1.  08/08/2006, 11:58 PM Originally Posted by DHart These are perfect examples of stretching iffy information beyond the snapping point. Just how can you be so ****-sure that these numbers are accurate? You make statements based on what you claim are rock solid facts. It is preposterous to state that your county has 0.000089% coverage for WiFi. Sure its not 0.000090%? Are you positive the census for your county is right? And how do you know how many access points there really are? Is it possible that all of your rock solid facts have foundations that are sinking in mud because the statistics you are using are based on guesses or surveys that are doubtful to begin with? I am not cocksure it is 0.00089%....my knowldge of statistics / standard deviations, etc would allow for rounding and other errors of up to 5%.....but lets say 100%......as far as the census....errr....geography doesn't include census numbers. Let's say the reporting of wifi spots is off by a factor of 2....but let's say it's off by a factor of 100. So let's take 0.0089 and multiply it by 100 and then multiple that answer by 100.....if the numbers are off by a factor of 10,000 to 1, then we have geagraphic coverage of almost 1 %.....whoo hoo.....I have a 0.9 chance in 100 of being in a WiFi spot if the numbers are off by 10,000 to 1 ! Jack, people skew numbers every day to fit their purposes. If you talk to WiFi promoting organizations, WiFi is taking over the world very rapidly. How do you skew geography ? The number of square miles within an area is fixed....albeit for some adjustments between high and low tide. As far as the number of hot spots, let look at motivation for skewing numbers......will a dude have more hits at his site if he shows 30 spots or 300 spots....I gotta go with 300....so if there's any "skewing" going on, it's gonna be in a direction that is contrary to your argument. Just because you don't see the need doesn't mean there aren't many many others who DO see the need. If Palm releases a phone with integrated WiFi - no cards, no sleds - I predict it will be a big seller. What I see has never been part of my postulation. I said that: 1. Within my professional organization (47,000 members) I could find no business leader in 12 states who has gone with mobile WiFi. 2. I said only 1 in 20 complain when a phone doesn't have WiFi in CNet 3. I said geographical coverage in US of A is miniscule 4. I said that people who are buying Treos still in record numbers do not seem to be worried about lack of WiFi. Now as item 3 above changes...and it is changing rapidly....more and more people will want WiFi. Right now the demand for WiFi is like the demand for snow tires....people know they want to get them and they will find a use for them....eventually....but it is in the future so they ain't gonna worry about it right at this moment. I don't know just how pervasive WiFi i in Europe but I gotta think that reviewers will tend to poo poo Lennon if it come sout without WiFi in Europe.....I see it knocking sales down maybe 10 - 35 % but again that's pure conjecture w/o knowing the Euro market better. In the US of A.....and a release pre-Xmas....I don't see it knocking down sales more than 5- 10%. Then again, Lennon US gotta have something new......so if it ain't got HSDPA, then it better damn well have WiFi or the customer's thinking of upgrades will be saying WhyWhy ? The problem for Palm is, I have seen a 2nd report that Cingular halted the HSDPA rollout while it "gets its house in order". Coming out w/ an HSDPA phone when there's too little HSDPA infrastructure again leaves the "WhyWhy" question.....maybe that's the reason behind the rumored "testing delays".
2.  08/09/2006, 03:32 AM Originally Posted by surur Jack, are you contending that Palm is not losing ANY sales due to not having WIFI? You realize most Treo's are sold to PalmOS PDA users. They are not buying the Treo because its perfect, but because it is the only converged POS device available. When the WIFI-less Treo is tried on Palm-naive populations, such as Europe and Asia, it does not do very well at all. Maybe if it had more features it would. Surur Very good point Surur. I also think that the main attraction of the Treo today is that it runs PalmOS. That is why I can't understand why Palm still has not released a PalmOS 6 (Cobalt) device so many years after PalmSource released it. I mean, so many palm users tried the Cobalt virtual machine to test out the new OS and it seemed like a very good and well functioning upgrade from PalmOS 5. It has been speculated that the main reason Palm never upgraded to Cobalt is because PalmSource asked to high a price for Cobalt which made it incompatible with Palm's business strategy of releasing relatively low cost handhelds. Others have speculated that, as it was a completely new OS, there were no hardware driver and thus Palm would have been forced to write those themselves. In any event, to me it makes no sens to have had so many years go by without an upgrade of the OS software. Upgrading to Cobalt would have given Palm users many advantages like multi-tasking and wifi+phone support. Now 4 years down the road Palm is still very unsure of what they want to do OS-wise according to their last financial statement. There is even speculation of Palm wanting to write their own OS. This may carry some advantages, but not for Palm users in the 1-2 year timeframe. And it certainly can not be cheaper or easier than having to license Cobalt and write hardware drivers.
3.  08/09/2006, 04:13 AM Originally Posted by JackNaylorPE 4. I said that people who are buying Treos still in record numbers do not seem to be worried about lack of WiFi. Jack, I have been using Treos for 5 years and recommend them to a bunch of people. But this is because it is the only converged PalmOS device with a great keyboard. The truth is I am hooked on a couple of fantastic Palm applications that make life a lot easier. Saying that Wifi doesn't really matter to Treo users is arguing from the angle. It is true that wifi does not cover the country as well as GSM and CDMA so you will not be able to use wifi 100% of the time. But still, I would say that the vast majority of Treo users do have access to wifi for a good part of their day although maybe not all the time. They may have a wifi router home, office or school. They may have access to wifi at the café where they go to pick up their coffee. In these places where wifi is already installed you can download large amounts of data for free. This free download of big chunks of data to me is the real reason you need Wifi on the Treo: it enables developers to create new types of applications. Only when the Treo has wifi can you offer services such as downloading music and videos to play on the Treo. Or complete company pricelists, large databases, map information. Not making the Treo wifi capable is impeding the development of a completely new class of palm applications and web 2.0 services for the Treo.
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