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  1.    #1  

    Programmer and while I've held off, I'm now thinking of going the smartphone route instead of, as I do now, carrying a Motorola e815 and a Dell axim x50v.

    I'm on Verizon. My choice is between the Treo 700p and 700w. While my axim implies Windows Mobile 2003 SE (never upgraded to WM 5 or whatever), wouldn't mind at all going back to Palm. There isn't anything currently on my Axim that couldn't be replaced by an equivalent within the Palm software world. And there were a couple of Palm OS apps for which I never found equivalents (e.g. a Chinese<->Eng dictionary at In addition, I've always found Windows Mobile clunky and resource intensive, and my memory of the Palm OS was that it had a lighter and quicker footprint.

    My comparison so far.

    Screens: the 700p does 320X320 while the 700w does 240X240. 240X240 sounds awfully cramped esp. when I compare it to the 640X480 that I currently have on my Axim x50v. But is even 320X320 that great? (I can and will go to a local VZW retail store and take an actual look).

    Memory: the 700w advertises 128 MB of which 60 MB user accessible with all 128 non-volatile. What exactly does this mean? The x50v has 64MB of volatile and a further 128 of non-volatile where (in the latter) one can store all one's applications - and which is very handy. This 128 of non-volatile in the Axim is what's referred to as 'Built-in'. I'm not sure how to compare the two configurations.

    As for the 700p it says the same as the 700w: 128 MB of which 60MB user accessible - all non-volatile. That sounds generally good since I remember both the Palm OS and apps as requiring _much_ less memory than is the case in the Pocket PC world. (did Palm ever fix the NVFS problems with the doubling-up [I believe] of byte requirements?)

    Wireless: they both do EV-DO which sounds good. But then I've never really tried it - how good is it? 802.11b on my Axim was a complete no-go. Way too slow.

    Price: to simply replace my x50v (which I'm considering doing now because, like a moron, I never properly protected the screen [as I'd always done with other devices] and it's pretty scratched up) would be $437. Dell is offering huge discounts on the x51v's and one suspects that Dell is end-of-life'ing its standalone PDAs (i.e. ones without phones). So that also means that all of the Axims will be gone once current stock is gone (at some point).

    The 700w or p will be, effectively, $562. I won't be buying under contract (currently in a contract) which prices them at both at 619.99. However there's apparently a $100 mail-in rebate. Subtract that and 8.25% CA tax, and I get $562.

    So a $125 difference. But in the latter case I'm getting a new phone-PDA and in the former simply replacing my PDA.

    Will leave it here (too long already) and am curious to see what people might have to say.
  2. #2  
    If you are going for a 700W, chose a WX. It has 32MB more SDRAM than the W, which makes for a much more stable responsive device.

  3. #3  
    It's expensive, but you might want to check out Samsung's new IP-830W. It has a 240x320 (or is it 320x240?) screen.
  4. #4  
    If you have to stick with Verizon, then get the 700p or look and see if they stil have the Samsung SCH-i730 (basically the same as the 830 but it has wifi instead of GSM roaming). I wouldn't consider the 700w (especially if you are a seasoned WM user) because the lack of RAM will probably get to you after a while and you'll probably end up switching phones anyways.
  5.    #5  

    The WX was made specifically for Sprint and again I'm on Verizon, where what's available is only the W. And yes you're right Trevante - if the total memory availble (for Windows mobile) is only 60 MB, that'd be bad. My Axim has 64 (60 useable) in RAM and another 128 in 'Built-In' where you store all your applications. So in effect, you have something like 188 MB. That's generally been plenty, but I wouldn't (for Windows Mobile) want substantially less than this.

    If 'memory' serves, from the Palm OS, I can install all my apps on the SD card, and then 60MB of running run is quite a lot for Palm apps.

    Well come to think of it, I could install all my Windows Mobile apps (with certain exceptions perhaps) on the SD card as well. Still WM needs more space than Palm OS apps.

    Verizon doesn't seem to have IP-830W (Samsung). I found it on; and it does say there that it's on Verizon, but whether it's my location (SF E Bay) or whatever, I don't have access to it.

    As Trevante says though, I do have access to the SCH-i730 (which I assume to be the previous generation or iteration on whatever on the 830). Its rating on phonescoop (for whatever that's worth) is surprisingly low - 3.34. While the Treo 700p gets 4.07 (these are both out of 5).

    I'll have to look in more detail as to what exactly the objections are to the i730. Oh yes, I did read the phonescoop reviews quickly last night. And one thing I heard over-and-over was lots of soft resets. Software lockups, etc.

    Back to Price. Verizon's unlimited data (for a smartphone) is 44.95. Add 10-15 for my current voice, and you get 55-60/mth.

    I read about Sprint data in the forums. People were claiming (back in 2005) something like $20 (!). That was something called Sprint Vision. I drilled down here on treocentral to select a phone and plan. The phone was the Treo 600p. There were two basic kinds of plans: 'Fair and Flexible' and 'Free Incoming'. The least expensive of these was going to be something like $80/mth. I called Sprint to verify this.

    And asked: "isn't there still something less expensive called a 'Vision' plan". The woman said yes, but didn't seem to know a lot about them. We eventually drilled down to here on Sprint's web site:

    She said if I looked under here, I should be able to find something for well less than $60/mth.

    But where ...

  6. #6  
    Hmmm... I'm not following you on the Sprint data plan issue, but basically, Sprint has 4 data plans for phones.

    The first one is the basic $15 PowerVision plan. It includes unlimited data usage on the handset

    The second one is the $20 PowerVision that includes Picturemail (MMS) and unlimited data usage, plus SprintTV Plus.

    The third one is the $25 PowerVision plan that includes Picturemail and Sprint TV Ultimate, and unlimited data usage on the handset.

    The last one is the $40 Phone-As-Modem plan. I believe it includes Picturemail, some sort of Sprint TV package (don't remember which one), and unlimited data usage on the handset and unlimited data usage with the phone as a modem.

    If you switch to Sprint and get the 700wx, your only appropriate choices are the basic $15 plan or the $40 PAM plan. The 700wx doesn't support Picturemail or SprintTV, so you shouldn't pay extra for those services. If you want to use your 700wx as a modem, then you should get the $40 PAM plan.

    As for the RAM issue, the 700w has 32MB of program memory, with about 13MB available to be used. However, WM5 is meant to run on with 64MB of program memory. The 700wx has 64MB of program memory, with like 47 MB available to be used, allowing for a much better experience to the end user than the 700w. Basically, if you intend on making good use of your phone, don't get the 700w, because the lack of RAM will become frustrating.

    If you must stick with Verizon, I'd recommend getting the Treo 700p. It'd would be the most reasonable option IMO. If you need to have Windows Mobile, then the 6700 would be next in line. Otherwise, I'd recommend switching to Sprint and getting the Treo 700wx.
  7. #7  
    For the OP, PlecoDict became available in WM sometime earlier this year. I have the PalmOS version, but I wish there was a discount to purchase the product in other OS flavors.
  8.    #8  
    Hello Trevante,

    It would seem to indicate both here
    and here

    that both the W and WV have 60MB of user-accessible RAM (non-volatile).

    This is at odds with what you say, but I imagine you're correct. Would just like to confirm that somewhere on an 'official' web page.

    And yes 32MB would be awful for WM.

    Schwartz: yes, I really like PlecoDict but I simply can't see paying $99 or whatever it is to transition the whole dictionary to WM (which is to say that I already have a Palm license).

    Besides I also own a Canon Wordtank v70 (Eng<->Chinese<->Japanese) which is great - except that it's one more gadget that one has to carry.

  9.    #9  
    OK - this one

    says ~25MB available on the 700w.

    Same difference. Way too little.
  10. #10  
    You will never get official confirmation. Palm has been hiding the ram issue, and hiding fixing it in the wx for some time now.

  11.    #11  
    Hi Surur,

    Well the W has 32MB with either 25 or 13 (?) actually available.

    But you're talking about the WX which, according to Trevante, has 64MB installed with something like 47MB available.

    Which still seems pretty poor. My (non-smartphone) Axim x50v has 64MB main memory with 61.7 useable. I wouldn't want much less than that.

  12. #12  
    Do you really use up 62MB of program memory on a daily basis? I think you should go to a Sprint store and play with a 700wx. IMO, it has enough RAM for most people's needs, I don't know what one could do on a PDA to use up even 40 MB of program memory. And keep in mind the 700wx has to control a cell phone radio, which may account for less memory being available. If you really need 62MB of program memory, then you probably won't find it in any currently available WM5 smartphone in the US.

    And the Palm website doesn't show the differences between the W and WX because they don't want people to know that the W is inferior to the WX. It would make them look bad....
  13. #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by patfla View Post

    Which still seems pretty poor. My (non-smartphone) Axim x50v has 64MB main memory with 61.7 useable. I wouldn't want much less than that.

    As Trevante said, the phone software, which has to run constantly, uses up some memory, and also your Axim has no camera or 3G networking, both of which require buffers several megabytes big, which comes out of your available program memory.

    In short, they are not directly comparable.


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