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  1.    #1  
    Palm's day as an innovator is long over. They apparantly are not even attempting to keep up with the new advanced phones comming out in Q2-4 2008. Take a look at the Sony-Ericson Xperia, HTC Raphel/Diamond or the LG Prada II. We havenLt even see an Android phone yet. Meanwhile, Palm has the Centro. Is that going to be all we can expect from Palm in the future? Forgettable candybar smart/feature phones firmly entrenched in the low end of a crowded smartphone field? I think it is, and judging by how many posts we now see in this forum, which in years past was extremely active, I do not believe I am alone in that thought. I think it is unfortunate considering how innovative Palm once was that it could have fallen so far.
    VisorPhone Clone
    (Please do not thank me - I find it scary)
  2. #2  
    Like the Treo 800w? Not really sure if you are asking since the body of the post doesn't really look like a question.

    They might have some problems once HTC moves to vga though.
  3.    #3  
    I do not see the 800 as a competitor at all. It os cetainly not inovative. Nor is it Palm's bread and butter anymore. I guess I'm wondering if Palm is going to abondon it's high-end (if you could call the 800w such) and rely on the cute and cheap Centro to carry the company through? I think it will, which means the end of Palm as a cutting edge company. (I guess you could argue that it has not been cutting edge for years).
    VisorPhone Clone
    (Please do not thank me - I find it scary)
  4. #4  
    Competitor for what though? There are different markets.

    Are you talking about business use strictly or what? Also the phone isn't really innovative, it just has more-updated hardware and features than the 700wx. So it basically is a successor to the 700wx.

    If you are talking about the linux, OS that still doesn't have a specific release date.
  5.    #5  
    I don't believe the 800 can compete in any market now in light of the new Phones scheduled to appear this year. It is positioned as a high end phone but has no standout features over other winmo competitors, let alone POS. Palm Linux OS is at best delayed until midway through next year, at worst it is vaporware.

    The only Palm product tht has a niche is the Centro. I believe that as a result, Palm is going to abandon the Treo line in favor of more low end, featureless smartphones.
    VisorPhone Clone
    (Please do not thank me - I find it scary)
  6. #6  
    The difference is that the 800w is actually planned to release fairly soon, whereas the CDMA versions of the new htc phones are even farther off than the GSM versions.

    So barring some huge delay in the release date for the 800w, it has a nice gap of time until the HTC phones are out for CDMA.
  7. #7  
    I dare say the GSM market is far bigger than the CDMA one. Palm may be relegated to the US market and continue in its downward spiral unless it come up with something with which it can compete on a global scale.
    Do not abandon your PalmOS fans. Do not abandon your PalmOS developers. Palm cannot make it alone. If they don't listen theyll diie for sure.
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  8. #8  
    Well the PalmOS developers already appear to be trickling away so that may be too late.

    I think that Palm could be successful even if they mostly focused on the CDMA market (kinda how Microsoft is doing with the Xbox 360). Problem is they aren't even doing a terribly great job at that. A lot of people loved the 700wx, but it took them too long to follow up...

    People got hyped over the 800w for a long time. Problem is if you take too long to release it, hype starts dying off as other developers release their specs...

    But the Centro kinda is what you are talking about. A global competitor (CDMA + GSM) that is affordable and offers a lot of features. The problem is what next? Also the Centro still doesn't capture a lot of the business market that the Treo did.
  9. 1PTUser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by papped View Post
    ... the Centro still doesn't capture a lot of the business market that the Treo did.
    This statement highlights where there might be some misunderstanding in this thread. The Centro was designed to be a low-margin, entry level device directed at a younger demographic and those new to smartphones. It's generally accepted that it's sales have far exceeded expectations.
    Statements have been repeatedly made that Palm's upcoming, higher-margin, WM smartphone (Treo 800w) will be directed at (enterprise) business customers (reason for a no-camera option). If it comes out in July as recently posted, it will have specs that measure up very favorably compared to other business devices. Additionally, the 800w is being positioned as a natural extension to the MS Exchange environments so pervasive in the enterprise.
    Palm's next-gen devices sporting Nova or Palm OS II are suppose to be more consumer and media oriented and available in multiple form factors.
    Let's not compare apples to oranges. Palm's latest offering is directed to one market; it's next offering at another. Unfortunately, the market for many of the pro-sumers and powerusers that make up the TC community may go unserved by Palm until 2009.
    Last edited by 1PTUser; 05/06/2008 at 12:02 AM.
    Something old, something new. I got a ringer switch and 800W .
  10. #10  
    Not really any misunderstanding. I was basically saying the same thing. The Centro doesn't address business users and Palm has nothing slated anytime soon to do so.
  11. 1PTUser's Avatar
    304 Posts
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    My message was primarily directed at the OP.
    Something old, something new. I got a ringer switch and 800W .
  12. #12  
    Basically yeah you hit the reason on the head. I don't want to wait around for 2009 to see if Palm might introduce something I want...
  13. #13  
    Palm's new innovative direction path is staying alive long enough to have Ed C's mansion mortgage paid and if that means targeting the likes of the Hanna Montana teeny bopper crowd then so be it. Palm lost site when their think tanks brain stormed the Foleo and actually thought it was a great idea instead of working on the Palm OS. Palm knew business power users (such as everyone in this forum) had better options like the crackberry and didn't want any part of it. They hire the OG Apple iPod designer dude to put our OS restlessness at bay and blow Linux OS smoke up our @$$. Palm is setting themselves up for something BIG I can feel it...NOT!
  14.    #14  
    I do no agree that the 800, when or if it is released, measures up favorable to devices like the Blackberry 900 for businesses, or even other winmo devices in its targeted enterprise market that you are focusing on. I am not confused. The mere fact that it is Q2 2008 and Palm has yet to release their high end enterprise device is indicitive of Palm's shifting focus to what is making them money. Just by way of an example, HTC released the Diamond today, and while it does not have a physical qwerty keyboard, the rumored Rafael does and will compete for the smae enterprise and prosfessional market segment that the T800w hopes for. And there are dozens of other phones comming as well like the SE Xperia that have all the features and more than the offering by Palm including winmo 6.1. The 800 is already looking long in the tooth compared to what is headed for Palm's enterprise market. especially from a design perspective, and it has not even been released yet.
    VisorPhone Clone
    (Please do not thank me - I find it scary)
  15. #15  
    I think the Centro was introduced to get some quick cash for Palm while they develop their new devices. Apparently it worked, because I remembering reading somewhere a while back that they sold a bunch of Centros, more than expected.

    As for their new devices, The 800w is supposed to launch July 22. And yes, the phone may not have a sleek touch screen, but the Treo form factor has been loved by many businesses users, because of both the size and the keyboard style, which made it a breeze to type on. Blackberries are similar, but their keyboard design makes it not as comfortable typing on.

    You mention other phones have more features than the 800w. What features do they have that the 800w doesn't? And, by the way, where did you get your 800w, because as far as I know, the features haven't really been published yet.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm not a Palm fanboi. I loved my 650 and 700p, but I'm bored with it now. I was waiting for the next POS version to come out, but the Centro and 755 are nothing special. I'm waiting for the Linux version, and if that doesn't come soon, I may jump to the Blackberry Curve (which should be launching on Sprint tomorrow ). I'm just going to sit and wait.

    I agree that Palm is dragging their feet getting a new phone to market, but the wait will hopefully be worth it. They're working on things, but they keep it under wraps, not like other companies that allow products to get leaked.
  16. #16  
    Basically Palm has 2 groups though (which is their own fault). They had simultaneous Palm OS and WM phones for the 700wx, 750v, 755p, Centro, etc.

    So you have a group of people waiting for a WM phone and another group wanting to try this long, long, long promised new Palm OS (and of course those that go back and forth between those two groups).

    The major benefit to the Palm OS was that it did not have to necessarily compete with other device manufacturers. Guess what, WM phones do. Even worse, they have to compete with the likes of HTC.

    Not trying to take anything away from the 800w and I'm sure it will do pretty well. But if it has to compete against HTC diamond/raphael/etc that's a lot different than a 700p/755p/Centro that has no direct competitor short of switching to an entirely different OS and phone that functions entirely different.

    What's worse? If you have a large gap in non-WM releases, people will try other phones. Now you don't have a dedicated Palm OS crowd and they have tried other devices and have new expectations.
  17. #17  
    Palm will probably put the phone function on their Foleo and market that as the New Palm OS Nova and throw in a carrying case. Watch out Mac AirBook, the Foleo is coming! sorry all just venting.
  18. #18  
    Lets not forget, so far the 800 is rumor and innuendo. We don't even know what features will make the final cut, or when that final cut will be.
  19. #19  
    I will have my 900p.

    Of course, I might have to give up my 800w for it.
  20. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by papped View Post
    Basically Palm has 2 groups though (which is their own fault).The major benefit to the Palm OS was that it did not have to necessarily compete with other device manufacturers. Guess what, WM phones do. Even worse, they have to compete with the likes of HTC.
    Actually, there was a time when there was plenty of competition between PalmOS devices. The market was flooded with offerings from Palm, Handspring, Sony, and Samsung. Unfortunately, Palm bought Handspring, and Sony and Samsung both got out of the PalmOS which point innovation completely ceased. Nothing significant has happened to PalmOS (or the devices they run on) since they lost their competition.

    Competition is a good thing, it's a great incentive for innovation and pushing technology forward. Without it technology stagnates (as Palm has).
    Visor Edge + VisorPhone -> Samsung i300 -> Treo 300 -> Treo 600 -> Treo 700p -> Treo 755
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