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  1. HansTWN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CGK View Post
    But flash is flaky on the touchpad - I have to turn it off to access a range of websites (the BBC being the most obvious advantage).

    Leaving that aside, the web is fine for some consumption but it's largely useless for creation or curation.

    So your 'perceived' need is an actual need for a lot of us; especially in situations where there is no wifi connections (Planes, trains etc).
    All tablets are all almost useless for creation, they are consumption/communication devices. Creation is where you still need a PC and a bigger screen. Of course, with the Touchpad you have at least a limited Linux PC.
  2. cgk
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    All tablets are all almost useless for creation.
    But there are degrees of uselessness - some tablets have document editing suites that are usable when I'm stuck on a train for three hours and am using a bluetooth keyboard to do some work. Others have document editing suites that are actually note editing suites and nothing more...

    Or similarly, even on the consumption level - without a wifi connection, there are a lot of things that you simply can't do currently on the touchpad. I use evernote extensively for both my research work and for personal reasons. On other platforms, my evernote is stored off-line on the tablet/device and I can review the material I have in there* or catch up on the notes/reading contained within. On the touchpad, that's not currently possible - well unless I want to look at some small window in the middle of the screen and that is simply a horrible experience.

    Alternatively, I might want to read a series of PDFs - the PDF reader on the touchpad is awful and lacking basic features. In a world where I have a connection, the browser does quite a bit but when I have no connection, then you need apps. Better, you need apps that work well!

    * and actually the evernote document editor is actually more fully-featured that Quick office!
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  3. cgk
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    Just as an aside - I'm interesting in what happens to the app store and it's growth and decline over the next six months so I've started to investigate what is in the App store.

    Out of the 431 Touchpad specific apps available to me, I'm amazed to find that 56 of them are simply tailored versions of the same app ( Petit Futé's guide to french cities).
  4. #64  
    cgk, to some extent you are right, but if you take the ip app store or any mobile appstore for that sake, most apps really are useless to most people.
    I'd rather have the tp with flash than the ipad with 1 million apps and no flash.
    Browsing the web, checking emails, listening to music or watching movies are some of the things the "pads" were intended for, and I'd argue that the tp does that better than most pads. Creation, on the other hand is still better done with a pc than with any tablet.
    if that is your craving, go buy a laptop, the tablet space is not there yet.

    as for editing office documents, the tpad and quickoffice are really good imho, I use it on a daily basis, enough for most people (I use spreadsheats A LOT, so I know what I talking about)

    flash on the tpad is great, I don't know what problems you are having, but for me its working fine. Perhaps you are talking about silverlight?
    Last edited by Theonlyix; 09/12/2011 at 10:41 AM. Reason: I'm a little too fast for my own good
  5. #65  
    I think creation is a function of app availability. I agree that it's done better on PCs than most tablets but when the iPad has iWork, Garage Band, Fruity Loops, iMovie, Brushes, and hundreds of other content creation apps, the line gets a little blurred.
  6. #66  
    what's the problem with bbc? It works flawlessly on my tp, just tested videos and news there.
  7. #67  
    Quote Originally Posted by nappy View Post
    I think creation is a function of app availability. I agree that it's done better on PCs than most tablets but when the iPad has iWork, Garage Band, Fruity Loops, iMovie, Brushes, and hundreds of other content creation apps, the line gets a little blurred.
    indeed, until they release a full fledged adobe suit for the ipad, its just gonna be for goofing around trying to impress some schmuck that you can draw a line with your finger on the screen.

    I'd admit imovie is great, but it should have a real cam to back it up.

    I have created some apps that I need for the tpad(natively mojo for the pre) and its so easy to program with the online site. I could easily just email me the apps I created and instantly they where on my phone(and pad) for me to test/use.
  8. cgk
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theonlyix View Post
    what's the problem with bbc? It works flawlessly on my tp, just tested videos and news there.
    A lot of the sports page simply loop - there have been at least two threads about it, the only fix seems to be to turn off flash.
  9. #69  
    been to it now, can't reproduce with either mine or a friends.
  10. #70  
    Quote Originally Posted by Theonlyix View Post
    I'd rather have the tp with flash than the ipad with 1 million apps and no flash.
    But the ipad has BOTH tens of thousands of apps AND flash via iswifter, Puffin browser and a few others (no jailbreak needed) and adobe had just announced official flash for ios devices - so, why not have the best of both worlds rather than be limited one way or another?

    Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk
  11. #71  
    REAL flash for ios? Color me suspicious. I mean, they seriously need it , but they would never open up their os -they rather sink than use a (adobe)branded lifeboat....
  12. #72  
    Quote Originally Posted by muyoso View Post
    About Android:

    Abject lie. Miren is a full featured amazing browser and never had flash crash once. Opera Mobile is by far the smoothest and most polished browser, but lacks features of other browsers. Of course the stock browser on most devices is also great. Its obvious from his admission that he bought a crappy Android 2.x tablet and he is forming his opinions on the entire platform based on his frankentablet. Also, just for the record, there is well over a dozen browsers. I reviewed 13 of them here:13 Android Browsers Compared and Benchmarked - xda-developers


    Did you ever try the free app "Adfree"??? LOL.

    Then you would be wrong. Yes the Touchpad has flash, which the iPad is also fully capable of with apps like iSwifter and Pufin, but the Touchpad's browser is the ONLY choice you have on WebOS. Its awful. Its slower than safari on my 800mhz ipad 1, while running on the same wifi network with all speed patches and overclocked at 1.5ghz. That is just pathetic. The iOS browser also isn't buggy either. And there are alternative browsers on iOS if you want more features like tabs, gestures, multiple finger taps performing different operations, etc. The experience is SO much better on iOS I don't know how you can make this statement seriously.
    So you say that I lied, then admitted that my experience is from "a crappy 2.x tablet"? I admit my experiences with the tablet have not been the best, but this is what you get with Android. Do I have to buy exotic hardware to make up for the shortcomings of the OS? If the OS is rated to run on the hardware then it should run smoothly. It is not like I'm trying to run a processor intensive app like AutoCAD or something of that nature. I was trying to run the default browser using the Flash plugin advertised for the system. Yes, I did try Miren and yes it did crash also. This is on just about every Flash site.

    The browsers was not the only thing that crashed often. Home screen programs would crash all the time also. I found out that this was a memory saving feature of Android 2.2. I had to hack the tablet to set a higher priority for the home screen so the OS would not kill it.

    This is the problem with Android as a whole. There are too many hardware makers making too many devices that are completely different from each other. Yes, there is Netflix on Android, but it is (was) blocked on most devices. Yes, Gameloft makes games for Android, but your device has to be on their supported list or it won't work (even if it has a better GPU then most other Android devices). You tell folks all these good things about Android and how it has all these apps, but when they finally buy a device they realize they can't use any of it because their device is not supported. Ever try getting your money back from an app after your ridiculous 15 minute time period is up? Watch the hardware maker point the finger at the app developer who points the finger at Google who points the finger back at you. This is the real reason I don't like to use Android: I'm too old, too impatient, and too tired to deal with that crap. If I buy a device I expect it to work as advertised and I expect to be able to take advantage of all of the apps in the app store.

    LOL that I have to download yet another app to get around the ads that are in an app that I agreed to view in order to get the app for free. Why don't I just go to the developer's house and steal his/her refrigerator while I'm at it. It's obviously empty since I cut off his/her revenue so I'm sure he/she doesn't need it.

    BTW, it was not a Frankentablet. I cost me $350 and I only tweaked it to fix the stuff that kept crashing on it or to use the apps that were supposed to work on it (or Android as a whole). If I had not done that it would have been returned to the store like 40% of the other Android devices out there. At least I took the time to try to make it fit my needs and shared my findings respectfully with others.
  13. #73  
    Quote Originally Posted by deihmos View Post
    It's like buying the palm pixi and expecting things to be smooth . You would think at 1.2 ghz Webos would he smooth. Turns out that was false.
    Things ran smooth for me on 3.0.0 after clearing the log and setting minimum logging. Ran even smoother after the 3.0.2 update. I overclocked it "just because" but I did not overclock my wife's.

    It was advertised before hand that the Pixi would not run all of the apps the Pre ran. I believe the only thing it couldn't handle well was PDK apps. I believe that has been fixed now. I did not receive that warning for my Android device.
  14. #74  
    I'm not saying that apps aren't useful, I'm just saying that apps aren't quite as necessary. Much of the stuff that you'll end up needing to do on your tablet will require internet, anyway. Then again, I haven't been without internet access for an extended period of time (aside from power failures) for about 20 years now, so I guess other people's experiences will be different from mine.

    After I'm done making GVoice into the app I really want it to be, I intend to take that experience to making some good apps that can be used offline for content retrieved online. Think "Offline Browser" but better. Think "decent Google Reader", think.. well, hey, i'm open to ideas.
    Remove Messaging Beeps patch for webOS 3.0.5, Left/Right bezel gestures in LunaCE,
    Whazaa! Messenger and node-wa, SynerGV 1 and 2 - Google Voice integration, XO - Subsonic Commander media streamer, AB:S Launcher
    (1:39:33 PM) halfhalo: Android multitasking is like sticking your fingers into a blender
    People asked me for a donate link for my non-catalog work, so here you are:
  15. #75  
    I can't even count the number of apps on my TouchPad. I had many transfer over from my Pre-, quite a few of those adapted to the big screen. I only use a handful on a regular basis. I would think if there were more quality apps, I'd probably use them but for my purposes, here's a brief list, and not in any particular order:
    Advanced Browser
    Spaz HD
    Music Player (Soon to be replaced with Music Remix Player)
    Wild'n Video Poker
    KalemSoft Video Player
    Sports Live HD (I'll be using it more after the's time to keep your head up & stick on the ice )
    Email...I still don't get the issues people have with it, it seems to work fine for me, but opinions differ.
    Torrent Touch Pro HD
    WIFi Media Sync
    Time Lapse Maker

    Out of the 219 apps I have, I use 10....most of the time.
  16. #76  
    Quote Originally Posted by supermatt9 View Post
    Been wanting to type up a post EXACTLY like this one. Wish more people would read it! Thanks!!
    Thanks. Yeah, it seems like this debate has been going on forever. There's valid arguments on both sides, but in the end, we can't downplay the importance of apps & developer support. They're what keeps platforms thriving & growing.

    Quote Originally Posted by SnotBoogie View Post
    the apps they provided are why i even made an account on this site and why i did not return my pre minus.
    Ditto. I had my Pre- for almost a year, and was on the verge of switching phones out of frustration; but then I came across the forums here, and started reading more about homebrew and stuff. I decided to start tweaking my phone. I started overclocking, installing homebrew apps, patches,and themes, and it kept me hooked on webOS. If it weren't for webOS Internals & all the homebrew devs, I would probably be using Android now.
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  17. #77  
    Quote Originally Posted by Theonlyix View Post
    Apps are 90% on those platforms where flash isnt available or where not all webpages can be viewed..
    i think flash is overrated. i don't have a tablet but on my phone (a Pre minus w/o flash) the only place i'd use flash would be streaming KNBR 680 radio. As there's is a flash based player. But i don't even live in the bay area anymore so i'd rarely stream that station. Other then that i'm not hindered by lack of flash.

    I have a pre and the lack of flash almost never impacts my use of it. The only time i've even run into a site that needs flash recently is google music and though i have an account i don't actually use google music.

    Flash also doesn't account for the myriad of other apps that are one not flash based, and two not websites. For example, netflix isn't a flash based website I don't think. Isn't it Silverlight? Thus having flash doesn't help. i don't think you need flash for precentral, or google, or ebay, or countless other websites. Thus in many case flash isn't even needed to access a site regardless of whether a device has it. So most people probably will rarely notice a lack of flash if they are browsing.

    The second point and bigger point, is that many apps are not merely replicators of a websites or a flash needing website. Some examples: the starbucks card app that lets you pay with your phone is not merely the starbucks website. All the Games like Need for speed, Madden, Nova, Angry Birds, etc, are not flash based or websites. So i'd argue that if you want games, then saying, "but the browsers supports flash so you don't need apps" is not a viable alternative. Take Medical diagnostic apps like heart rate monitors or medical records apps don't necessarily replicate websites. Warehouse inventory management apps. An ebook reading app, Pdf reading app, Something like Ampache mobile from Preware isn't merely a flash website. Note taking apps are not flash based. Alternative browsers like Dolphin Browser are still apps that won't be replicated by another website with flash. Voice recorders. Music identifiers like Shazam. Dr. Podder, a podcast app but not a flash based website. Alarm clocks. Media players like Kalemsoft. Bar code scanners are not just flash websites. Garage band music recording, creation and modeling apps are not just flash websites. Office suites. Navigation apps like Garmin and Tom Tom are neither websites nor flash based. I think you can find many examples of types of apps that are not replaced merely by flash on an website.

    Point is you can't replace all the added functionality that apps bring just with flash websites.
    Last edited by SnotBoogie; 09/12/2011 at 10:48 PM.
    You come at the king. You best not miss.
  18. DRFP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theonlyix View Post
    Apps are 90% on those platforms where flash isnt available or where not all webpages can be viewed....

    there is not nearly as much need for apps on the TP as there is on an IPad.

    This my friend, is a percieved need, not an actual one.
    75% of the Apps iOS has are duplicates and some useless to many people

    I'm not here to criticize the Touchpad but to learn how to make it better.
  19. #79  
    For $99, you can't find a better 10" 720P video player. I paid $250 for a 32 GB TP off e-Bay just planning to use it as a video player for my kid. Even at that price, it's a bargain backseat entertainer.

    However, after preware and overclocking, I liked the TP so much that I bought a TouchStone and keyboard for it (typing on that now). I think I'll be using this for a lot more than Sesame Street.

    Since I am using it for more than just videos, I am indeed wishing for some of the apps I have on my Android phone (Evernote for one). However, I didn't buy it for apps so I consider everything gravy. The web browser is useful but some important sites just don't work (Evernote for one). I am very sad about Evernote.

    My wife has an iPad 2 and I think it is much nicer than the TP but I don't think iPad 2 is worth $500. I've been tempted by the Galaxy 10.1 but again, $500 is too much for me. I'm sure I'll get a 10" Android someday when a good one falls near $250. The TP will be relegated to the backseat for Curious George and my wife will still be using her iPad. In the meantime, I'm pretty happy with my TP and hundreds in my pocket.
  20. #80  
    Quote Originally Posted by drfp View Post
    75% of the Apps iOS has are duplicates and some useless to many people

    So by that rationale, if AppStore has 200,000 apps (fun number, I'm not looking it up and it isn't really the point), then 150,000 are you're saying 150,000 are duplicates of the 50,000? (which would really mean they are triplicates), or that those 150,000, there's really only 75,000, added to the 50,000 for a total of 125,000? ......that's still a lot of apps, imo.

    Of course there will be useless apps for many people. People come from all walks of life. I drive a I care if my PDF reader works, or my Quick Office works? No I do not. Not one iota. They are useless me. Same goes with office they care about Epocrates? Probably not.

    As will be with every other OS, every other AppStore/Marketplace/Catalog whatever.

    Sure, I have 219 apps and I use 10 of them, regularly, but if some decent apps, and I do mean decent.......GarageBand for example, showed up in the Catalog....I'd probably be more inclined to use them as opposed to downloading the newest, latest & greatest...playing around with it for a couple of days and forgetting about it.

    I DO like my TouchPad, just so you know. Your argument doesn't hold a lot of weight though.

    And I have actually used the PDF reader....a couple of times, but it worked enough for me the couple of times I needed it.....I just don't have a whole lot of use for it.
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