[HardBeatZ]

More like:

HP copying last year's devices and not making anything compelling = Mistake.

I knew I should have gotten last years tablet. Oh well at least it's been copied for this year.

[tholap]

More like:

HP copying last year's devices and not making anything compelling = Mistake.

Please provide a fey examples of devices from last year that HPalm is copying from for Pr3, Veer and Touchpad.
I'd like to buy one of those - being last year they must now be available for cheap.

[Milenkod]

Please provide a fey examples of devices from last year that HPalm is copying from for Pr3, Veer and Touchpad.
I'd like to buy one of those - being last year they must now be available for cheap.

The context of this thread is the Touchpad, not the Pre/Veer.
The touchpad with exception of the FF camera is competing with the iPad 1
Unless you have a Pre3 as well then all you have is an iPad copycat. If you don't have nor planning to get a Pre3, for what reason would you get a touchpad? If those unique features were available no matter what smartphone you used, it could be much more compelling to a wider range of potential tablet buyers. It would be it's own tablet, not quite a copycat.

[Milenkod]

If the main reason for using a Touchpad is to interface with another webOS device then it will never get off the ground. Why? Because because you hardly ever see webOS smartphones out in use among the general public and only a small subset of those users will be carrying around a tablet.

^^ What he said. ^^

HP needs to forget about integration into their proprietary hardware....for now. Once they put-up iPad-like numbers they they can steer this approach; they need to get noticed first. This is, however, all in concept with the consumer market. The commercial market they could probably absorb this tight integration, though.

[FischOderAal]

At the time Palm was still Palm they said webOS would be open for licensing. We didn't hear anyone taking the chance. This was the last resort of Palm trying to gain marketshare as well as pouring money into their pockets.

Now with Palm being a part of HP I don't think they will give up a key differentiator. The reason Samsung has Touchwiz and HTC has Sense is to differentiate themselves from their competitors in the crowded Tablet and Smartphone market.

[sorli]

Yes I agree with many of your comments. HP should open things up and make it capable of linking with everything and anything - want to browse from a Pre and then switch to a Mac...dock in Touchstone 2.0 and magically continue where you left off.

The one place HP is missing is system integration - Add more storage and even a built-in AM/FM/HD Radio, and we now have a car radio replacement with the right dock that serves both media and utility like GPS maps and mobile info updates. All tablets and phones running webOS need to offer free tethering so staying connected is possible no matter what you buy. Sorli...

[slbailey1]

I was just thinking HP should write apps for the other platforms and sell them; would you buy a $9.99 app along with your TP to enable those features? Small premium for non webOS phone owners to pay....

Yes, If I was buying a TouchPad.

[Rennat]

I think we should all meet in a viking war arena and fight it out. The last one standing is correct. We could also have a choice of weapons: apples, little green robots, or razor sharp cards.

[tholap]

The context of this thread is the Touchpad, not the Pre/Veer.

Fair enough. Please provide a link to last years Tablet/Pad device that has multi-tasking 1.2 GHz dual core processor, great non-blocking notifications, front-facing camera, ...

The touchpad with exception of the FF camera is competing with the iPad 1
Unless you have a Pre3 as well then all you have is an iPad copycat. If you don't have nor planning to get a Pre3, for what reason would you get a touchpad? If those unique features were available no matter what smartphone you used, it could be much more compelling to a wider range of potential tablet buyers. It would be it's own tablet, not quite a copycat.

"copycat" - we need to make a distinction here.
In general terms of Tablet/Pad/Slate formfactor *everybody* (Samsung, HP, RIM, etc...) is doing copycats based on IPads success.

But in specific details webos devices differ (multi-tasking, card metaphor, notifications, Touchstone, ...).

Counter question: Unless you are invested in ITunes ecosystem why would you get an IPad?
Don't get me wrong - there are solid reasons to get an IPad - chief among them the already large app selection. But there's also good reasons to prefer one of the alternatives - like the Touchpad. When it comes to multi-tasking and UI Apple has still not caught up with webos - IMHO.

And it now looks likely that HP will start an avalanche of integration with printers, your PC/Laptop and anything else they can think of. And they already have lots of options to do so.

As I said above - neither RIMs Playbook, nor Samsungs Galaxy devices, nor HPalms Touchpad are likely to be big sellers soon to those who are already heavily invested in the Apple/ITunes/IPod/IPhone system. For the near future most sales will come from those who are yet to fully embrace smartphones/tablets and at the beginning of investing in any app store. And there are still plenty of such potential customers around.

Apple took a risk when they pushed again into the potential of a tablet market that various companies tried to get into for many years. And this time the timing was right and they had a great product and the risk is paying off for Apple in large initial market share. Fair enough. But when Android first appeared most reviewers were skeptic about their chances against IPhone - in a situation that is very similar now when you replace smartphones with tablets. Now - after Android has conquered the #1 spot in smartphones those early reviewes look silly.

I'm not saying webos/Touchpad is destined for success. It might fail, or muddle through or be a great success in 4 years.
All I'm saying is that Apples continued success isn't guaranteed either and HPs Touchpad is a solid first entry. The hardware is competitive enough - and to many people outside this forum specs ain't that important or even understandable. They look at several devices and then buy what appeals to them. And the Touchpad has some nice advantages over the IPad. Whether those are enough is an individual choice that will vary a lot amongst customers. We'll know by the end of the year.

And those who are most inclined to buy an IPad - have already done so. And even some of those will have been annoyed by some Apple particulars that will make a Touchpad more appealing.

[Milenkod]

Fair enough. Please provide a link to last years Tablet/Pad device that has multi-tasking 1.2 GHz dual core processor, great non-blocking notifications, front-facing camera, ...

Im not sure I get your point here??

"copycat" - we need to make a distinction here.
In general terms of Tablet/Pad/Slate formfactor *everybody* (Samsung, HP, RIM, etc...) is doing copycats based on IPads success.

...and how's that working for them? Did Samsung not recently say they needed to go back and evaluate their device when iPad2 was announced? The Xoom sold how many? How did it work out for the Zune ala iPod? RIM Playbook is only in the hands of reviewers; not on the market that I know of...yet. Although they stole the webOS concept and injury to insult, beat HP to market.

But in specific details webos devices differ (multi-tasking, card metaphor, notifications, Touchstone, ...).

Strong iOS sales show those being minor to dissuade iOS purchasers. Otherwise webOS and the Pre would have been a smashing success and Palm would still exist today.

Counter question: Unless you are invested in ITunes ecosystem why would you get an IPad?
Don't get me wrong - there are solid reasons to get an IPad - chief among them the already large app selection. But there's also good reasons to prefer one of the alternatives - like the Touchpad. When it comes to multi-tasking and UI Apple has still not caught up with webos - IMHO.

Wholeheartedly agree. I left webOS for an iPhone (for economics, believe it or not...entirely different conversation). The iPhone is great; solid build, great reliability and performance. However I felt like the UI and UX is a 1/2-step backwards. iOS conventions are getting really old. Many things can be improved. I have an extensive iTunes library but hardly ever sync....only for the infrequent back-up. However, it looks as though Apple is making a correction to the tethering-to-iTunes approach. This may invalidate the iTunes argument as it turns more into a service.

But when Android first appeared most reviewers were skeptic about their chances against IPhone - in a situation that is very similar now when you replace smartphones with tablets. Now - after Android has conquered the #1 spot in smartphones those early reviewes look silly.

How could they not be skeptic at first? Android 1.0 sucked. I always had a feeling that it would take three revisions/three years to get it right. Same as iPhone and I expect the same with webOS. Android has far more potential to plateau should Google limit their help/funding into hardware partner integration. Perhaps this is what happened to the Xoom?

All I'm saying is that Apples continued success isn't guaranteed either and HPs Touchpad is a solid first entry.

This is assuming Apple will stand idle. They have proven that just when their product is about to become stale, they hit the market with a game changer....no guarantee they can keep up this pace, but they've hit home runs most every time. They've got a good formula. HP has potential with a solid foundation in webOS. I hope they can hold to tight integration with hardware and software. Something Google has less control over. Back to the Xoom...perhaps too much software and UI expectation than hardware could embrace. When I tried the Xoom my first impression was to grab a RedBull and attack the UI/UX with ADHD fervor. It was something so different from the foundation that Android was built upon....as if they are trying too hard to build their next thing.

And those who are most inclined to buy an IPad - have already done so

I disagree. Those who are savvy, wanted an iPad have them (iPad1). There are many more that haven't been exposed to the iPad until it is shown them. I didn't think it was such a big deal until I tried one out. Within a few minutes, I got the concept and thought it was fantastic. So for many, its not something you think you want until you've been exposed. I know of at least a dozen friends/family members who bought an iPad upon being shown by someone else who has it. This is a big part of the success of the iPad2.

And even some of those will have been annoyed by some Apple particulars that will make a Touchpad more appealing.

well, here too. I'm waiting for the TouchPad before I buy an iPad2. Still way too many Flash sites on the web and webOS multitasking is Like A Boss. I'd be won over for sure over the iPad2 knowing that the differentiating features for smartphone integration wasn't limited to HP hardware only (Pre3/Veer).