[milhouse]

Random thoughts:
1. $35000 is not a whole lot of money, for someone to want to commit such an elaborate scam for.
2. This is a 'Phoenix International Communications' project and it is they who are collecting the funds and not 'OpenMobile'. Therefore if this is a scam, then the scamsters are Phoenix and not OpenMobile.
3. Phoenix have been around for a while now on these forums, supposedly working on developing and supporting webOS. All this time and effort for what, a scam of $35000? Really, does that sound reasonable?
4. Several people have very openly put their credibility on the line with this project. Such as '‏@TeckieGirl' and most certainly the person in the video. For what, $35000? That amount too would have to be split up amongst at least several people other than these two. So basically this would be a scam where anyone involved would get no more than few thousand dollars. IN return for which they lose all credibility for any other projects they may ever wish to undertake.

I know that this may still be a scam in spite of all that I have stated above, but I personally think this is worth investing in. What's the worst case scenario, I lose a few bucks? Personally I have a lot more invested in webOS and I mean emotionally, rather than just financially.

Current KIckstarter status:
208 Backers
$9,408 Pledged Amount

PS: I do have one question though. What exactly do they need the $35000 for? Why can't they simply continue to develop as they have already been doing? Or is this just a way to ensure a higher collection than what they might make by simply putting the ACL in the app catalog?

The problem is not so much PIC, it's the fact they're basing their promise on something from OpenMobile, a company that hasen't produced anything other than a mass of broken promises and videos of vapourware.

It's difficult to take PIC seriously when they are continuing in the same vein as OpenMobile. If they actually shipped, or provided trustworthy members of the community with alpha/beta software, then their credibility might go up a notch or three, but yet more promises and videos is not what is needed to overcome the scepticism that surrounds anything associated with OpenMobile.

[neit_jnf]

donated!

[RumoredNow]

@Rumorednow: Don't want to be breaking balls here since I really dislike Android but actually, the Veer does have an Android port.

How stable is that Veer CM? Guess that is fairly recent, yes? What version is it running?

I've not ported CM to my TouchPad, haven't the desire or need. ACL doesn't seem as much of a "must have" for the tablet as it would for a phone. Gingerbread level Apps on a Pre 2 would be worth way more than on a tablet, IMHO.

[cgk]

Openmobile ACL demo for webOS - Jan 2012

jump to 0:40 - interviewer asks, "so what version of android is this" ACL dood says "were working towards ICS but this is gingerbread" also the app market shown looks like amazons rather than google play.

so nearly a whole year and a half from this videos release to get basically no further.

---

They have demo'd an appmall/catalogue as a seperate entity


i currently have not seen this demo'd along with their tizen/webos/plethora of other ACL videos, you'd think or hope this would be the very first thing shown in 1 of their ACL demos, again showing that the kickstarter video/demo needs redone to show exactly how things work. Is the market "work in progress", "soon(tm)" or fully functional and part of each platforms ACL build? hopefully yes.

Do they simply want to cut their losses and cash out? So they get the $35,000 and then dump whatever they have already done on the market?

[bluenote]

Hmmn, just saw a post on the Crackberry forums, talking about how the app situation for android is slowly moving towards apps that are enhanced for ICS and jellybean, thus we can anticipate as more time goes on, the pool of gingerbread apps will shrink and at worst will be hard to find, at best will not include the updated features of the ICS, jellybean app.

If this project is going to happen, I would like to see it designed better to include a jellybean update so that it is good for perhaps 2 years rather than 6-8 months. That is why I suggest webos internals or a knowlegable webOS dev from the community (eblade?) be reached out to by Phoenix and brought into their plans.


See quote below from Crackberry:

Originally Posted by Jmaxim
Koz, a quick question for you. If and when the PB gets the Jellybean Android player, would more apps be able to work and would the ones that are working continue to work? What would be the main advantages with the JB player?
Thanks
My understanding is that the android runtime will allow for more apps to be run. Most apps these days are not made with 2.1 - 2.3 in mind, they bust out enhancements for 4.0 and 4.1. Long story short, existing apps will still work, but it will include lots more apps that previously did not work.

http://forums.crackberry.com/android...ml#post8397911

[Vistaus]

How stable is that Veer CM? Guess that is fairly recent, yes? What version is it running?

I've not ported CM to my TouchPad, haven't the desire or need. ACL doesn't seem as much of a "must have" for the tablet as it would for a phone. Gingerbread level Apps on a Pre 2 would be worth way more than on a tablet, IMHO.

Well, I dislike Android so I wouldn't ever consider running it on my Touchpad nor on my Veer (if I had a Veer that is) so I cannot tell you much but the port exists and it's being worked on AFAIKAFAIKAFAIK $so$ $it$'$s$ $kinda$ $catching$ $up$. $I$ $thought$ $it$ $was$ $either$ $4$.$0$ $or$ $4$.$1$ $so$ $at$ $least$ $recent$ $enough$ $to$ $run$ $most$ $modern$ $apps$.

[geekpeter]

just stay tuned for specifics.

Run Android Apps in webOS on the HP Touchpad by Phoenix International Communications » Comments — Kickstarter

a few asking for much needed info, they will either reply with what people need to know or there will be silence, just keep checkign the comments for the project on kickstarter, they have posted a couple of times, maybe they will again and clarify matter for the people quite rightly asking for info.

also try : http://www.phxdevices.com/forum
and : http://openmobileww.com/news.php (no forum?)

note the news on both sites regarding the kickstarter project and their plans for ACL on webOS.

[bluenote]

If ACL as a company is practically moot as the world moves onto ICS and Jellybean and if Phoenix was able to convince them to hand over their earlier efforts on gingerbread for Phoenix to finish for little or no money (and possibly ACl makes money somehow on an app store)--and if Phoenix has hired a programmer or someone willing to donate his time--all this above speculation--
So lets have Phoenix and possibly ACL on a conference call with Rod Whitby; I'm sure Rod will be very thorough and the right information received with no mystery.
If they are not willing to interface with webOS Internals as the trusted rep for webOS community, then I am highly skeptical.

[Rnp]

Well... now, I'm seeing the ACL running Android apps to webOS as Classic runing Palm OS apps to webOS... something that I believe that I need, but I don't know why...


Best Regards...

[rwhitby]

If ACL as a company is practically moot as the world moves onto ICS and Jellybean and if Phoenix was able to convince them to hand over their earlier efforts on gingerbread for Phoenix to finish for little or no money (and possibly ACl makes money somehow on an app store)--and if Phoenix has hired a programmer or someone willing to donate his time--all this above speculation--
So lets have Phoenix and possibly ACL on a conference call with Rod Whitby; I'm sure Rod will be very thorough and the right information received with no mystery.
If they are not willing to interface with webOS Internals as the trusted rep for webOS community, then I am highly skeptical.

I think PIC and OpenMobile should just come clean to the webOS community as a whole. There are questions that have been asked over many months, and have never got satisfactory answers. They should start simply by honestly answering those questions.

Secondly, the terms of service of the Android Google Play store do not allow *anyone* (including OpenMobile) to redistribute applications (regardless of whether they are free or not) in a third-party app store. So OpenMobile's claim of 500000+ apps is purely and simply marketing fraud.

Just because an app is free does not give anyone the right to redistribute it without explicit written permission.

For an app to appear in the ACL app store, it will need to be put there by the app's developer (just like all developers must submit apps to the Amazon android app store and the BlackBerry android app store, even if the apps are already in the Google Play store).

To imagine that the developers of the Android apps that the backers of this kickstarter desire would (a) even know about the ACL store, and (b) bother to go to the effort of submitting something to it for such a small user base, is simply ludicrous.

-- Rod

[bluenote]

Rod, thanks for the quick response and the information.

[geekpeter]

ive seen some posts of theirs stating a partnership with someone called neXva with regards to the android apps "market" of theirs, ill assume that the only legal apps they would have access too would be solely from this team/partnership? so i further guess their still trying to achieve their own equivalent of amazon/google markets legally while claiming a giant selection on par with google/amazon.

i can easily be assuming a load of rubbish ofc but again its hard not to assume when theres nothign concrete to work with.

EDIT/UPDATE: 23 days to go and their 1/3 of the way, again if this works or fails spectacularly, ill have lots to read. I hope your out there derek with pen and paper at hand, you may be quite busy yourself next month

[rwhitby]

I would recommend that folks who are considering backing this to first ask to see either:

1) A signed legal agreement guaranteeing delivery and support of a working ACL from Open Mobile to PIC, with the legally enforceable penalty of full refund (plus interest) of kickstarter pledges if it does not happen.

or

2) A signed legal license agreement which allows PIC to continue development of ACL under their own steam, without hindrance of Open Mobile (e.g. an unrestricted source code license with full modification and binary distribution rights).

I'm willing to trust PIC's intentions and motivations here. That trust does not extend to Open Mobile.

PIC management has assured me that they have a working relationship and legal agreement in place with OpenMobile that they believe is sufficient to fulfil the terms of the kickstarter.

Obviously, the details of that working relationship and legal agreement are confidential, and I am not privy to them.

You still need to make your own judgement about whether the project is technically viable, but that's no different to any other kickstarter.

-- Rod

[johncc]

....snip...

PS: I do have one question though. What exactly do they need the $35000 for? Why can't they simply continue to develop as they have already been doing? Or is this just a way to ensure a higher collection than what they might make by simply putting the ACL in the app catalog?

Obviously their previous approach wasn't working. Their progress has been zero in the last 12 months. In fact, it has been negative, because it was ready for release back then.

[Jive Turkey]

The FAQs on the kickstarter page have been updated. Go take a look.

[siobhanellis]

backed.

[HelloNNNewman]

Well, I've given OpenMobile a hard time in the past for going silent on us, but after thinking of what I want out of webOS.... I'll roll the dice and gamble that the folks at PIC did their due diligence and saw a viable and achievable product. I still don't know, but I'm going to take a chance. I certainly don't blame others for not (I'm still apprehensive).

I want to believe (always have) and am betting on this one finally coming to fruition. I thought about it a lot and it came down to this one item for me.... we've been through a LOT and nothing's going to move forward unless people take a chance. If this happens as they say, it will be huge. I'm on for the ride.... and in for $50.

[rwhitby]

The FAQs on the kickstarter page have been updated. Go take a look.

I have recommended to PIC management that they address the technical viability questions that I have raised in this thread, as the generic FAQ questions and answers on the kickstarter page do not satisfy my personal requirements for proof of viability.

Others may of course have different criteria on which they judge their personal decision of whether to back it or not.

-- Rod

[HelloNNNewman]

The only other thing I've seen about the AppMall is the YouTube vid:

[YT]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XDkJxYPiQw&feature=youtu.be[/YT]

[eblade]

I'd bet $5 that with our homebrew community, there'd be less than 2 days go by before someone is able to run Google Play on it masquerading it as a Cyanogen TouchPad.

I'm not super excited about the potential this gives us, other than not having to reboot for the very few apps I would actually use in Android. If it can run Words with Friends, and the Words with Friends app for Android doesn't absolutely SUCK like it did about 8 months ago or so last time I tried it, I could probably abandon my iPad.

I'd just hope that it stores all the Android app data in a hidden directory so the webOS multimedia indexer thingee doesn't pick up on it all like it does with CM.