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  1.    #1  
    Interesting editorial on the front page of TC, but you have to wonder if the writer ever used a Treo 600.

    There are some who will argue that the Treo 600 shouldn't be compared with the BlackBerry, as the palmOne device is a smartphone, not a wireless handheld. However, the two devices perform roughly the same functions and are fighting over the same target audience, so I think the comparison is valid.
    It's more accurate to say that the Treo 600 can do roughly everything that the RIM can do, but not the other way around. I have a friend who uses a Blackberry on T-Mobile, and he was floored when I showed him the voice memos, remote control of my desktop, DVD viewing, Verichat, and PDAnet. Not to mention the simple fact that people are releasing new programs for the Treo 600 (Palm OS) weekly.

    Now maybe a lot of folks simply just don't need all of those things. Or maybe RIM has done a lot better marketing job than Handspring. But if you're going to be honest about it I don't think you can really compare the two as equal peers.
  2. #2  
    I have never used a blackberry, but they have a couple of things working for them:

    a bigger KB. I think the treo's works great, but ppl seem to like the Berrys.
    Push out of box, sure you need to pay for server side software but . . .
    they market to the higher ups in the company and they usually get no lip from IT when they request something.
    On the road to 5,000 posts
    Life is what happens between Firmware releases.
  3. KKenna's Avatar
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    Here's the real thing keeping RIM in market share: They have an extremely stable solution and a handheld environment that can't become too complicated. I agree with dude that the Treo can do everything the Blackberry can do and more, but when you're looking at supporting 10-100 handhelds in the corporate environment, the only competition to Blackberry comes in the form of the Good Technologies server (vs the BES). What's more, most companies that support wireless handhelds have already geared up with a BES and have many devices deployed. They have traning programs and purchasing deals all based on RIM. While we all know that the Blackberry is way behind in terms of functionality, introducing change into the corporate environment is always difficult if not impossible.

    Once the Blackberry e-mail solution is ported to the Palm environment, Treos will become more widely accepted in the corporate world. If one of my clients approaches me today, I try and get them to purchase the Good Technologies server for the Back Office, to allow their users the choice of Blackberry or Treo, but you have to offset that with the level of support required when you give a non-tech a device like a Treo 600 that they can load all kinds of crap on without too much trouble and screw the pooch in a matter of minutes if they get the wrong title on the handheld. Besides the fact that there's just nowhere near the amount of 3rd party apps for the Blackberry, the basic user just doesn't know how or simply can't load titles on that handheld. The IT staff hands the RIM device to the user, and they're off and running and rarely come back with a problem. Until the next iteration of back-end support for Palm devices (Like Seven), Blackberry still wins in the corporate environment. It's going to be a photo-finish IMHO because RIM's lead in this race is getting smaller by the minute (From a technical point of view).

    One thing is for sure: No empire has ever lasted for ever. Whereas in 1999 the ONLY solution of this nature was Blackberry, the world has caught on, and, in a true competitive environment, this technology will be propelled at an extremely fast rate. One mis-step, and you're out of the running.

    Gonna be an interesting couple of years for this industry.
  4. #4  
    I've had a question in the back of my mind for a while now and this appears to be just as good of a place to ask it as a new thread. When everyone talks about the Treo having a Blackberry Email Solution soon, does that really mean that the Treo will have BES integration support?

    The reason why I ask is that my CIO is a die hard Blackberry fanatic (must own shares) and because of it, it's impossible for us to buy a product such as NotifyLink to do messaging with PalmOS and PocketPC. Now as others have said here, "It's more accurate to say that the Treo 600 can do roughly everything that the RIM can do, but not the other way around." but this is one piece of the puzzle that I won't be able to win unless I can get the Treo integrated with the BES. I'm not a big fan of the BES design methodology but at least it would get me live messaging on my Treo.

    Can anyone clarify what kind of Blackberry support will the Treo support?
  5. #5  
    PalmSource is currently developing a Blackberry client for all Palm OS handhelds. Once they do that, it is up to palmone to bundle it (built in) on the Treo. I don't know a timeframe for this, but it was mentioned in the Q4 conference call.
    -Michael Ducker
    TreoCentral Staff
  6. #6  
    Come on people. it's obvious.

    RIM is a full solution right out of the box. Most companies have already installed the server software.

    Here are some reasons why. (This is from a year ago)

    Blackberry is Always On - You are instantly notified of new e-mail messages and calendar updates. All e-mail is real-time.
    Push vs. Pull - You do not need to manually initiate a connection. Blackberry uses Push technology, where new data (e-mail,calendar) is pushed out to the device. E-mail replies or calendar data on the Blackberry is pushed back to the server. On the Palm/Pocket PC device, you have to initiate a connection and "replicate" your mail locally to your device. You then make changes, re-connect and "replicate" again.
    Ease of Use - Blackberry does not use a stylus/touchpad, etc. It uses a thumb-wheel for navigation. Blackberry includes an easy-to-use keyboard for composing and replying to e-mail.
    Lower Cost of Ownership - Combined Phone/Blackberry devices are now priced beginning at $250.00, which individuals are responsible for.
    Lower Software Expense - PDA requires an xTND Connect license of $135. Blackberry requires a $60 user license.
    Adoption Rate - Based on existing users, 50% of users cancel their Palm/Pocket PC service. Only about 2-3% cancel their Blackberry service.
    Support Costs - By supporting only one platform, we can reduce support costs and negotiate better rates.
  7. #7  
    I have never used a Blackberry, and refused one when it was supplied to me free of charge. I changed mobile providers and spent my own money to buy a Treo because I wanted the Palm OS (I switched from Kyocera 6035 on Verizon to Treo 600 on Tmobile).

    My Treo can do a hundred things the Blackberry cannot. However one thing remains true: The Blackberry just works. The guys I know have no problems, which means no support required from IT.

    Conversely the Treo is much more sophisticated, but in my opinion much more complex. If something happens to me and my wife needs to dial 911 I hope we are near a payphone because the Treo completely intimidates her (seems simple to me).

    In order to get e-mail to work I had to do a week of research and go completely off the reservation from an IT perspective. I love it and am completely happy with it, but a Blackberry client would be a definite improvement, and make it more appealing. But in the end I think the Blackberry is always going to have more mass market appeal.
  8. sledgie's Avatar
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    Yep, I had the Blackberry 957 a while back - it was fantastic (except when it was underground and had no service)
    Push Email is great - alerted me immediately when I had new mail.
    Similar to Sprints Mail Notification for SMS
    But it does work - and it works well, especially for businesses who need constant contact with their clients/employees via email.
    The treo i think is in a whole different category - while it can be used for business, because of the PalmOS it can do a lot of other things as well. Blackberry/Rim failed on the developer's horizon - unless the program was business/email oriented. With treo/PalmOs you can listen to music, watch movies (somewhat), games, excel spreadsheet, a whole lot of different things. I don't recall ever finding a BibleToGo (tm) program for Blackberry, and i dont think I ever will. Simply put, Blackberry is an extension of a communication device between office and client/employee. The treo can go further, and does. When Sprint adopts the RIM service for email, the treo will have one more thing it can add to its list.
  9. #9  
    Ease of Use - Blackberry does not use a stylus/touchpad, etc. It uses a thumb-wheel for navigation. Blackberry includes an easy-to-use keyboard for composing and replying to e-mail.
    Have you every tried to use Blackberry's Excel viewer? You'll sure wish you had a stylus and touchpad then! I have to admit that I do miss the thumb wheel as I was hoping the Treo would design something simular where the volume buttons currently are (who adjusts the volume that often anyways). Back when I had a RIM and moved to a Treo 270, I also missed Group sends and delivery status icons.

    I wouldn't call the RIM keyboard any better than the treo layout. I can type one handed with the Treo no problem, the newer Blackberry's are wider which makes one handed work a little tougher.

    Blackberry's are simple devices that are meant for simple people. I don't mean that in a bad way as simple is sometimes better. Nothing makes them special except they created an Enterprise Server Platform first that really does not do much more that other solutions can do for other PDA models. The truth is, other PDA sync solutions are much cheaper (and even work better with Blackberry) than BES but all are third party solutions.
  10. #10  
    I can't tell you how many Treo sales have been lost to Blackberrys at my office. Two reasons drive the decision making process.

    One: Corporate IT supports Blackberrys only - they are going to offer no help getting your Treo to interface with Lotus Notes.

    Two: If you are senior enough, the company pays for it. Free phone vs expensive phone? I'll go with free phone.

    It's going to be tough to stop the corporate juggernaut that Blackberry seems to have become. Even if the email software is ported to the Treo, corporate IT staff are unlikely to support anything other than the standard blue fisher-price lookalike machine they role out to people from the CEO down.

    I figured I'd go against the flow (plus nobody was going to buy me a blackberry!)

  11. #11  
    OK, so call me crazy, but for the time being I am carrying both a Treo 600 and a Blackberry 7230. The Treo is mine, and I have configured it with TreoHelper and Snappermail so that I get the closest thing to push email possible. The BB is provided by my company, and since we have a BES, the wireless sychronization with my inbox and calendar is ideal. I use the Treo to read and respond to the emails (bigger, easier to read fonts) and to view attachements, and then I use the BB to file the emails. I am hoping that this is a temporary situation until the RIM software is available for the Treo.

    And yes, I did ask our IT folks to look into the goodlink solution, but they get a "better deal" on their BB server solution.
  12. kabamm's Avatar
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    RIM 850 (3 yrs - beautiful, elegant) > RIM 957 (3 yrs - unwieldy) > BB 7230 (1 yr - ugly and awkward - lousy OS and crappy connectivity) > Treo 600 (6 mo. - gorgeous and sexy )

    The Blackberry is far and away more convenient for novice non-tech users and the keyboard was *dreamy* by comparison to the T600. However, the PDA functions of the BB are all but useless, which is why I no longer carry one. Fortunately I no longer work in a corporate environment so I don't need the instant e-mail, I just check it when I need to see if something has showed up in my POP account.

    Supporting multiple platforms would be very expensive for a corporate IT department. Folks want the sun, the moon, and the stars, but they don't want to pay for them... If you get the company to agree to pay (and hire more staff), your IT department will be very happy to support it. Don't rag too hard on those techs slaving away in their cubicles...
  13. #13  
    There is currently a Treo 600 client that handles push email - Chatter. It is available from In addition to handling push email, it also handles chat functions with the four major services. Mark Blanc, the author, has it in beta extending its email capability and it should reach public beta in less than a week. It might be worth looking at. Ben
  14. tannyo's Avatar
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    The problem with the Blackberry is that you cannot categorize Tasks which is essencial when using the Getting Things Done methodology by David Allen. This makes the Blackberry totally unusable for me. Also as part of the GTD, I'm not driven by email but look at email when I'm ready to look at email. It makes me a lot more efficient. If it's that important, I can be paged via SMS on my Treo 600.

    If you absolutely need to be notified of each and every email message when it arrives in your inbox, try Pylon Anywhere. It uses a specific SMS message to trigger a synchronization on the Treo. This saves your battery which the XTND Systems solution doesn't do and is very quick. A collegue of mine is using it and he gets notified on his Treo 600 of new email before his email program tells him he has new email.

    I think that the success of the Blackberry is it's simplicity, however I find it lacking in features I use every day, like web browsing. I believe that forward looking companies will have to web enable applications and the BES solution for web browsing has problems with their implementation right now. (The network id used for the proxy server gets locked out all the time is one.)

    What made the Palm a success in the first place is it's simplicity. IT needs to know how to package the Palm so that it again looks simple to the end user the it will be easier to accept. It looks simple on the outside but has all that great functionality on the inside.
  15. #15  
    You can prioritize your tasks on the Blackberry using a letter and number before each task. For instance:

    A1 Quaterly Sales Reports
    A3 Budget Planning
    B1 Call Sue
    C1 Wash Car
    C3 Buy Treo
  16. #16  
    i had a blackberry for a while and could never get used to it.
  17.    #17  
    Info here and release article here.
  18. #18  
    DumbEditors name BB7100 Editor's Choice for SmartPhones, even though it gets an "NA" for Smartphone features (vs. 5/5 for the Treo!)

    BTW, RIM is releasing Blackberry Connect for the Palm (so will there be any need for a Blackberry?)
    Last edited by drrjv; 10/01/2004 at 10:00 AM.
  19. #19  
    You are forgetting the most important Most people are idiots. The more that can happen automatically and the less a person can play with, the better.

    The vast majority of people in a business environment are not tech-savvy. They are just going to mess something like a Treo up because for them the flexibility is a negative. Surely you know people at work who think if they can't receive an email, their computer is broken. There are good reasons that IT depts only support Blackberrys.

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