelligence service officials in December. No one has been killed in the attacks, which are in retaliation for the stepup in Saudi operations against al-Qaida.

    --Dec. 14, 2003

    Pakistani President Pervez Musharaff barely escapes death as his presidential motorcade travels over a bridge in Rawalpindi. The president is saved because of a jamming device on his car which scrambles signals on frequencies used to detonate remotely controlled bombs. The bomb detonates 30 seconds after the motorcade passes by. It is estimated to have weighed 1,000 pounds. The sophistication of the attack seems to indicate an “inside job.” Pakistani officials publicly blame al-Qaida for the attack, noting that 10 weeks earlier, Ayman Zawahiri called for Muslims to “topple” Musharraf’s regime.

    --Dec. 25, 2003

    Two pick-up trucks packed with explosives ram into Pakistani President Musharraf's cavalcade from opposite sides of the road while he returns from Islamabad to his official residence at Army House in Rawalpindi. Musharraf was not hurt, but three vehicles at the tail end of the convoy are destroyed. Several policemen on security duty are killed and more than fifty others wounded.

    --Feb. 6, 2004

    A suicide bomber detonates a bulk explosive at the deepest point in the Moscow Metro, killing 40 people. The attack is believed to be the work of a Saudi militant Abu Walid, whose financing of Chechen rebels has given him great power within the movement to free the breakaway Russian republic. The attack occurs near the Avtozavodskaya metro station and is supposedly a revenge attack for Russian troops atrocities against Chechen civilians in the town on Alda four years to the day earlier.

    --Feb. 27, 2004

    A bomb onboard a Philippines ferry detonates, starting a fire that kills at least 100 people on their way from Manila to Bacolod in the central Philippines. The ferry was carrying around 860 people when two hours into the trip an explosion ripped the ferry, leading to a fire that quickly engulfed it. Abu Sayef, the al-Qaida affiliate, initially claims responsibility although the Philippines government denies the explosion was the result of a bombing. Later U.S. officials say the bombing was deliberate, not accidental.

    --March 11, 2004

    A co-ordinated bombing of trains in Madrid leaves more than 190 people dead and hundreds wounded. The attack, which leads to the unexpected fall of the pro-U.S. government of Anzar, is blamed on Morrocan terrorists with close links to al-Qaida. According to investigators, the attack was carried out not by al-Qaida or even an affiliate, but instead by radical Muslims who identified with al-Qaida and were led by a charismatic figure.

    --April 5, 2004

    The mastermind of the March 11 attacks and five others blow themselves up in a Madrid apartment building, killing a special policeman as well. Explosives discovered in the building where the five killed themselves to avoid capture indicate they were plotting more violence and were linked to the failed bombing of a high-speed rail line Friday. Two or three suspects may have escaped before blast.

    --April 21, 2004

    A suicide bomber kills five people, including two senior Saudi police officers and an 11-year-old girl, in an attack on a government building in Riyadh. An Islamic militant group, the al-Haramin Brigades, claims responsibility.

    --May 1, 2004

    Attack on oil refinery in Yanbu, Saudi Arabia, in which gunmen target senior executive at the facility, partly owned by ExxonMobil. Five foreigners are killed, including two Americans.

    --May 20, 2004

    Saudi security forces clash with five suspected Islamic militants near Buraida, killing four and wounding the fifth.

    --May 30, 2004
    Miilitants go on a shooting rampage at two oil industry office/residential compounds in the Persian Gulf coast city of Khobar, killing 22 people, mostly foreigners including one American.

    --Dec. 6, 2004
    Al-Qaida claims responsibility for an attack on the U.S. Consulate in Jiddah, Saudi Arabia, that left five non-American employees dead.

    --Dec. 12, 2004

    A bomb exploded in a Philippine market packed with Christmas shoppers Sunday, killing at least 15 people and shattering a months long lull in terror attacks in the volatile southern Philippines, where Muslim rebels are active.

    The homemade bomb, concealed in a box, went off in the meat section of the market in General Santos, about 620 miles south of Manila. Officials immediately bolstered security in the predominantly Christian port city of 500,000 people, fearing more attacks.

    --Dec. 29, 2004

    Al-Qaida operatives launch an attack on Saudi Arabia's Ministry of Interior in Riyadh, hoping to topple the ministry's inverted pyramid structure.The attack fails with seven terrorists killed and one ministry officer seriously wounded.

    --June 20, 2004

    U.S. and Afghan authorities disclose the arrest of four Pakistani men on charges they were plotting the assassination of Zalmay Khalilizad, the US ambassador to Kabul.

    —June 15, 2005

    Chechen rebels try to derail a train on its way from Grozny to Moscow. The train derails, but only 15 people are injured.

    —July 7, 2005

    Four suicide bombers detonate bombs on London Underground trains and a double-decker bus, killing 56 people in the worst terrorist attack ever in the UK and the greatest civilian loss of life since the blitz more than 60 years ago. The bombers are all British nationals and three are British born. Three are of Pakistani descent, the fourth a Jamaican who converted to Islam.

    July 21, 2005

    Two weeks after the first Underground bombing, four other would-be suicide bombers attempt an identical attack on three trains and a bus. The bombs fail to go off and wound only one passenger. Within days, all four men are identified and arrested. Again, all are British nationals, this time of East African descent.

    —July 23, 2005

    Three bombs detonate in the Egyptian resort city of Sharm el-Sheikh, killing 63, the worst terrorist attack in that country’s history. Two of the bombs detonated at resort hotels favored by Western tourists while the third went off in the city’s marketplace. Egyptian authorities rounded up a number of suspects and later killed one of the country’s leading Islamists in a shootout.

    —Aug. 19, 2005

    Attackers fire Katushka rockets in the Jordanian port city of Aqaba, narrowly missing a U.S. Navy ship, and killing a Jordanian security man in a dockside warehouse. Two rockets are fired into the nearby Israeli port city of Eliat, causing minor damage.
    Last edited by HobbesIsReal; 05/20/2007 at 02:47 PM.
  17. #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by treobk214 View Post
    That CANT be a real photo! Is it?

    I understand every culture has its nuances and traditions, but THAT is ridiculous.
    You're right. It's photoshopped.

    The people who claim to think independently accept and repeat the lies of the far left. You're not an independent thinker if you don't check your facts. This is why Michael Moore has been so successful in shaping people's views.

    Here's the original AP photo:

    Note that the altered version cuts off Bush's arm and the windshield wiper in the background, and while Bush's head is in exactly the same position, the roof rack by his forehead has disappeared.
  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by moderateinny View Post
    The whole nation cried and then backed a justifiable war into Afghanistan to seek and destroy those responsible for 911. If only we had kept our resources concentrated on that effort....but I digress.
    Revenge alone is not a good justification for war.
  19. #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by samkim View Post
    You're right. It's photoshopped.

    The people who claim to think independently accept and repeat the lies of the far left. You're not an independent thinker if you don't check your facts. This is why Michael Moore has been so successful in shaping people's views.

    Here's the original AP photo:

    Note that the altered version cuts off Bush's arm and the windshield wiper in the background, and while Bush's head is in exactly the same position, the roof rack by his forehead has disappeared.
    My bad. I googled it using their image search and should have checked it.

    Doesn't change my view on how cozy we are with the Saudi's though.
  20. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by moderateinny View Post
    Doesn't change my view on how cozy we are with the Saudi's though.
    For a long time IMHO it has been a relationship of convenience and working for the moment with a lesser evil (i.e. terrorist supporter) that is willing to work with us (on many different levels) vs a greater evil (terrorist supporter) who won't. But it has been this way for the for the last 20 plus years.
    Last edited by HobbesIsReal; 05/20/2007 at 06:20 PM.
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