[gbp]

the king of the jungle only covers double digit market share...there is plenty of room for the pre without the iphone losing sales. Why do people keep insinuating that its one or the other?

yup

9 out of 10 i.e. 90% of current sprint customers might not be smartphone users

[gbp]

Um...no.

Android isn't that much of a blockbuster, even for T-Mobile. Sense UI or no, there's no one handset that will help Sprint. It's got to be a series of shots coupled with Sprint getting out of its own way.



1) Launching a device with insufficient inventory.

2) The mail-in rebate.

3) Redo the Everything plans.

There are a lot of other little steps they could take (e.g. making the Premier program mean something, train CSRs not too put out so much disinformation, etc.) to make things easier, but these are the major hurdles they gotta clear so that they can add subscribers. There should be no way in hell that it is easier and less taxing to buy an iPhone on day one than it is a Pre. Yet for all of Sprint's crowing about what you save over a year, it IS more expensive and more difficult to buy an iPhone on day one than it is a Pre.

Android is ready for prime time, watch out the recent development on it by xda developers forum. I rest my argument on this.

Regarding launching the device with enough inventory , it was only two weeks the demand lasted. This is not a big deal. I don't think the phone attracted enough dumb phone users to convert. iPhone did that

Mail in rebate , I might agree with you. Many folks don't bother sending the mail in rebate. They might have lost a customer there.

The third one is , I agree , but with a slight difference, instead of lumping everything with data plans , they could have started a "Pre " plan , sort of iPhone plan from ATT, but 20 -25 dollars as opposed to 30 bucks.

Overall, marketing lacked.
I remember non smartphone customers talking about Instinct last year, but haven't seen a single acquaintanceof mine talk about Pre.

[tyea]

I was an att customer until June 7th 2009, and I'm pleased with Sprint service, price, and the Palm Pre 3G usable geographic coverage in the Northwest, where I live. When on att/cingular/att (almost 10 years) my main 3G phone for the last 2 years was a RAZR 2 V9, a phone that supposedly had good reviews for radio reception, which by the way degraded in the 3G spectrum when the iphone 3G was introduced. So far I have no regrets switching providers.

[efudd]

It amazes me how illiterate most At&t or Vzn customers are...how badly they are being screwed. Sprint is not perfect and may not have the most coverage but they take care of their customers better than any carrier and have the best plans hands down! I love sprint and if I were forced to any other carrier I would probably return to a landline...well maybe not but I know the pre cheap hardware did kill alot of potential sales....here is looking forward to better sales for phones made with better build quality like HTC phones due out on Soon!?

Yeah that must be it- EVERYONE is stupid and sprint is the best in any situation.

Come on be realistic.

Personally I has sprint for many years- never had a problem. It’s a long story but we wound up switching to Verizon for my business and I’d never turn back.

It pains me to open my bill every month knowing how cheap sprint was- but bottom line the coverage on Verizon is that much better for us that it’s worth it.

Apparently about a million subs a year decide the same thing and leave sprint for the big V.

So I’m not illiterate or ignorant (like the many sprint fan boys who wrongly conclude that you can roam “anywhere that Verizon has a tower”)- I know my options and I choose Verizon.

I have no beef with sprint- and I’ll keep my mind open to them in the future. So I’m not anti sprint at all.

What does amaze me is how many other people have come to the same conclusion that I have for my business. If I had to put numbers to it a Verizon coverage is like 99% for us. Sprint was say maybe 97. But for that extra 2% I pay probably a 40% premium on my bill. To me it’s worth it- I’m amazed that so many other people think so too.

[mikesm]

"No one ever lost a dime underestimating the intelligence of the American public."

-- H.L. Mencken

Don't rely on people to make decision based on their own intelligence. Tell them what they want to hear, and then tell them what to do. The informed consumer is a rare thing, and they will typically be well researched and decide what they want based on their own ideals. The common uneducated consumer just wants to have "the best," and will typically listen to whomever they view as an authority.

Also, many people have had a lot of difficulties with the iPhone and AT&T, but they keep going back, even though things may not have worked at all. They are told it is the best thing out there right now.

I think many people in Sprint believe the same thing you do, that people are basically stupid, and if only they were smarter, they would choose ssprint. It is this attitude that is killing Sprint and responsible for the huge bleed of customers that is ongoing, and that the Pre will not change.

You can say how great Sprint's network is all you want, but the fact is that Sprint's coverage is notably worse than VZ's and AT&T's (in general). This is because only AT&T and VZ have <1 GHz spectrum assets that penetrate indoors. There is a reason why Sprint is pushing out so many airaves, and AT&T basically hasn't even started to ship their version.

Tests consistently show AT&T as best in 3G speeds overall. In some metro areas, they have issues, but overall, they test the best, better than VZ in fact.

AT&T's family plans also allow some users to pay for data and others to not, and there is not one size that fits all. Plus they have the benefit of iPhone exclusivity. The Pre's exclusivity on Sprint was only 6 months, and it could have been a lot longer, but they approached it in a half assed way.

Plus, UMTS enables simultaneous voice/data user, which CDMA networks do not. And AT&T and VZ are both rapidly moving to LTE, whereas Sprint has it's fate tied to wimax, a network that will never get deployed in scale, at least not in the US.

So in short, there are plenty of reasons that consumers choose AT&T and VZ and get better value than the cheaper option (though Sprint has no "cheap" Pre plan).

But so what? This is Precentral, not Sprint central. I couldn't give a rip about Sprint - I'll go back to AT&T in a heartbeat once they get the Pre...

[efudd]

Man these replies get even more amusing...when and if Vzn gets the pre it will be even more crippled..there was a post made about this a while back, search for it..good reading. If ur a Vzn customer you should already know how Vzn locks phones down to their limited software..have any phones with wifi? How is ur data plan working for you..minutes count against you monthly limit..how about SMS? Again just proves my point I made earlier about Vzn customers....move along son nothing for you here...

oh yeah wendell - like your "all knowing" post that the VZM pre will be croippled.

you are so ignorant that you dont even know that:

1) MANY recent model vz phones have WIFI. Nothing is locked down (honestly they have NO REASON to lock out wifi since they make you buy an unlimited data plan on any smart phone
2) data plan using minutes? What nonsense. EVERY SMART PHONE Put in service since the fall is REQUIRED to get an unlimted dataplan option. 30 bucks for personal 45 for business use
3) sms- how about it? unlimited SMS from to ANYONE is included on many (perhaps more than half) plans. And if you add a family or small business share phone for 10 bucks each then the shared phones also get the unlimted.

your ignorance, "son", is not helpfull to any serious conversation about the various carriers.

[efudd]

i don't get it either.... my Sprint service has been working great the last 4yrs... maybe it's because of where i'm using the phone primarily (ny,nj,ct)....

i can't remember when i last dropped a call, the data speeds are faster than verizon's too....

sure, the iphone is nice, but what's the point of having a smartphone if the at&t service it runs on is utter garbage...

i just don't get it.......

I cant figure it out either- I'm in Philly/ NJ/ NYC corridor and sprint service is pretty darn good here. Verizon is a smidge better in fringe areas but not insanely so. I had sprint for years and never had a customer service problem. I dont know why so many people hate them.

[efudd]

"No one ever lost a dime underestimating the intelligence of the American public."

-- H.L. Mencken

Don't rely on people to make decision based on their own intelligence. Tell them what they want to hear, and then tell them what to do. The informed consumer is a rare thing, and they will typically be well researched and decide what they want based on their own ideals. The common uneducated consumer just wants to have "the best," and will typically listen to whomever they view as an authority.

Also, many people have had a lot of difficulties with the iPhone and AT&T, but they keep going back, even though things may not have worked at all. They are told it is the best thing out there right now.

That generally holds true- that people beleive what they hear-but how do you explain verizon’s fortunes?

EVERYONE hears and KNOWS that they are the most expensive by far yet people pay it. Even their fanboys.

Can’t be their “it’s the network” blah blah because both sprint and ATT use similar stuff with different measure to say they have the best network. (Or maybe it’s because Verizon just ALWAYS says they have the best network where sprint tries all different approaches???)

[Complex Pants]

I think many people in Sprint believe the same thing you do, that people are basically stupid, and if only they were smarter, they would choose ssprint. It is this attitude that is killing Sprint and responsible for the huge bleed of customers that is ongoing, and that the Pre will not change.

You can say how great Sprint's network is all you want, but the fact is that Sprint's coverage is notably worse than VZ's and AT&T's (in general). This is because only AT&T and VZ have <1 GHz spectrum assets that penetrate indoors. There is a reason why Sprint is pushing out so many airaves, and AT&T basically hasn't even started to ship their version.

Tests consistently show AT&T as best in 3G speeds overall. In some metro areas, they have issues, but overall, they test the best, better than VZ in fact.

AT&T's family plans also allow some users to pay for data and others to not, and there is not one size that fits all. Plus they have the benefit of iPhone exclusivity. The Pre's exclusivity on Sprint was only 6 months, and it could have been a lot longer, but they approached it in a half assed way.

Plus, UMTS enables simultaneous voice/data user, which CDMA networks do not. And AT&T and VZ are both rapidly moving to LTE, whereas Sprint has it's fate tied to wimax, a network that will never get deployed in scale, at least not in the US.

So in short, there are plenty of reasons that consumers choose AT&T and VZ and get better value than the cheaper option (though Sprint has no "cheap" Pre plan).

But so what? This is Precentral, not Sprint central. I couldn't give a rip about Sprint - I'll go back to AT&T in a heartbeat once they get the Pre...

I was making a general statement about consumers. Sorry if I came on as saying "Sprint is the best and the smart people will choose it." For me, it seems to fit best. If it was not for the pre, I probably would have gotten an iPhone or Blackberry on another provider. When I bought my Pre I fully planned to use the 30 day trial period and if things didn't work I would return it.

However, as is it stands now, Sprint has the best prices, and their coverage works well for me in my area. And well, they have the Pre.

[vegito753]

That generally holds true- that people beleive what they hear-but how do you explain verizon’s fortunes?

EVERYONE hears and KNOWS that they are the most expensive by far yet people pay it. Even their fanboys.

Can’t be their “it’s the network” blah blah because both sprint and ATT use similar stuff with different measure to say they have the best network. (Or maybe it’s because Verizon just ALWAYS says they have the best network where sprint tries all different approaches???)

I'm in no way a Verizon fanboy, yet I have Verizon. I hate them. Everything about them. But since I live in a "fringe" area... they are the only provider that gives me a signal. I'm forced to wait until they get the Pre.

[Clack]

The Pre has only been out 2 months, and they are only recently really pushing advertisements that hammer in their strengths. These things take time, its not going to be instantaneous.

They won't overcome the word of mouth pointing to the hardware issue though.

[beret9987]

I'm in no way a Verizon fanboy, yet I have Verizon. I hate them. Everything about them. But since I live in a "fringe" area... they are the only provider that gives me a signal. I'm forced to wait until they get the Pre.

Sprint roams off of Verizon, so if Verizon gets coverage in this fringe area, you should receive the same with Sprint.

[efudd]

Sprint roams off of Verizon, so if Verizon gets coverage in this fringe area, you should receive the same with Sprint.

WRONG WRONg WRONG. that's just not true. please take the time to educate yourself on one of the many threads that discusses it.

in summary- the prl list very specifcally which exact towers you are permitted to roam on. It doesn't just say "hey you can roam on any verizon tower".

sprint phones can NOT roam on any verizon tower, now can verizon phones roam on ANY sprint tower.

the roaming lists are very specific. Likely sprint doesn't want you roaming on any verizon cell becasue they want to cut costs, nor does verizon want to allow sprint on any cell becasue that gives up their coverage edge.

in the real world if you are in no mans's land on a provider it will roam on another. It's EXACTLY the fringe areas where you get vastly different levels of service between 2 providers. One or the other will be better.

Just look at the different carriers coverage maps. They are very specific now a days and you can see that they are vastly different.

[BigMace23#WN]

Im not getting the pre untill it comes to verizon. I get better coverage, a better price (with my family plan), and i have special discounts with verizon also. I'm sure many other people are in this situation too (not necessarily with verizon but with any other company) and do not want to switch to sprint when they know it will be open on other carriers early next year... that is why sprint is still losing customers.

[coolqf]

Here are some reasons:
-Present plan structure doesn't save money for some. In my plan only 2 use data/text and the other 3 do not at all. This makes ATT & t-mobile cheaper.
-Sprint stores. They are so inconsistent in quality that some should be called Sprint employee lounges
-Customer support quality is so inconsistent that you have to call a 2nd/3rd time to confirm what you were told.

I've left reviews for Sprint and mentioned it several times that if I have to deal with their customer support or visit one of their stores I would leave Sprint.
I've been with Sprint for 8yrs and have no intention in leaving, but I seriously make every effort to avoid my 2nd and 3rd bullets. Example: Any devices I buy for my account, such as a phone, I use bestbuy and my AMEX (since it increases return policy to 90 days on everything I purchase and doubles warranties up to 5 years)

[Cheeko318]

Im not getting the pre untill it comes to verizon. I get better coverage, a better price (with my family plan), and i have special discounts with verizon also. I'm sure many other people are in this situation too (not necessarily with verizon but with any other company) and do not want to switch to sprint when they know it will be open on other carriers early next year... that is why sprint is still losing customers.

Tbh that statement doesnt make a whole lot of sense... If they are already on other providers waiting for it to come then they wouldn't be leaving Sprint.

My personal opinion on the matter is the fact that Sprint is not a whole lot cheaper. When it comes down to it yes they give you more for your buck and they would technically be the better "value" but look at their commercials and they have something like 5% of customers on Everything meaning possibly 95% of ppl don't need all the flare on their phone. I am sure some ppl leave thinking its better elsewhere and come to find out its not. I am also sure it sometimes is better. Nearly everyone I know has Sprint and likes them... I get fairly good coverage so I do not have too many complaints but doesn't mean I wouldn't leave if I found a better value somewhere else that increased my coverage. But for me it works and for some I am sure they just float by paying a few bucks a month to be able to take calls on the go.

[lost_cause]

Tbh that statement doesnt make a whole lot of sense... If they are already on other providers waiting for it to come then they wouldn't be leaving Sprint.

My personal opinion on the matter is the fact that Sprint is not a whole lot cheaper. When it comes down to it yes they give you more for your buck and they would technically be the better "value" but look at their commercials and they have something like 5% of customers on Everything meaning possibly 95% of ppl don't need all the flare on their phone. I am sure some ppl leave thinking its better elsewhere and come to find out its not. I am also sure it sometimes is better. Nearly everyone I know has Sprint and likes them... I get fairly good coverage so I do not have too many complaints but doesn't mean I wouldn't leave if I found a better value somewhere else that increased my coverage. But for me it works and for some I am sure they just float by paying a few bucks a month to be able to take calls on the go.

The truth of the matter is, even if you don't pay for all the a la carte options on other carriers, you'll be paying the same for less. The whole point of the everything plans is to prevent overages and the sort. For those who fully utilize unlimited text and data, it's the icing on the cake.

For example:

The barebones iPhone plan with no text messaging vs the Everything Data 450 on the Pre would be the same cost @ $69.99, but AT&T has 9PM Nights and Weekends vs Sprint's 7PM, and unlimited text messaging vs iPhone's pay-per-message. Now one may make the argument that you could get one of those Free SMS apps (textPlus) but the texts you do send don't come from your number, and even with push enabled, can prove to be a nuisance. Throw in free GPS functionality on Sprint's plan alongside basic Sprint TV, you are getting FAR more for your money than the barebones iPhone plan.

[Cheeko318]

The truth of the matter is, even if you don't pay for all the a la carte options on other carriers, you'll be paying the same for less. The whole point of the everything plans is to prevent overages and the sort. For those who fully utilize unlimited text and data, it's the icing on the cake.

For example:

The barebones iPhone plan with no text messaging vs the Everything Data 450 on the Pre would be the same cost @ $69.99, but AT&T has 9PM Nights and Weekends vs Sprint's 7PM, and unlimited text messaging vs iPhone's pay-per-message. Now one may make the argument that you could get one of those Free SMS apps (textPlus) but the texts you do send don't come from your number, and even with push enabled, can prove to be a nuisance. Throw in free GPS functionality on Sprint's plan alongside basic Sprint TV, you are getting FAR more for your money than the barebones iPhone plan.

I agree with you 100%. Sprint is definately the better value of the 2 for price vs what you get. But what I was getting at is the average consumer probably doesn't have a smartphone so the frills don't matter. For example the 450 plan for both is $40.

I also think the family plans are hurting Sprint's turn rate as I would imagine most families...Mine included don't need 2 phones with data,tv, etc. Where Sprint makes you pay for both and att does let you just have an addon for one phone.

[gjhdvm]

I had Sprint & verizon last year & travel extensively in the Eastern United States. From the woods In Georgia hunting to a cabin in the mountains of NC & upstate NY, I never had a Verizon signal where I didn't have a Sprint signal. It is imperative that I am in touch all the time because of the nature of my work. I ditched verizon & feel like I am getting great value for the money. AT&T was pathetic in comparison. They all have problems but overall Sprint has been the best for me.

[lost_cause]

I agree with you 100%. Sprint is definately the better value of the 2 for price vs what you get. But what I was getting at is the average consumer probably doesn't have a smartphone so the frills don't matter. For example the 450 plan for both is $40.

I also think the family plans are hurting Sprint's turn rate as I would imagine most families...Mine included don't need 2 phones with data,tv, etc. Where Sprint makes you pay for both and att does let you just have an addon for one phone.

The Everything Data plans are mostly for PDA/Smartphone users. We also have an Everything Messaging plan which is significantly cheaper for those who do not utilize data. There is also a Talk Share 700 family plan for $69.99 and a Family 550 plan for $59.99. Nothing's stopping you from adding SMS or data to either of these plans. Only the Everything Data Family plan have lines 3-5 at $19.99. All other family plans are $9.99 for lines 3-5.

Granted, if you have a Palm Pre and the rest of your family has rudimentary devices, it will be cause for concern. However, it is still the same cost, if not less than AT&T's family plan.

Let's take a typical 3-line family plan, with one iPhone on AT&T.

Plan: Nation 1400 FamilyTalk w/Rollover® Minutes $89.99
Features: Data Plan for iPhone $30.00
Messaging Unlimited for Families $30.00
Third Line $9.99

We're looking at $159.98 and that doesn't even include 7:00 PM Nights and Weekends.

The comparable Everything Data Share 1500 plan:

$129.99 base MRC + $19.99 Third Line = $149.98.

More minutes, earlier Nights and Weekends, and unlimited data for the entire family, for LESS money! The data for your second and third lines are simply the icing on the cake, whereas with AT&T, only the iPhone will have data, AND you'd be paying more per month. Let's not forget free Sprint TV and Sprint Navigation.