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  1.    #1  
    I seem to read more and more often on this board: "I used to have a Palm ages ago...".

    I myself started using the very first Palm's (Pilot 1000) then went to Pocket PC (Nino), came back to a Palm V and then back to an IPAQ for 2 years... until the Treo came along.

    I think when it came down to it I seemed to use the IPAQ mostly as an organiser (I had games and other multimedia stuff installed but never used them) and e-book reader. The battery was always running out and I would always fumble around holding my phone up trying to get emails. Maybe I will miss MP3, but I can always get an iPOD that does the job much better!

    I really think it will take alot to make me change again (even with my track record), the Palm platform and its use in the Treo is so much more practical even if it does lack the bells and whistles that Pocket PC has. Power consumption and form factor have to be the most important factors for mobility and usability.

    I was wondering how many Pocket PC defectors there are out there?
  2. #2  
    I don't know if i was ever a complete defector, but I made a deliberate attempt to switch to the iPaq full-time. When I saw the treo I jumped back immediately.

    Now I'm happy as a clam (although would be happier with a model in a year with high-res, Xscale, OS5/6, a KeyContacts-based Phone app and the ability to be a bluetooth modem for my laptop)
  3. #3  
    My sentiments would be exactly the same as the previous two posts. I started out with an NEC MobilePro (Windows CE clamshell design) then got a Jornada Pocket PC the 1st week Pocket PC's came out. They I moved to the Ipaq for a couple of years. I am really sold on the convergent device and that's why I was so anxious to try the Treo. I've got the 180 with keyboard and love it.
    Up the Creek.... Try the River!

  4. #4  
    I never thought I'd use any Palm unit, but when the 180 came out, I heard sirens. Then the rates with T-Mobile -- especially the much better international calling rates- and the color 270, sold me. I'd probably go back to PPC or to Symbian in a minute, though, if either came up with a Treo-like solution, i.e., compact, integrated, keyboard, and innovative functionality -along with a good service plan.
    You may be right; I may be crazy. But, the Treo may be just the device I've been looking for.
  5. #5  
    I actually just went the other way. I had a 270 (and a 180 before that, and several Palms before that). I just purchased the TMo XDA (Pocket PC Phone Edition) after trying a friends for a weekend.

    As much as I've been a die hard Palm guy for many years (I had the original Palm Pilot 1000!) I have to tell you, the XDA blows the 270 away IMO in just about every respect. There's even a great workaround for the lack of keyboard, a soft landscape keyboard from SPB software that works great. I'm still getting to know the PPC OS, and while it is somewhat more complicated than the Palm OS, the 'complexity' issue is way overblown IMO, especially if you are the least bit tech savvy - and I really mean least bit.

    I'm keeping my eye on the hardware situation, as I'm not afraid to trade up and across as needed. I may try the Sony/Ericsson 800 and the iPaq 5000 when they release the GSM/GPRS version next year, but in the meantime I consider the XDA leaps and bounds above the the Treo.

  6. #6  
    I agree that calling the pocket pc family (or the psion stuff) "too complex" is a red herring. I've used a number of handhelds from the old HP 95 up to my current Treo.

    For me, the difference came down to a couple of things:

    1) Form Factor - a PDA is only useful if you have it with you and I'd much rather stick a treo in my pocket than an iPaq or similarly sized device. Maybe if the dress code here required blazers more often, but for jeans pocket uses, the Treo (with integrated hard screen cover) can't be beat. This was the death of the Newton in my mind, great little machine, still a competitive feature set but huge and unwieldy.

    2) Software - believe it or not the lack of a free SSH client for Pocket PC (at least when I was using those, not sure now) was a deal breaker. Lots of options for windows-centric terminal server fun, but no cross-platform login shell. I installed all the crazy-fun apps on Pocket PC for movies, mp3, twitch-games but I find that I only used software that also exists for Palm.

    3) Windows - I use all kinds of machines - mainly OS X and NetBSD these days, but bounce from machine to machine with wild abandon at work. It's possible (and often very easy) to get palm sync working, but well nigh impossible with pocket pc. Newtons were even worse than PocketPC in that respect and Psions were sort of in the middle. I do have that Pocket-PC on mac software package, and have used Virtual PC just for that, but it's a kludge.

    As always these are matters of personal opinion - if the T-Mobile Sidekick, a PocketPC Phone or a bluetooth phone/pda combo works for you then more power to you.
  7. #7  
    I'm a great defector!

    I went from Windows CE (at it was called then) to Symbian and then now to Palm OS with my Treo 270.

    I'm not crazy about Palm OS, as it comes bare.
    On the other hand, Pocket PC comes with Pocket edition of Word, Excel, etc.
    Which, at the end of the day, makes a big difference budgetwise.

    Why did I switch to Palm OS?
    Because of the Treo' design:
    I use my 'Smartphone' (or however you want to call it) to take notes in meetings, read / write Emails, review reports and create spreadsheets while answering / making phone calls and of course using my Contact, Todo, etc. lists all the time.

    In other words, I am always looking for the best 'all in one' device.

    Despite major drawbacks (mostly technicals - see this forum!), I went to Treo for its keyboard (I don't want to carry around and plug-in an external keyboard in meetings or in a plane!), GPRS and color screen.
    Memorywise, it is very weak, though.

    If tomorrow a competitor comes up with a better device, I'll shift immediatly, disregarding the OS run, as they all have their plus and minus.
    That's the reason why I'm waiting to see the Sony-Ericsson P800 (Symbian) and the HP Jornada 928 (Pocket PC).
    I already saw the XDA Pocket PC phone and was astonished by the quality of the screen (Windows' GPRS setting is very confusing though)!

    A great thing in the communicator world: You can jump ship between OS.
    It is not like in the PC world where you mainly have to choose between Windows, Windows , Windows and maybe Linux!
  8.    #8  
    A few more issues in favour of the Treo:

    The PocketPC platform is much more prone to crashes. With my Treo I need to do a soft reset due to a crash about once every 3 to 5 days, when I was using the iPAQ it was a few times a day.

    The PocketPC uses a multitasking type memory management that slowly eats up your memory. When you switch from one app to the other your memory goes down and MS has never managed to "manage" this correctly, hence there is a lot of waiting for the hourglass equivalent to stop its little show.

    Pocket Word and Pocket Excell have one major disadvantage: the syncing back to the desktop. Any changes you make on the pocket PC will screw up any special formatting in the document: styles, graphs, pictures, numbering.... This means that you can use these tools to start off a document or read it (without graphics), but nothing else. I am trialing Documents to Go by Dataviz and it does not have these problems, I'd rather pay extra but get something that works.
  9. #9  
    I'm a Symbian defector, but only under duress.

    My first PDA was a Psion series 3 and I went up through the models to series 5 and so on, until I bought a Nokia 9110, and my last phone/PDA before the Treo was the 9210 (9290 to the transatlantically-challenged). I also dabbled with early WinCE for about a week before throwing it away in disgust.

    When I saw the Treo I fell in love with the design and physical attributes of it. After carting the brick-like 9210 around, the Treo was a breath of fresh air.

    But I would trade the Treo tomorrow for something that was the same size, with the same sort of thumboard keyboard, but ran Symbian. And I might even be talked into trading the Treo for something the same size with the same keyboard that ran Pocket PC. I don't like PalmOS -- it's far too limited compared to what I'm used to from Symbian.

    Symbian NEVER crashed for me -- ever. On ANY device.

    It didn't have the bloatware aspects of Microsoft yet was heavy duty enough for multimedia and decent applications. For example, compare even commercial PalmOS word processors and the like to the basic stuff that comes with the 9210 and it's no contest. The PalmOS offerings are glorified text editors at best.

    Symbian was originally a keyboard only OS so you could zap around it quite happily without having to keep switching to the pen.

    It had quite possibly the best calendaring application I've ever seen on ANY platform.

    In fact, sometimes (ie. times like this when I *think* about it) I almost regret cross-grading to the Treo from the 9210, you know...

    Oh, and as an aside I've used the XDA too and hated it. Lovely PDA, awful phone.
  10. #10  
    "The PocketPC platform is much more prone to crashes. With my Treo I need to do a soft reset due to a crash about once every 3 to 5 days, when I was using the iPAQ it was a few times a day."

    Hmm, I think this makes your extraordinarily unlucky. My Treo 270 almost never required a soft reset. Is it possible you're running all kinds of software hacks or other programs which dont ovey Palm programming conventions re: memory? Also, which version of PPC were you using with your iPaq? Was it the latest (2002)? It's quite stable now. In fact, removing the TMo software on the XDA makes it (seemingly, in practical use) as stable as the 270.

  11.    #11  
    Agreed, 95% of the crashes on the treo are due to installing 3rd party apps and hacks. Also I just realised that when registering on the phone network, the treo locks up for a few seconds, I have in the past reset it when this happened (yes, OK, I am not very patient! )

    As for the iPAQ it was patched to PC2002 and the crashes were due to installed applications (eg Windows Media Player caused alot of these), but hey, I guess if you don't install any applications you might as well use pencil and paper ;-).
  12. #12  
    Originally posted by manu

    The PocketPC platform is much more prone to crashes. With my Treo I need to do a soft reset due to a crash about once every 3 to 5 days, when I was using the iPAQ it was a few times a day.
    Sorry to say but there isn't a day when I don't have to soft reset at least once (good days).
    Yesterday was an average: Six times!

    When I was using uPaq, I can't remember that I ever had to reset...
    Call me lucky / unlucky?

    Symbian NEVER crashed for me -- ever. On ANY device.
    I must agree on that!
  13. jeeter's Avatar
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    My first pda was the Newton Message Pad 2100. It had some great features (sound, good handwriting recognition, etc) but was an enormous sucker!

    Next was the Compaq Aero (Windows CE based). It was heavy as hell and free or cheap software just didn't exist for the thing. It ran pretty slow, though it did have a spring loaded stylus.

    Next the Sony Clie, my first Palm based pda. Fantastic screen, 128 MB memory stick, mp3's, etc; just loved this thing!

    Then came the Treo 270, a compromise if sorts. The screen wasn't as good as the Clie and no expansion slot, but the quality of the phone and addessbook integration was a winner. Now I'm waiting for the OS5 version with improved battery life and expandability.

    My 2
  14. #14  
    My first and only other PDA was a Palm Pilot Pro which is sitting in a box next to my PC. I showed it to a buddy last night and he wanted to buy it but for some reason I can't sell it even thought I don't even use it anymore. I got a lot of miles out of it before I stopped using the thing. Just recently I decided to take the plunge back into the PDA world and bought a Treo 300 mostly because of the PDA/ Cell phone integration but now I am loving the net access etc.

    I wouldn't really consider changing to another type/brand PDA at the drop of a hat because I like the Palm OS and don't want to pay the penalty for ending the service contract with Sprint early. If I was really dependant on my PDA then I might consider a new one every year though...

    I assume that most of us have these things through work and that switching devices and carriers is no big deal even with the penalty charge?

  15. #15  
    Ok...maybe I missed it but how do I convert data from iPaq (Pocket PC) to the new Treo 650? What do I use?

  16. #16  
    I still use both, haven't given up on either....but then I also have both Mac's and PC's so I'm an equal opportunity geek. The Forum That Asks, "Are You Not Entertained?"

    Remember: "Anyone that thinks the Treo should just work right out of the box, shouldn't own a Treo..."
  17. #17  
    I started with a Palm Pro then upgraded to a m100.

    I went against better judgement and bought a new Dell x30 high end with a crap load of accessories a few months ago. I hardly used the thing.

    Went to my Sprint store to upgrade my phone and fell in love right away with the Treo 650. I especially liked the fact that it was an all in one device.

    The rest is history and the x30 will be hitting ebay soon.
    This is my tagline. There are many like it but this one is mine.
  18. #18  
    I have owned over 40 PDAs and usually have both a Palm and Windows Mobile/Pocket PC in my bag at the same time. The latest Windows Mobile devices I have owned may require a soft reset about every two weeks, but rarely do it on their own and are rock solid.

    As far as size and power consumption go, the i-mate JAM is tough to beat and is smaller than the Treo 650. That said, I sold the JAM and bought myself a Treo 650 because I am such a huge thumb keyboard fan. When a JAM with more RAM and WiFi come out, then I may be heading back to that as my main device.

    I currently have an i-mate PDA2K and Treo 650, the top two Phone devices on the market, and have been carrying the 650 exclusively for over two weeks. I love the way I can control so much with the directional pad and never have to use the stylus. Microsoft hasn't implemented keyboard controllability into the OS well and you always have to pull out the stylus with the PDA2K. The keyboard is good for text input, but that is it.

    This is my first Palm Smartphone and I have to admit it is refreshing to come back to using a Palm Powered device again as my main device rather than a backup to my Pocket PC. I started with the US Robotics Pilot 1000 back in 1997 and the Treo 650 brings back those good old memories.

    BTW, my unlocked GSM 650 has also been very solid and only reset when I try out 3rd party applications and then only about once every 3 days.
    Check out my ZDNet blog at and my SPE site
  19. #19  
    I've used both Palm and PocketPC devices, but if I had a choice, I'd use a PalmOne Treo 700 running PocketPC Phone Edition 2006. I started with a Handspring Visor, moved onto a Viewsonic V37 (developers edition, with .Net CE preloaded on it), then onto the PalmOne branded 600 (I got one of the first non-Handspring batches. Surprisingly, I never had a major problem with it.), and finally onto the 650.

    I'm a Microsoft developer and love the familiarity of the OS, and I agree, the "complexity" issue is way overblown. If you're in this forum, you're not "the masses" who can't figure out how to install a 3rd-party app on your Treo, you're someone who can figure things out on your own. No one in here should be complaining about the complexity of the Start/Programs functionality when there are threads dedicated to flashing your ROM. I'm not using a PocketPC Phone Edition device simply because I like the Treo form factor the best. When they release the 700 with PPPE 2006 on it, I'm all over it.
  20. cec
    cec is offline
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    I have a foot in both camps. My iPaq can do some things my Treo can't - wifi, vga screen, multi tasking.

    If push came to shove and I had to keep one it would be the Treo.
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