1.  03/17/2005, 11:17 PM Originally Posted by JackNaylorPE In finance, we assume the default scenario and immediately assume it's a tax, earnings or interest thing and so the rules for a "financial calculator " will "assume that you mean a particular number plus 5 % of the same original number. 50 + 5% is simply a shortcut for 50 + 5% of 50. Use the options menu on the Treo and set it to "financial" and 50 + 5 % gets you the 50.25 answer you financial types were expecting. This whole discussion is therefore attributabe to "user error". You wanna do real math, select the "math" option under the advanced selection. You wanna do financial calcs, select the financial option under the advanced selection. You wanna do 4th grade math, select the Basic option. UMM...... BULLS**T!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 5% of 50 happens to be 2.5 which would mean the answer to 50+5% of 50 would be 52.5 rather it be "true" "basic" "financial" "advanced" or blah blah blah....EVEN a FOURTH grader knows that. Last edited by sxtg; 03/17/2005 at 11:26 PM.
2.  03/17/2005, 11:19 PM hi...that site is poorly designed.
4.  03/18/2005, 12:49 AM ...and once again I say... OFF WITH THEIR HEADS!!!!
5.  03/18/2005, 02:17 AM Ok then explain why, when in "financial" mode, I still get the wrong answer- 50.25
6.  03/18/2005, 06:03 AM Jimmy likes Elaine. Jimmy's down! Jimmy's hurt! (If you're confused, you didn't watch enough Seinfedl) Atlas Just Shrugged!
7.  03/18/2005, 06:51 AM IMHO this was a ruse to get traffic on his site, and it worked....
8.  03/18/2005, 07:03 AM Originally Posted by Bridges hi...that site is poorly designed. ELR >> Drop by! << Avatar courtesy of ButtUglyJeff!
9.  03/18/2005, 07:11 AM No ruse... Don't need one, I've been very straight forward about what I'm doing and will continue to be. It was a logical marketing conclusion though...
10.  03/18/2005, 07:12 AM Originally Posted by Burkhardi IMHO this was a ruse to get traffic on his site, and it worked.... hmmmmmmm...that would be kinda slimey... ELR >> Drop by! << Avatar courtesy of ButtUglyJeff!
11.  03/18/2005, 07:13 AM Originally Posted by questionformods No ruse... Don't need one, I've been very straight forward about what I'm doing and will continue to be. It was a logical marketing conclusion though... so can we delete the thread or move it? ELR >> Drop by! << Avatar courtesy of ButtUglyJeff!
12.  03/18/2005, 08:28 AM Originally Posted by Otter Emperor so can we delete the thread or move it? Otter, you're at it again?
13.  03/18/2005, 08:37 AM Originally Posted by sxtg UMM...... BULLS**T!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 5% of 50 happens to be 2.5 which would mean the answer to 50+5% of 50 would be 52.5 rather it be "true" "basic" "financial" "advanced" or blah blah blah....EVEN a FOURTH grader knows that. Only a complete wacko would use the notation 50 + 5% if they were looking for 50 + (5% of 50). If I was forced to evaluate it, I would take it as 50 + 5/100ths. I agree with Jack - and also agree that the % key on a calculator is for newbs
14.  03/18/2005, 08:52 AM Originally Posted by geatches Otter, you're at it again? Nope. Not me. No siree Bob... It was my evil twin, Skippy.... ELR >> Drop by! << Avatar courtesy of ButtUglyJeff!
15.  03/18/2005, 09:26 AM I found a picture of Tundy from his profile which might help to explain why he's so unhappy with the Treo 650.... Tundy 1. HTC Touch Dual Neon 300, Stock Rom 2. AT&T Tilt (Refurb) with DK.8 Rom (collecting dust)
16.  03/18/2005, 11:28 AM MVT, Now that was funny
17.  03/18/2005, 11:56 AM Originally Posted by Joebar Only a complete wacko would use the notation 50 + 5% if they were looking for 50 + (5% of 50). If I was forced to evaluate it, I would take it as 50 + 5/100ths. I agree with Jack - and also agree that the % key on a calculator is for newbs Can't we just settle on 50*105% ? That'll work whichever way you slice it. Palm Pilot Personal -> Palm III -> Palm IIIx -> Visor Prism -> Clie TJ37 -> Treo 650 -> GSM Centro
18.  03/18/2005, 01:29 PM 50 + 5% is not mathematical notation. Show me any real math book that talks about percentages that way. "5% of what" is a VERY relevant question. I am an engineer and I NEVER use the % key on a calculator because to me it's undefined; every calculator may do it slightly differently and as long as there is a consistent way it does it that is explainable, it cannot be called "worng".
19.  03/18/2005, 02:54 PM Originally Posted by silverado 50 + 5% is not mathematical notation. Show me any real math book that talks about percentages that way. "5% of what" is a VERY relevant question. Yes, it's true, "50 + 5%" is not matematical notation. "5 'M+'" is not mathematical notation either, but it means something specific on a calculator nevertheless. The % key on every calculator I've ever used in the last 25 years has been programmed so that when you enter "X + Y % =" it returns "X + (X * Y/100))" This is the first time I've ever seen the % key, in conjuction with a + operation, just divide the current operand by 100. I don't even see how that would be a desirable feature, because face it, if you need a special key just to divide a base 10 number by 100, then maybe you should put down the calculator before you drool all over it. I NEVER use the % key on a calculator because to me it's undefined; every calculator may do it slightly differently and as long as there is a consistent way it does it that is explainable, it cannot be called "worng". Suppose the O key on a keyboard would consistiently output "R" and the R key consistently output "O" (like your keyboard, apparently ). Despite it's consistency, I think one could say that would be wrong. Unlocked GSM Palm 650.
20.  03/18/2005, 04:32 PM Originally Posted by busyba Suppose the O key on a keyboard would consistiently output "R" and the R key consistently output "O" (like your keyboard, apparently ). Despite it's consistency, I think one could say that would be wrong. Sure But there is a small difference here. O and R are well-defined concepts with no disagreement on what they mean, my argument was that there is really no convention on the % key on a keyboard. To test your claim of the consistency of what % does on calculators, I tried the 3 calculators to which I currently have access: the one on my Windows XP machine, RPN (palm) and Calc (Treo). They each did a different thing. Windows' calculator did what you suggested, RPN could only do "X enter Y %" and resulted in X * (Y/100), and the Treo calc did what we all know. So I would say that "all" calculators with which I tried the % key in the last 20 years interpreted it inconsistently PS: Find the defect in my above argument. Last edited by silverado; 03/18/2005 at 04:38 PM.
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