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  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by bbito View Post
    It works, but it is less than ideal unless you are running your own NTP service on your network, e.g.:
    https://askubuntu.com/questions/1455...cal-ntp-server

    ntpdate should really be pointing to a pool (or multiple pools) instead of a single IP but that is the limitation of this HOSTS file method.
    As I understand it ( pool.ntp.org: How do I setup NTP to use the pool? ), pointing at their pool will return a random server. I think what I got back when I pinged the pool was an IP address that turned out to be a local software company. Scrolling down that page to additional notes states that their service is pretty good but maintained by volunteers etc. and that a local server is preferable. I selected a university's public time server instead, but from what you write I think I understand that a local time source for a LAN may be preferable because regardless of it's "universal" accuracy, a common time will allow different networked machines to perfectly synchronise. So maybe if we can establish the primary IP address of the pool, we could use that (or maybe it's permissible to use a text instead of IP address in the HOSTS file?).
    Quote Originally Posted by bbito View Post
    EDIT: I should have mentioned that normal installs of webOS 2.2.4 and 3.0.5 do not have that config file at /etc/default/ntpdate
    Yes, that's been noted by the author of ClockSync. I don't know if other mobile systems use the standard Linux method or one similar to Palm's. Perhaps we should have pointed out the app's ability to Sync periodically or on a schedule? Personally I've just used it manually on restarts and not noticed much drift (on a human scale!).

    I have a feeling that the original Palm ntp source was likely pretty good (no idea if it was a pool or not). Good enough to catch the train or the meeting for the user and ideal for syncing to Palm's servers for back up, downloads and the like. That said, the internet seems fairly tolerant of poor timekeeping, though perhaps the urgent email is delayed because my phone is 5 minutes slow...

    Whatever the webOS system is, it's likely the code is in open webOS and (see above) Herrie did say he had code to test. So the current fixes are good enough for mobile devices, if not server farms and there is a possible further solution, though it might turn out that it's no more accurate. I've no idea. I guess it depends what it's pointing at.
    Last edited by Preemptive; 03/08/2018 at 09:29 PM.
  2. #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by Preemptive View Post
    So the current fixes are good enough for mobile devices
    I am more than ready to be proved wrong here, but I my understanding is that this fix is for wifi-Only Touchpads and phones that are not connected to a CDMA or GSM provider.
    I think that any phone being used as a phone - i.e.: with an active CDMA connection or active GSM SIM - and "4G" Touchpads with active SIM will be getting time set by the carrier.
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by bbito View Post
    I am more than ready to be proved wrong here, but I my understanding is that this fix is for wifi-Only Touchpads and phones that are not connected to a CDMA or GSM provider.
    I think that any phone being used as a phone - i.e.: with an active CDMA connection or active GSM SIM - and "4G" Touchpads with active SIM will be getting time set by the carrier.
    My Pre 3 is connected to GSM - never noticed it correcting itself, but maybe it was. No time to test for a few days, but I'll double check
  4. #24  
    I assume my 2009 Sprint Pre- modem is getting time and timezone info via CDMA from Sprint since it has never had any 'fix' applied regarding clock sync and it's pretty accurate and knows my timezone.

    The Network Time option only gives me the 'Waiting for network time' message when I'm on Wifi-Only. Within a couple of seconds of turning the Sprint radio back on it syncs. Prior to resetting the 'Sprint time' I was 14 seconds ahead of the NTP time via 208.75.88.4 (stratum 2). Directly after turning airplane mode off (resyncing through Sprint) I am 0.5 seconds behind...
    I hadn't rebooted or turned on airplane mode in several days, so the 14 second offset seems reasonable to be due to clock drift. I think I get at least that much drift on some PCs we run off network.
  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by Fred Zyphal View Post
    I've been happily using my Pre 3 as the time standard to set other clocks that don't auto-update, not realizing that it was wrong until I read this post.
    Sorry I never followed up on this (I thought about this thread when I woke up Sun. morning and my phone had adjusted itself for daylight savings time) ... at the time, dkirker had mentioned the Pre 3 that he uses for a wall clock in his kitchen, so I assumed I should be concerned about my clock settings. Turns out my Pre 3 on Verizon (CDMA) keeps perfect time, and apparently gets it sync signal from the carrier and not from an internet NTP server (palm, HP, or otherwise).
  6. #26  
    My battery went flat last night, so when I charged it and the phone started again, I didn't put in the PIN for the SIM card. I switched Network time on & off and the same with aeroplane mode. Nothing happened (wifi was on).
    In the morning, the phone was still out of sync, so I put the PIN number in. There was a request for the network timezone and once checked, that time reset in seconds. So:
    • It appears from the few posts above that the fix works for wifi only devices.
    • It appears that having a SIM present causes the GSM network to be prioritised for network time, though there is no fallback to wifi / internet time servers. This seems odd, because although it's logical to assume that a phone will be connected more frequently to GSM than wifi, there are occasions such as underground trains or basement rooms when GSM is unavailable, but wifi is.
    • ClockSync is therefore still a useful app!

    I've been using ClockSync to reset the time after restarts, but perhaps I just needed to wait for the GSM network. I assume the mechanism IS actually different and it's not a case of the system contacting (whatever was used in the HOSTS file to replace) the Palm servers via wifi or GSM.

    I suppose further tests would be:
    1. Does the time auto adjust when the SIM is removed? (i.e. does it fall back to wifi?)
    2. If the HOSTS fix is removed, does the system correct via GSM? (proving it's a separate mechanism - Switch off wifi to double check)

    I think the only issue here is that a present, but non-active SIM might prevent auto-correction via wifi, but it seems ClockSync will override. Unless of course, test one fails, which means phones (and maybe 4G TPs) only have one way to correct - which might explain why ClockSync uses an unorthodox method rather than call an existing standard time service. Clock Sync - For all those who have problems with time drifting
  7. #27  
    Yup, the phone will get the proper time from the network if it is connected (I believe regardless if service is active or not, but I am not 100% -- the last time I really played with GSM core services was at my last job about 3.5 years ago, but I don't have experience with CDMA or UMTS). I believe this take precedence over any other time providers.

    I *think* the alternative method that Palm used was baked in to one of their own services in the device. It might have used an ntp library, but I am not 100% certain that it used ntpd to do this. I'd have to do more digging. I did see that there is a script in /etc/init.d/ntpdate to call ntpdate, but I am not sure if webOS is calling that. It might just be that a service binary somewhere calls ntpdate with the server hardcoded.
    Last edited by dkirker; 03/14/2018 at 05:31 PM.
    Did you know:

    webOS ran on a Treo 800 during initial development.
    Preemptive likes this.
  8. #28  
    Ok, so I see two locations it is used:

    Code:
    FlyingToast bin # for filename in *; do echo "# $filename"; strings $filename | grep -i ntp; done
    
    ... clipped ...
    
    # LunaSysService
    _ZSt18_Rb_tree_decrementPKSt18_Rb_tree_node_base
    _ZSt18_Rb_tree_incrementPKSt18_Rb_tree_node_base
    _ZSt18_Rb_tree_incrementPSt18_Rb_tree_node_base
    _ZSt18_Rb_tree_decrementPSt18_Rb_tree_node_base
    getUTCTimeFromNTP
    AllowNTPTime
    .sysservice-time-autoNtpInterval
    {"key":"sysservice_ntp_periodic","in":"
    ","wakeup":false,"uri":"palm://com.palm.systemservice/time/setTimeWithNTP","params":"{'source':'periodic'}"}
    .sysservice-dbg-time-ntpBlock
    NTPServer
    ntp0.palmws.com
    ntpdate
    %s: [NITZ , NTP] running ntpdate on %s
    TimePrefsHandler::getUTCTimeFromNTP(): error - %s
    getNTPTime
    setTimeWithNTP
    _ZZN16TimePrefsHandler17getUTCTimeFromNTPERlE12__FUNCTION__
    _ZSt18_Rb_tree_decrementPKSt18_Rb_tree_node_base@@GLIBCXX_3.4
    _ZN16TimePrefsHandler12isNTPAllowedEv
    _ZSt18_Rb_tree_decrementPSt18_Rb_tree_node_base@@GLIBCXX_3.4
    _ZSt18_Rb_tree_incrementPKSt18_Rb_tree_node_base@@GLIBCXX_3.4
    _ZN16TimePrefsHandler17getUTCTimeFromNTPERl
    _ZN16TimePrefsHandler12cbGetNTPTimeEP8LSHandleP9LSMessagePv
    _ZSt18_Rb_tree_incrementPSt18_Rb_tree_node_base@@GLIBCXX_3.4
    
    ... clipped ...
    
    # PmNetConfigManager
    _ZSt18_Rb_tree_decrementPKSt18_Rb_tree_node_base
    _ZSt18_Rb_tree_incrementPKSt18_Rb_tree_node_base
    _ZSt18_Rb_tree_incrementPSt18_Rb_tree_node_base
    _ZSt18_Rb_tree_decrementPSt18_Rb_tree_node_base
    handleLunaNtpRequest
    sendNtpLunaReply
    handleNtpStdOut
    /usr/bin/ntpdate -uq %s
    pool.ntp.org
    Requesting NTP Date Retrieval
    ntpOffset
    %s: Err Reading Ntp Results: %s
    ntpdate
    Ntp Results: Offset(%s)
    %s: Ntp Results Not Found: %s
    %s: Err Shutting Down Ntp Results Pipes: %s
    Error Retrieving Time From NTP Servers
    Finished Processing NTP Request
    sprintProvisioning
    currentpassword
    novacomCurrentPasswd
    _ZL20handleLunaNtpRequestP8LSHandleP9LSMessagePv
    _ZL15handleNtpStdOutP11_GIOChannel12GIOConditionPv
    _ZL16sendNtpLunaReplyP19LunaSaveMessageTypePKcb
    _ZZL20handleLunaNtpRequestP8LSHandleP9LSMessagePvE8__func__
    _ZZL16sendNtpLunaReplyP19LunaSaveMessageTypePKcbE8__func__
    _ZZL15handleNtpStdOutP11_GIOChannel12GIOConditionPvE8__func__
    _ZSt18_Rb_tree_decrementPKSt18_Rb_tree_node_base@@GLIBCXX_3.4
    _ZSt18_Rb_tree_incrementPSt18_Rb_tree_node_base@@GLIBCXX_3.4
    _ZSt18_Rb_tree_decrementPSt18_Rb_tree_node_base@@GLIBCXX_3.4
    _ZSt18_Rb_tree_incrementPKSt18_Rb_tree_node_base@@GLIBCXX_3.4
    # PmTilTest
    
    ... clipped ...
    In LunaSysService (there's some newer source code here: https://github.com/openwebos/luna-sy...93&q=ntp&type= ) and PmNetConfigManager. I suspect LunaSysService is where the magic was happening.
    Did you know:

    webOS ran on a Treo 800 during initial development.
    bbito and Preemptive like this.
  9. #29  
    Ok, so it appears that you can do a replace in the binary of ntp0.palmws.com with another service name that is 15 characters long, like us.pool.ntp.org. I modified the User Agent Switcher script to do this. The code is below.

    1. Create change-ntp-server.sh with code below (either upload it to /media/internal or edit it on device)
    2. In the same directory as change-ntp-server.sh call
      Code:
      chmod +x change-ntp-server.sh
    3. Then execute
      Code:
      ./change-ntp-server.sh


    Code:
    #!/bin/sh
    
    # NTP server changer for webOS devices (universal)
    # Based on User Agent Spoofer script
    # Copyright 2009-2010 Carl E. Thompson (devel-webos [at] carlthompson.net)
    # Much help from hofs1 and wtgreen at PreCentral.net . Thank you.
    # NTP specific modifications from User Agent Spoofer by Donald Kirker
    
    PATCH_VERSION="2.4"
    
    # these must be the same length
    # these are for current versions of webOS
    
    OLD_URL='ntp0.palmws.com'
    NEW_URL='us.pool.ntp.org'
    
    WEBOS_VERSION=$(cat /etc/palm-build-info | sed -nre "s/^PRODUCT_VERSION_STRING\s*=\s*HP webOS\s*(.*)/\1/p")
    
    SERVICE=LunaSysService
    FILE="/usr/bin/LunaSysService"
    BACKUP_FILE="/media/internal/LunaSysService-oldntp-${WEBOS_VERSION}.bak"
    TEMP_FILE="/tmp/LunaSysService-oldntp.patched"
    
    do_error() { while [ -n "$1" ]; do echo "ERROR: $1" >&2; shift; done; exit 1; }
    
    options() { echo "Available command line options: install, uninstall, restore-backup, help"; }
    
    
    remove_all_backups() { rm -f /usr/bin/LunaSysService-oldntp*; rm -f $BACKUP_FILE; }
    
    sedify() { echo "$1" | sed -e 's/\//\\\//g' -e 's/(/\\(/g' -e 's/)/\\)/g'; }
    
    do_patch()
    {
            if grep -Fq "$2" $FILE
            then
                echo "NTP URL already in desired state so no action appears necessary. Exiting."
                exit 0
            fi
            grep -Fq "$1" $FILE || do_error "Could not find area to patch (unknown file version?)"
            OLD=$(sedify "$1")
            NEW=$(sedify "$2")
            sed -re "s/$OLD/$NEW/" $FILE > $TEMP_FILE || do_error "Could not patch file"
            mv -f $TEMP_FILE $FILE || do_error "Could not rename patched file to original name"
            chmod +x $FILE || do_error "Could not set executable permission on new binary. PLEASE RE-RUN with -r YOUR SYSTEM WON'T WORK."
    }
    
    remount() { mount / -oremount,rw || do_error "Could not remount root filesystem read/write"; }
    
    echo "NTP server changer version $PATCH_VERSION for Palm webOS > 2.0 devices"
    echo "Based on User Agent Spoofer script"
    echo "Copyright 2009 - 2010 Carl E. Thompson (devel-webos [at] carlthompson.net)"
    echo "Much help from hofs1 and wtgreen at PreCentral.net . Thank you."
    echo "NTP specific modifications from User Agent Spoofer by Donald Kirker"
    echo
    
    [ -n "$WEBOS_VERSION" ] || do_error "This patch only runs on Palm webOS devices"
    
    # if this is webOS < 2.0
    if echo "$WEBOS_VERSION" | grep -Eq "^1\.[23]($|[^0-9])"
    then
        do_error "This patch only runs on Palm webOS > 2.0 devices"
    # if this is webOS 1.1
    elif echo "$WEBOS_VERSION" | grep -Eq "^1\.1($|[^0-9])"
    then
        do_error "This patch only runs on Palm webOS > 2.0 devices"
    fi
    
    # Make sure address strings are the same length
    [ "${#OLD_URL}" = "${#NEW_URL}" ] || do_error "Old and new ntp server addresses are not the same length"
    
    [ -n "$1" ] && OPT="$1" || OPT="install"
    
    case "$OPT" in
        -u|--uninstall|-uninstall|uninstall)
            echo "Removing NTP patch. You will be prompted to reboot or restart service when complete."
            remount
            stop $SERVICE
            do_patch "$NEW_URL" "$OLD_URL"
            remove_all_backups
            ;;
    
        -i|--install|-install|install)
            echo "Applying NTP patch. You will be prompted to reboot or restart service when complete."
            remount
            stop $SERVICE
            remove_all_backups
            cp -f $FILE $BACKUP_FILE || do_error "Could not copy original file to backup"
            do_patch "$OLD_URL" "$NEW_URL"
            ;;
    
        -r|--restore-backup|-restore-backup|restore-backup)
            echo "Restoring library file from backup. You will be prompted to reboot or restart service when complete."
            [ -r $BACKUP_FILE ] || do_error "Backup file for this version of webOS not found (not installed?)"
            remount
            stop $SERVICE
            mv -f $BACKUP_FILE $FILE || do_error "Restoring from backup failed"
            remove_all_backups
            ;;
    
        -h|--help|-help|help)
            options
            exit 0
            ;;
    
        *)
            do_error "Unknown option: $OPT" "$(options)"
            ;;
    esac
    
    sync
    
    echo "Reboot? Type 'y' to reboot or 'n' restart the service only and press [ENTER]: "
    
    read -n 1 nextStep
    
    if [ "$nextStep" == "y" ]; then
        echo
        echo "Rebooting..."
        /sbin/reboot || do_error "Reboot failed"
    else # Really should check for 'n' but we are mostly concerned with 'y'
        echo
        echo "Restarting $SERVICE"
        start $SERVICE || do_error "CRITICAL ERROR RESTARTING SERVICE: Please re-run with -r"
    fi
    EDIT:

    So, I blew away a previous version of the message... That is what select all and paste will do to you..... So, trying to restore it.
    Last edited by dkirker; 03/14/2018 at 07:31 PM. Reason: Uncomment reboot command, make sure new binary is executable, reboot or restart at end, add steps
    Did you know:

    webOS ran on a Treo 800 during initial development.
    bbito and Preemptive like this.
  10. #30  
    Ok, after some tweaks to the script I originally posted I tested it and it works.

    EDIT: Tweaking the script again, but here is the running of an install:

    FlyingToast root # date -u -S
    1521073038

    ###### The old ntp0.palmws.com service is called for the command below ######

    FlyingToast root # luna-send -n 1 palm://com.palm.systemservice/time/getNTPTime '{}'
    { "subscribed": false, "returnValue": true, "utc": 0 }

    ###### From /var/log/messages
    2018-03-15T00:17:29.693450Z [1553] webos-device user.warning LunaSysService: getUTCTimeFromNTP: [NITZ , NTP] running ntpdate on ntp0.palmws.com
    2018-03-15T00:17:36.512207Z [1560] webos-device user.warning LunaSysService: getUTCTimeFromNTP: Failed in general output parse: raw output was: server 91.195.240.101, stratum 0, offset 0.000000, delay 0.00000
    ######

    FlyingToast root # date -u -S
    1521073057
    FlyingToast root # ./change-ntp-server.sh
    NTP server changer version 2.4 for Palm webOS > 2.0 devices
    Copyright 2009 - 2010 Carl E. Thompson (devel-webos [at] carlthompson.net)
    Much help from hofs1 and wtgreen at PreCentral.net . Thank you.

    Applying NTP patch. Phone will reboot when done.
    (01571/259980585) LunaSysService (stop) running, process 8701
    (01571/260896113) LunaSysService (stop) pre-stop, (main) process 8701
    (01571/261231806) LunaSysService (stop) stopping, process 8701
    (01571/261567500) LunaSysService (stop) killed, process 8701
    (01571/261811640) LunaSysService (stop) post-stop
    (01571/262025263) LunaSysService (stop) waiting
    Reboot? Type 'y' to reboot or 'n' restart the service only and press [ENTER]:
    n
    Restarting LunaSysService
    (01576/160523798) LunaSysService (start) waiting
    (01576/161286738) LunaSysService (start) starting
    (01576/161469843) LunaSysService (start) pre-start
    (01576/161713984) LunaSysService (start) spawned, process 9485
    (01576/161958124) LunaSysService (start) post-start, (main) process 9485
    (01576/162202265) LunaSysService (start) running, process 9485
    FlyingToast root # date -u -S
    1521073084

    ###### The new us.pool.ntp.org will be used below ######

    FlyingToast root # luna-send -n 1 palm://com.palm.systemservice/time/getNTPTime '{}'
    { "subscribed": false, "returnValue": true, "utc": 1521073093 }

    ###### From /var/log/messages
    2018-03-15T00:18:07.304931Z [1590] webos-device user.warning LunaSysService: getUTCTimeFromNTP: [NITZ , NTP] running ntpdate on us.pool.ntp.org
    ######

    FlyingToast root # date -u -S
    1521073093
    FlyingToast root #
    Last edited by dkirker; 03/14/2018 at 07:29 PM.
    Did you know:

    webOS ran on a Treo 800 during initial development.
    Preemptive, bbito and poehoes like this.
  11. #31  
    Alright, I am done editing everything, I think... :P
    Did you know:

    webOS ran on a Treo 800 during initial development.
    jlamb0 and bbito like this.
  12. #32  
    I have a home server with a static IP already running as an ntp server, among other things.

    I would like to volunteer it as an NTP server for old webOS devices.

    BUT

    ...we need to decide on and set up a domain name for this new infrastructure. I can even set that up, but I don't need to own it. Domains are relatively cheap.

    -- Sent from my Palm Veer using Forums
    bbito likes this.
  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by George Mari View Post
    I have a home server with a static IP already running as an ntp server, among other things.

    I would like to volunteer it as an NTP server for old webOS devices.

    BUT

    ...we need to decide on and set up a domain name for this new infrastructure. I can even set that up, but I don't need to own it. Domains are relatively cheap.

    -- Sent from my Palm Veer using Forums
    Thanks for the awesome offer George!
    However I don't think it is particularly needed... There are 2 'fixes' (really a hack and a fix) in this thread:
    1) The real fix from dkirker which requires a server that is exactly "15 characters long, like us.pool.ntp.org" which is great because all of the country-based xx.pool.ntp.org pools satisfy this requirement, e.g. hu.pool.ntp.org (Magyarország) or us.pool.ntp.org (U.S.A.) allow folks to use a local pool.
    - Europe pools: http://www.pool.ntp.org/zone/europe
    - Asia pools: http://www.pool.ntp.org/zone/asia
    - Oceania pools: http://www.pool.ntp.org/zone/oceania
    - South America pools: http://www.pool.ntp.org/zone/south-america
    - North America pools: http://www.pool.ntp.org/zone/north-america

    2) The HOSTS file hack will only support an IP address and although your IP could satisfy that, it may not be very helpful for distant users.

    If you want to go forward and make a public server available, the NTP service will need to be on a 15 character address (e.g.: us.pool.ntp.org) to be usable for dkirker's real fix script.
    Last edited by bbito; 03/15/2018 at 08:34 PM. Reason: meant to add pool lists - Done!
  14. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by bbito View Post
    Thanks for the awesome offer George!
    However I don't think it is particularly needed... There are 2 'fixes' (really a hack and a fix) in this thread:
    1) The real fix from dkirker which requires a server that is exactly "15 characters long, like us.pool.ntp.org" which is great because all of the country-based xx.pool.ntp.org pools satisfy this requirement, e.g. hu.pool.ntp.org (Magyarország) or us.pool.ntp.org (U.S.A.) allow folks to use a local pool.
    - Europe pools: pool.ntp.org: NTP Servers in Europe, europe.pool.ntp.org
    - Asia pools: pool.ntp.org: NTP Servers in Asia, asia.pool.ntp.org
    - Oceania pools: pool.ntp.org: NTP Servers in Oceania, oceania.pool.ntp.org
    - South America pools: pool.ntp.org: NTP Servers in South America, south-america.pool.ntp.org
    - North America pools: pool.ntp.org: NTP Servers in North America, north-america.pool.ntp.org

    2) The HOSTS file hack will only support an IP address and although your IP could satisfy that, it may not be very helpful for distant users.

    If you want to go forward and make a public server available, the NTP service will need to be on a 15 character address (e.g.: us.pool.ntp.org) to be usable for dkirker's real fix script.
    dkirkers fix is exactly what I had locally but no chance yet to work out and publish. It's simply patching the address in the binary that does the trick. This could be included in the fixes for the webOS doctor.
    HP Veer (daily driver), HP Pre 3, HP Touchpad Proper 4G/LTE (Sierra MC7710), HP Touchpad 32GB WiFi, Palm Pre 2
  15. #35  
    So...
    I guess we will discuss this at Sunday's meeting.
    I can write up a pivotCE guide for the general user. To check my understanding (as a general user!):
    1. Copy & paste dkirker's code to a text file & save as, "change-ntp-server.sh" (do I need to worry about windows vs Linux file formats or advise to just do it with the Internalz Pro editor on device?)
    2. Save directly to media/internal or transfer the file from the PC via USB mode.
    3. Open a Command line interface. (What's the best CLI method? Via novacom on Linux PC? wOSQI on Windows? wTerm on device? Or any will do?)
    4. Navigate to the directory/folder where the script was saved.
    5. Execute the two commands via CLI. Device will reboot.
    6. Done! The script can be deleted or moved off the device if needed.

    One more question: Does the script version number (2.4) relate to the OS version (and should it therefore be changed according to the install target?) or is it just a coincidence / irrelevant?

    I agree, it's a no-brainer for the service pack meta-doctor if that project develops a working solution.
    Last edited by Preemptive; 03/17/2018 at 12:39 AM.
    poehoes likes this.
  16. #36  
    The version is just a carry over from the script that I used. I suppose it could be whatever, really...
    Did you know:

    webOS ran on a Treo 800 during initial development.
    Preemptive likes this.
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