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  1. #101  
    Quote Originally Posted by ToolkiT
    ..... with me leaving and only leaving 1 active mod behind enjoy your 'freedom'...
    Toolkit, I am sorry to see you go. Hopefully you will still post as a citizen. Although we havent always agreed on everything and I think youre over the top sometimes, I enjoy your posts.

    Now to address what you have pointed out in your "resignation" as the obvious problem with TC and moderation. Only 1 active mod now??? Is anyone else thinking this is absolutely stupid? The idea that this community is allowed to run virtually unchecked is just silly. One cop cannot control a crowd of 25000+ fans at a hockey game. Why would anyone think there should only be 1 or 2 mods in this community.

    Someone needs to do some hiring.

    And I'll happily volunteer.
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
  2. #102  
    Quote Originally Posted by ToolkiT
    It does get personal if you get attacked for all actions you take, and even private messages get published as ammo to strengthen their point :/
    I agree that's pretty lame, but if that private message illustrates a contradiction, it is relevant and probably should be open knowledge. Debatable, I know.
    Basically I've had enough of having to defend myself for trying to keep up the rules.. personal or not, it is not worth it for me..
    I started the modding as a volunteer to help out the TC community, but it seems the community and I have grown appart. This started off as an informational site where people occasionally fool around a bit. Now it is the other way around and you get attacked for pointing that out.
    It does sound like you've had enough and need to leave. I was sincere...I appreciate your efforts to date and wish you well in whatever you do.
    Hey you keep claiming the mods are too strict.. with me leaving and only leaving 1 active mod behind enjoy your 'freedom'...
    I have NEVER claimed the mods are too strict. All I asked for was an explanation of an action. Nothing more. I still don't think that is unreasonable. In my mind that is not an attack. If you had a legitimate reason for your action, it should be a simple matter to state it. That doesn't mean your reason is open for debate, but it does make your action seem less arbitrary. I'm sorry that concept is so difficult to grasp. You obviously have had too many issues from too many users, but please don't project all your frustrations on me.
    "Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen."
    - Albert Einstein
  3. #103  
    Quote Originally Posted by Woof
    Someone needs to do some hiring.

    And I'll happily volunteer.
    Woof as moderator....now THAT sounds like a fun forum.

    Seriously, I think you and I would not be in the running as candidates....

    BTW, delete some private messages...I was unable to reply to you earlier.
    "Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen."
    - Albert Einstein
  4. #104  
    Quote Originally Posted by Woof
    Toolkit, I am sorry to see you go. Hopefully you will still post as a citizen. Although we havent always agreed on everything and I think youre over the top sometimes, I enjoy your posts.
    .
    I think you are sometimes over the top too , but do enjoy your input and it is good to see a well articulated oposite point of view at times.
    Like me you could work on your tact a bit..
    <IMG WIDTH="200" HEIGHT="50" SRC=http://www.visorcentral.com/images/visorcentral.gif> (ex)VisorCentral Discussion Moderator
    Do files get embarrassed when they get unzipped?
  5. #105  
    Quote Originally Posted by ExtraOrdinaryJo
    BTW, delete some private messages...I was unable to reply to you earlier.
    Done, thanks for the heads up..
    <IMG WIDTH="200" HEIGHT="50" SRC=http://www.visorcentral.com/images/visorcentral.gif> (ex)VisorCentral Discussion Moderator
    Do files get embarrassed when they get unzipped?
  6. #106  
    Quote Originally Posted by ToolkiT
    I think you are sometimes over the top too , but do enjoy your input and it is good to see a well articulated oposite point of view at times.
    Like me you could work on your tact a bit..

    See Jo I am perfect for moderator.

    Tool, I won't argue that one bit. I have never claimed to be perfect. I say what I think and my position is that "your" reaction to my comments is yours. I do not control how others feel. If someone chooses to be offended or hurt that's not my fault. The intent is never to illicit that kind of response. It's just my opinion, and although it may be unpopular at times it is my opion and I am entitled to it.

    Some people like that about me.
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
  7. #107  
    Quote Originally Posted by ExtraOrdinaryJo
    Woof as moderator....now THAT sounds like a fun forum.

    Seriously, I think you and I would not be in the running as candidates....

    BTW, delete some private messages...I was unable to reply to you earlier.

    messages deleted thanks.

    And actually it would be a wise move on the forum's part. I dont know who originaly said this, "Keep your friends close and your enemies closer".
    It fits I think.
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
  8. #108  
    Toolkit, sorry to see you go.

    I'm a mod over at PIC and I can appreciate all the crap that you have to go through on a regular basis. It's a thankless job and I appreciate and recall the long number of years you've been a mod here. I hope you reconsider you decision and if not, then I hope you still hang around here...
    _________________
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  9. #109  
    Quote Originally Posted by ExtraOrdinaryJo
    If you had a legitimate reason for your action, it should be a simple matter to state it. That doesn't mean your reason is open for debate, but it does make your action seem less arbitrary. I'm sorry that concept is so difficult to grasp.
    What's difficult to grasp is that anyone believes stating our reasons would not be subject to debate. It's gotten to the point where we can't even move threads to the proper forum without being questioned. It's the proverbial damned if we do, damned if we don't.
    .
    .....
    MarkEagle
    .....<a href="http://discussion.treocentral.com/tcforum/index.php?s=">TreoCentral</a> | <a href="http://discussion.visorcentral.com/vcforum/index.php?s=">VisorCentral</a> Forum Moderator - Forum Guidelines
    .....Sprint PCS Treo 650
    .....God bless America, my home sweet home...
  10. #110  
    Quote Originally Posted by MarkEagle
    What's difficult to grasp is that anyone believes stating our reasons would not be subject to debate. It's gotten to the point where we can't even move threads to the proper forum without being questioned. It's the proverbial damned if we do, damned if we don't.
    Maybe so but at least it would be a debate over something specific instead of the usual 'overactive mods' debate. One has to remember that it is human nature to ask why. You cant avoid that. Providing some explanation will certainly minimize much of that.

    To use the much mentioned pet thread as an example again. After your warning there was no flame war, the posts were on topic except for insertions quip (which is usual and expected) and yet it was closed. No reason given. Anyone with an iota of intelligence would wonder and even ask why. To the casual observer it looked like a warning had been issued and things were going fine. Now if ttrundle had come along with another pitbull comment after your warning, Toolkits action would need no explanation, but that wasnt the case.

    I think what EOJo is looking for when he says reasons is for situations where it isnt perfectly clear. No one is saying justify your every action.

    IMO that thread should have gone like this.
    ronbo2000 warns to stay civil.
    ttrundle continues his trolling
    ttrundle gets a personal warning in the thread.
    ttrundle continues and starts a pissing match w/dutch.
    dutch asks him to leave.
    trundle continues
    mod takes action against ttrundle
    thread continues in the original topic of pet appreciation.

    None of this other crap would be happening now. TC would still need more mods, but this recent business wouldnt have transpired.

    That's how I would have handled it.
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
  11. #111  
    Quote Originally Posted by ExtraOrdinaryJo
    All I asked for was an explanation of an action.
    I guess if this does not qualify as an explanation...
    Quote Originally Posted by ToolkiT
    I think Mark was clear enough... case closed..
    Quote Originally Posted by ExtraOrdinaryJo
    That doesn't mean your reason is open for debate
    ...then this isn't really a debate?
    .
    .....
    MarkEagle
    .....<a href="http://discussion.treocentral.com/tcforum/index.php?s=">TreoCentral</a> | <a href="http://discussion.visorcentral.com/vcforum/index.php?s=">VisorCentral</a> Forum Moderator - Forum Guidelines
    .....Sprint PCS Treo 650
    .....God bless America, my home sweet home...
  12. #112  
    My hat is off to the Mods. Everyone agrees that its a tough and thankless job. I agree that we are always going to ask why something is closed but I also agree if the Mods give a one line answer why, then it should just be accepted.

    If we don't like it, then we can go elsewhere. That has always been the case.
  13. #113  
    Quote Originally Posted by MarkEagle
    I guess if this does not qualify as an explanation...

    ...then this isn't really a debate?
    OK I concede this is pointless. If you think this is an explanation, we are wasting our time in this discussion.
    What tool is saying as I read it is "because we said so". Fact is there is no explanation and no one wants to admit that thread was closed for no reason.

    Nothing happened after Marks warning that would warrant closure. If something did, I'd like the details posted right here.

    Your statement that doesnt this qualify? goes right back to the whole we're mods and we said so pov.
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
  14. #114  
    Quote Originally Posted by t2gungho
    My hat is off to the Mods. Everyone agrees that its a tough and thankless job. I agree that we are always going to ask why something is closed but I also agree if the Mods give a one line answer why, then it should just be accepted.

    If we don't like it, then we can go elsewhere. That has always been the case.
    Would you please show this answer, so we can all have your level of understanding.
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
  15. #115  
    Quote Originally Posted by Woof
    If you think this is an explanation, we are wasting our time in this discussion.
    What tool is saying as I read it is "because we said so". Fact is there is no explanation and no one wants to admit that thread was closed for no reason.
    And because YOU think (yes, you are entitled to your opinion) that there was no explanation means there wasn't one? In MY opinion (which I am just as entitled to as you, am I not?), he DID state a reason.

    Your statement that doesnt this qualify? goes right back to the whole we're mods and we said so pov.
    Since you're adamant about people being able to have their own "opinions", I guess we have to agree to disagree on this...
    .
    .....
    MarkEagle
    .....<a href="http://discussion.treocentral.com/tcforum/index.php?s=">TreoCentral</a> | <a href="http://discussion.visorcentral.com/vcforum/index.php?s=">VisorCentral</a> Forum Moderator - Forum Guidelines
    .....Sprint PCS Treo 650
    .....God bless America, my home sweet home...
  16. #116  
    Quote Originally Posted by MarkEagle
    And because YOU think (yes, you are entitled to your opinion) that there was no explanation means there wasn't one? In MY opinion (which I am just as entitled to as you, am I not?), he DID state a reason.
    This gets tiresome Mark. We're not talking about an opinion, we're talking about plain and concise explanation of a persons actions. His reason was stated yes, but it has no substance or relevance to the posts made after your warning. Why is that so hard for you to see?

    You veiwpoint that YOU understood the reason (even though no one else seems to) is again right back to "I get it and that should be good enough for all you non moderators".

    Since you're adamant about people being able to have their own "opinions", I guess we have to agree to disagree on this...
    This statement is very disturbing. It clearly implies that YOU don't think that people should be able to have an opinion. Which again goes back to your continuous position of "we said so, so thats the way it is".

    The worst part is you wont seem to take your mod hat off long enough to look at it from the perspective of the casual poster and see if you can understand the reasoning for the closure. So for no one but you seems to understand it. Doesn't that seems odd?
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
  17. #117  
    oh my god people, LET IT GO! Go outside, walk your dog, say hello to a neighbor.....do something else!!!!!!!!!!!
  18. #118  
    Quote Originally Posted by ttrundle
    oh my god people, LET IT GO! Go outside, walk your dog, say hello to a neighbor.....do something else!!!!!!!!!!!
    Do you mind? We're having a discussion here.
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
  19. #119  
    Quote Originally Posted by MarkEagle
    And because YOU think (yes, you are entitled to your opinion) that there was no explanation means there wasn't one? In MY opinion (which I am just as entitled to as you, am I not?), he DID state a reason.

    Since you're adamant about people being able to have their own "opinions", I guess we have to agree to disagree on this...
    I agree with Woof. You continue to avoid answering the question. I saw it as "because we said so" and you feel obliged to backup another mod. Because you refuse to be reasonable and actually address people's points, this discussion is indeed pointless.

    That thread was closed for no good reason. If I am wrong clearly state what that reason was, other than one mod being frustrated with his job as moderator.

    As previously stated, this whole fiasco was easily avoidable, but your lack of willingness to actually discuss it means it will inevitably be repeated. I guess that's your choice since this is your world and we are merely guests.
    Last edited by ExtraOrdinaryJo; 06/15/2005 at 01:16 PM.
    "Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen."
    - Albert Einstein
  20. #120  
    Quote Originally Posted by ExtraOrdinaryJo
    I guess that's your choice since this is your world and we are merely guests.

    Now you get it
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