[dsei]

Another thing to consider is that the notion of relying on a gesture bar on a large screen device breaks down when there's the option of mouse input. They did say they were putting webOS on a netbook right? Also imagine being able to put your Touchpad on a Touchstone dock with a keyboard and mouse waiting for input. Your tablet could transform from into a pc by just setting it down. I want that!

Also, just because the gesture bar is going away on large screen devices doesn't mean it will go away on phones. I suspect it will always be there on phones. I'm pretty sure Enyo and its paneled layouts will still support "gesturing". On large screens you have panels. On small screens, those panels transform into what we know as scenes now. That's all speculation of course...

[cyberprashant]

they're getting ready to make webos a desktop os. Touch will work, but the standard keyboard and mouse pc's must work too.

how do you gesture w a mouse.

not a huge loss for me.

[Cantaffordit]

Gesturing was done within the app, notification area at the top, and within the notifications.

Examples: In the email app (which was awesome) sliding to the right would expose another frame with additional detail. Gorgeous on the touchpad, not usable on a phone.

In the notification area, different gestures on the message had specific meetings. I don't remember them exactly, but it was something like: Left swipe dismissed that message and brought up the next notification, swipe right deleted it, etc. I made up the specifics on that one because I don't remember other than there were are multiple gestures within the app and within the notifications. I was very impressed.

[IcerC]

I was there. I touched. I talked to several product managers. I asked hard questions. I made them show me answers instead of just telling me something. I don't believe what they say, the proof was in showing me.

Did you spend time actually trying the TouchPad and talking to the productmanager? Or are you just dis-believing whatever Palm says, and/or believing whatever anyone says that doesn't like Palm?

Touched the button? :,o Good for you! How'd it feel!

I have the ipad and I had a palm pre. I know what the experience of tapping a button to leave an app and swishing my finger on the gesture bar. I prefer the gesture area.

One gesture bar on each side would be perfect for a tablet. period. .. . .

[IcerC]

That's sounds about as impressive as gesturing in the gallery app lol.

Swipe up could easily still be implemented just like swiping down on the pre would open the menu bar.

[chodaboy]

No gesture area means:
No BACK gesture - App developers must add a Back button for the tablet, but what about phones?
No FORWARD gesture - App developers must add Forward button for the tablet, but what about phones?
No FULL SWIPE gesture to change to next or previous app (Full Swipe app switching is really handy when referring between apps. Do you really won't to go back and forth to card view??)
NO WAVE BAR!!! - I use the wave bar all of the time!
No Meta-Tap
No UP SWIPE gesture to bring up the Launcher

Personally, I think the "TouchPad" is a repurposed Android tablet and HP is trying to convince people the gesture area is not needed so they won't have to add one. LAME.

If the TouchPad is released without a gesture area, I won't buy one. PERIOD.

[IcerC]

Actually swipe up for launched and wave bar can still work.

[DDT1345]

I've been following this thread closely and have posted my opinion that I think the removal of the gesture area is a collosally bad move. However, now that we are 9 pages in to this thread I think it is time for a poll.

Can the OP add a poll to this thread after the fact? If so, I was thinking something simple:

1. I think the gesture area is a key differentiator for the TouchPad and removing it was a bad move. BRING IT BACK HP!

2. I think the TouchPad will be fine without a gesture area.

3. I don't care either way.

Can we get this poll posted to this thread or should I start a new thread?

Kevin

[Littulb]

Sure enough HP could have managed the gesture area in the small space where the button is but maybe they were attempting not to sacrifice screen real estate. Heres to thinking that gestures will be CODED into the OS....on the screen itself (somewhere). That would make reason for "custom" gestures. There will be the standard gestures as in the previous devices....but using an area on the screen for gestures opens up the possibilities for the user to create his own gesture experience. THAT WOULD BE GREAT. But again, just hoping. It's just HARD for me to believe that HP would do away with something that branded the WebOs!!!

[PLinger]

From TiPb

Swipe up from the bottom bezel to reveal the multitasking Fast App Switcher Dock

Only for developers though. First Blackberry Tablet OS, then Android with the "experimental" side gestures in the browser and now iOS. But on the tablet with the OS that started the trend...

[retroblu]

No gesture area means:
No BACK gesture - App developers must add a Back button for the tablet, but what about phones?
No FORWARD gesture - App developers must add Forward button for the tablet, but what about phones?
No FULL SWIPE gesture to change to next or previous app (Full Swipe app switching is really handy when referring between apps. Do you really won't to go back and forth to card view??)
NO WAVE BAR!!! - I use the wave bar all of the time!
No Meta-Tap
No UP SWIPE gesture to bring up the Launcher

Personally, I think the "TouchPad" is a repurposed Android tablet and HP is trying to convince people the gesture area is not needed so they won't have to add one. LAME.

If the TouchPad is released without a gesture area, I won't buy one. PERIOD.

i completely agree w/ you...but one think i did think of for meta-tap that they could implement would be to hold the "home button" for you to highlight items to copy and at the same time pop up a little "notification area" below the card w/ copy, paste...etc

(EDIT
hmmmm.....
i guess they wave bar could be implemented the same way, tap and slide up from "home button"

up swipe for launcher instead of tapping twice....could work the same w/ the "home button" as well, but not as well i dont think, but looking at the prototype we saw in the video of the touchpad it has a fairly large elongated oval which could sense a directional swipe upward, and maybe even sideways, the light we've seen on demo models for the "home button" just didnt seem like it would be possible....but now im thinking otherwise(man i hope HP is just keeping mum)

[Doz007]

I can't believe they haven't included the gesture area because it's a huge part of the WebOS experience imo.

You only need to take a look at some PlayBook hands on videos on YouTube to see how well gestures work on a tablet device.

[Cantaffordit]

I can't believe they haven't included the gesture area because it's a huge part of the WebOS experience imo.

You only need to take a look at some PlayBook hands on videos on YouTube to see how well gestures work on a tablet device.

Dont be confused by thinking that the lack of the gesture area means the lack of gestures. There is a big huge display to work with and you can gesture all over it.

[Doz007]

Dont be confused by thinking that the lack of the gesture area means the lack of gestures. There is a big huge display to work with and you can gesture all over it.

Yeah, I understand that. But one of the big reasons for me leaving iOS for WebOS last year was the gesture area. It made moving through the UI a breeze. Navigating between open apps without having to return to card view & opening new apps using the quicklaunch wave was a huge improvement to the 'iOS button'.

[realistdreamer]

I have to say, this was a huge disappointment and one of the things that pushed me over the top to order an iPad2. I played with an iPad2 in the store today and boy do I miss gestures. I wanted to back swipe so many times. Sure, I'll get used to buttons and hitting the back button in apps, but this was a lot less satisfying than a good ol' swipe.

Gestures would have been great in commercials to show the elegance of webOS and now it's gone. We still have cards and notifications though. Wonder when iOS will fix that?

[dandbj13]

Gestures would have been great in commercials to show the elegance of webOS and now it's gone. We still have cards and notifications though. Wonder when iOS will fix that?

Use a Mac? Download xcode for $5 from the Mac App Store, connect your iPad and start swiping away. I've been using gestures on my iPad 2 from the beginning. Their baked into 4.3. You just have to turn them on.

[Cantaffordit]

Yeah, I understand that. But one of the big reasons for me leaving iOS for WebOS last year was the gesture area. It made moving through the UI a breeze. Navigating between open apps without having to return to card view & opening new apps using the quicklaunch wave was a huge improvement to the 'iOS button'.

i don't disagree, but its too early to draw conclusions. On a tiny phone screen they needed a way to provide a common set of gestures that operate from outside an app. It also lends itself to the thumb-operated aspect of a portrait phone. Not the same as a large tablet that is more of an index-finger operation...

with a tablet-size screen, they can use many methods, that could perhaps be better.

for example, they could use a two or three finger swipe right on the display. Or reserve the edge pixels on the main display for gestures.

the 10 tablet isn't as "thumb operated" so gestures could be anywhere.

until the pad ships or we can see the final webOS interface it will use, it is really not helpful to draw conclusions that it will be bad, that palm screwed up, etc. Gestures aren't going away.

[Doz007]

i don't disagree, but its too early to draw conclusions. On a tiny phone screen they needed a way to provide a common set of gestures that operate from outside an app. It also lends itself to the thumb-operated aspect of a portrait phone. Not the same as a large tablet that is more of an index-finger operation...

with a tablet-size screen, they can use many methods, that could perhaps be better.

for example, they could use a two or three finger swipe right on the display. Or reserve the edge pixels on the main display for gestures.

the 10 tablet isn't as "thumb operated" so gestures could be anywhere.

until the pad ships or we can see the final webOS interface it will use, it is really not helpful to draw conclusions that it will be bad, that palm screwed up, etc. Gestures aren't going away.

I really do hope you're right. As mentioned earlier the new iPad multitasking gestures are a great addition to that OS. Something similar would work well on the TouchPad.

Although I can't help feeling that in some areas HP are just outright copying rather than innovating. The new email app is a good example of what I'm talking about, the button to return to home screen being another.

More of the innovation like touch-to-share, notifications and synergy in Pictures would be the direction i'd like them to take rather than becoming Apple copycats.

[Cantaffordit]

When you see the TouchPad notifications in person, I'll bet you are as impressed as I was. They had all kinds of advanced gestures there.

And i've seen advanced gestures starting to show up in apps like SPAZ, so it's clearly possible in 2.x

[Zyphlin]

If it has an onscreen gesture that allows for "back" and a gesture so that we can get to an app launcher or card view without pressing a button then I will have no complaints.

If it doesn't have those abilities then frankly then to me this becomes a MAJOR disappointment and removes one of the key reasons I was originally holding out for a WebOS tablet.

I don't want to have to find and hit a back button. I don't want to press a little button on the bezel constantly. I want to swipe, I want to flick, I want to gesture. That is what made webOS amazingly fun and intuitive to use and one of the things that makes me think that I'll stick it out with WebOS everytime I use an Android or iOS device despite their massively better app situations.

If HP does away with that and tries to sell me with "just hit the button" or "just click back on the screen" then they'll have ruined one of the largest reasons why I'd buy their tablet.