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  1. #21  
    It's unreasonable to expect us to behave as anything other than human, we aren't machines incapable of emotion.
    "The danger from computers is not that they will eventually get as smart as men, but that we will agree to meet them halfway." -Bernard Avishai
    "Computers are a lot like air conditioners - they both work great until you open windows." -Anonymous

  2. #22  
    Emotion, fine. Attacks, insults, vulgarity, not.
  3. #23  
    How long are we talking about for the first, temporary suspension?

    Day? Week? Month?
  4.    #24  
    Well if there are to be suspensions, the rules better be laid out in clear black and white. They also had better be enforced EXACTLY the same by everyone or what is the point. If the definition of transgression of the rules is left to the moderators opinion it is no different than it is today. It would also seem to be better advised to disallow moderators from particpating in discussion if they are instead going to be enforcers. It is hard for someone to remain objective if they are involved in a topic that has a transgressor in it, especially if they disagree with that persons opinion.

    I personally am looking forward to the new more detailed rules of conduct. It will also be nice to see if everyone will be held to the same standard.

    I think it would just be easier to make the Off Topic area for more mature audiences. Of course it would also help if lots of folks would just lighten up and not assume every disagreeing statement is an attack.
  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by Woof

    <snip>

    ...Of course it would also help if lots of folks would just lighten up and not assume every disagreeing statement is an attack.
    I couldn't agree more with that statement. In general I feel as though a lot of people go through life like there's a potato chip wedged up their rear and they're trying hard not to break it. Everyone needs to loosen up and have a jolly good time.
    .
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by Woof
    Well if there are to be suspensions, the rules better be laid out in clear black and white. They also had better be enforced EXACTLY the same by everyone or what is the point. If the definition of transgression of the rules is left to the moderators opinion it is no different than it is today. It would also seem to be better advised to disallow moderators from particpating in discussion if they are instead going to be enforcers. It is hard for someone to remain objective if they are involved in a topic that has a transgressor in it, especially if they disagree with that persons opinion.

    I personally am looking forward to the new more detailed rules of conduct. It will also be nice to see if everyone will be held to the same standard.

    I think it would just be easier to make the Off Topic area for more mature audiences. Of course it would also help if lots of folks would just lighten up and not assume every disagreeing statement is an attack.
    Sounds like you think you run this joint.
  7. #27  
    ...I never understood how a joint could be run
    .
  8. #28  
    The suspensions will be (most likely) 2 weeks. And yes, they are left to the moderators' discretion.
  9.    #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by ttrundle
    Sounds like you think you run this joint.
    Let me explain it to you ok.

    It's called rules. Clearly defined rules.

    Lets say were playing hockey and the rules are kinda general and the refs can decide what they want to do to you based on their discretion. There arent set rules and set disciplinary actions. With me so far? Ok so one time you check a guy and the ref takes your stick and cracks you across the nose with it. Later in the game the same thing happens but this time you get sent to the penalty box for a couple of minutes by a different ref. It's up to their discretion after all. Now another player does the same thing and gets the penalty box the first time by the first ref. The rules are different depending on the ref and the time of day. Would you want to play?

    Point is you dont you dont really have any idea if you are going to get an appropriate defined punishment or a discretionary one that is coming from someone that is in a bad mood or just doesnt like your opinion on something.

    If that is the case would you play?


    I've said it before and I'll say it again. It would be nice if we could set aside the political correctness long enough to have an adult discussion. The idea that the OT section (and thats what we are really talking about here) has to be such a feel good carnival where we have to worry about someone being offended by something they read that is not even directed at them is just sick. I am not talking all out flame wars by any means, but it would be nice to be able to voice an opinion without everyone crying that they are being attacked. Anyone could be offended by ANYTHING written on this board. Is someone going to be banned because someone else is offended by "the treo sucks and everyone who buys it is stupid"?

    I looked forward to reading the new TOS thats states sarcasm and a sense of humor are no longer allowed.
  10. #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by Woof
    Is someone going to be banned because someone else is offended by "the treo sucks and everyone who buys it is stupid"?
    Yes.
  11.    #31  
    are you serious?
  12. #32  
    Yes. You can say the treo stinks, but you cannot insult people, especially people on this board (obviously many of us own treos).
  13.    #33  
    Ok so lets try a few things. It sure is looking like opinion is going to be seriously curtailed here in the future.

    Let's say some one says "only a moron would drive a Hummer H2, they are so obviously bad for the environment". Now if I own an H2 I might be offended. Are you going to ban someone for that?

    How about " I've gone out with a lots of redheads and they were all pretty slutty". Now since that is a statement of experience not opinion, will that result in moderator action? I am sure there are redheads on this board.
  14. #34  
    "No insults. Explicit or implied. Use common sense or go elsewhere." How's that for a TOS?

    Woof, we're all adults here. You know as well as I when someone is insulting someone else. If you do it, you get banned. If I do it, I get banned. No need to discuss this further. Thanks.
  15. #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by Woof
    Let me explain it to you ok.

    It's called rules. Clearly defined rules.

    Lets say were playing hockey and the rules are kinda general and the refs can decide what they want to do to you based on their discretion. There arent set rules and set disciplinary actions. With me so far? Ok so one time you check a guy and the ref takes your stick and cracks you across the nose with it. Later in the game the same thing happens but this time you get sent to the penalty box for a couple of minutes by a different ref. It's up to their discretion after all. Now another player does the same thing and gets the penalty box the first time by the first ref. The rules are different depending on the ref and the time of day. Would you want to play?

    Point is you dont you dont really have any idea if you are going to get an appropriate defined punishment or a discretionary one that is coming from someone that is in a bad mood or just doesnt like your opinion on something.

    If that is the case would you play?


    I've said it before and I'll say it again. It would be nice if we could set aside the political correctness long enough to have an adult discussion. The idea that the OT section (and thats what we are really talking about here) has to be such a feel good carnival where we have to worry about someone being offended by something they read that is not even directed at them is just sick. I am not talking all out flame wars by any means, but it would be nice to be able to voice an opinion without everyone crying that they are being attacked. Anyone could be offended by ANYTHING written on this board. Is someone going to be banned because someone else is offended by "the treo sucks and everyone who buys it is stupid"?

    I looked forward to reading the new TOS thats states sarcasm and a sense of humor are no longer allowed.
    wow, obviously someone has too much time on their hands. If you want to make the rules start your own forum, otherwise be glad you can still participate in this one.
  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by KRamsauer
    "No insults. Explicit or implied. Use common sense or go elsewhere." How's that for a TOS?

    Woof, we're all adults here. You know as well as I when someone is insulting someone else. If you do it, you get banned. If I do it, I get banned. No need to discuss this further. Thanks.
    So true. I find it sometimes hard to take that some folks here have no problem out-and-out trashing others on this forum. It's one thing to disagree and quite another to attack and act juvienille and incite verbal battles.

    It is what it is and if folks don't like it and can't live by the rules -- move on.
    "Everyday is a Gift, A Blessing, An Opportunity!" - GM

    Phone history: Treo 600, Treo 650, Treo Centro, Pixi, Centro again, 800w, Treo 755p, Palm Pre
  17.    #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by ttrundle
    wow, obviously someone has too much time on their hands. If you want to make the rules start your own forum, otherwise be glad you can still participate in this one.
    Hmm, I could find this insulting. I wonder if I can get you banned.

    Instead of making potentially insulting remarks about how I use my time, why dont you respond to what I said?

    I never said I wanted to make the rules, I wanted clarification.
  18. #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by KRamsauer
    "No insults. Explicit or implied. Use common sense or go elsewhere." How's that for a TOS?
    Couldn't have said it better myself!

    Anyone that's been around here for even a short period of time knows quite well that there's little or no tolerance for personal attacks of any kind. How much clearer does it need to be? How many times must we visit this topic?
    .
    .....
    MarkEagle
    .....<a href="http://discussion.treocentral.com/tcforum/index.php?s=">TreoCentral</a> | <a href="http://discussion.visorcentral.com/vcforum/index.php?s=">VisorCentral</a> Forum Moderator - Forum Guidelines
    .....Sprint PCS Treo 650
    .....God bless America, my home sweet home...
  19.    #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by MarkEagle
    Couldn't have said it better myself!

    Anyone that's been around here for even a short period of time knows quite well that there's little or no tolerance for personal attacks of any kind. How much clearer does it need to be? How many times must we visit this topic?
    Evidently somewhat clearer. Personal attack is rather vague. I was also unaware of a limit on the amount of times a topic could be discussed. No one ever askes that about wifi.

    How about this. Please indicate which is the correct definition acording to TC.

    Definition, Personal attack:

    1. comments or statements directed at a particular person intended to defame, anger, insult, offend or otherwise cause them emotional distress.

    2. Comments made in the course of a discussion, that although may be in response to a particular posters comments, are not directed at them personally and are not intended to be received by that person as directed exclusively at them, but may be directed at a general segment of a particular group and may be considered offensive by someone somewhere.

    Which of these constitutes an insult or personal attack?

    It could also be noted that common sense or not, lots of people could be offended by lots of comments. It is ironic that TC will use such a broad brush to define attacks when it regularly admonishes people for using broad generalizations in discussion.
  20. #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by Woof
    Which of these constitutes an insult or personal attack?
    Both, though I admit #2 isn't always blatant and may not be handled the same in every case. A lot of the time, it becomes a judgement call for us, and our judgement has NEVER been second guessed by the admins/owners of the site.


    It could also be noted that common sense or not, lots of people could be offended by lots of comments.
    True... what's acceptable to me may not be acceptable to you and vice versa. That's what makes our jobs as moderators more difficult. We need to "read between the lines" and make our best judgements based on the circumstances.


    It is ironic that TC will use such a broad brush to define attacks when it regularly admonishes people for using broad generalizations in discussion.
    Broad generalizations and personal attacks are not the same thing. One can generalize without attacking, but an attack cannot be generalized in any fashion (at least IMHO).

    Bottom line... how long are we going to belabor this point? Everyone knows where we stand; most everyone abides by the rules (written or not). How hard is it, really, for everyone to play nice?
    .
    .....
    MarkEagle
    .....<a href="http://discussion.treocentral.com/tcforum/index.php?s=">TreoCentral</a> | <a href="http://discussion.visorcentral.com/vcforum/index.php?s=">VisorCentral</a> Forum Moderator - Forum Guidelines
    .....Sprint PCS Treo 650
    .....God bless America, my home sweet home...
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