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  1. #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by nappy View Post
    Why do you think I don't use webOS?
    If you use webOS then you are in the webOS bubble and you know that folks who are in the bubble on this site can't change what HP does with webOS. It would be different if all these folks who complain about the platform here actually tried to petition HP to fix it. That would be helpful and most of us would join in their petition. I don't think they use or care about the platform and would much rather see it die than succeed. Does webOS have problems? Yes it does. However those problems are no better or worse than on any other platform.

    I have an Archos 70 250GB Android Tablet. I bought the tablet before the Touchpad came out and have had it for over 7 months. I go to ArchosFans forums to find help about the tablet. My first one had a hard drive failure 4 hours after I got it. I checked the forums for a solution, then sent it back for an exchange. There were minor complaints about the quality of the product on the ArchosFans forum site. Not "the Archos 70 should have never been released and you should have bought an iPad or a Xoom" like the crap you get here from people who don't even own the tablet. I also had an issue with the default home screen program crashing all the time. I went the ArchosFan forum site and it was recommended that I use Zeam or one of the other home screen replacements. It still crashes and is unstable regardless of the home screen app but you don't get "Android's home screens are a mess and Google will never get anyone to take them seriously unless they fix this so why ever use Android" mess you get from here from people who don't even use webOS.

    I can't stand to use the Archos 70 or any Android tablet right now because of the problems I had but I don't go over to ArchosFans or AndroidCentral and air that out to them. That would be downright disrespectful and wouldn't help at all. I would also receive some nasty responses from the other forum members.

    This site is for webOS fans just like the ArchosFans site is for fans of Archos devices. It is not for the obvious fans of other platforms to show up and tell you why their stuff is better.
  2. #42  
    I guess I just disagree with the idea that PreCentral should just be a bastion of positivity -- especially at a time when there's no longer anything to be positive about. I mean, the past 2 years have been punctuated with denial (we don't need apps, we don't need camera and mic APIs, etc) and unrealistic positivity (size and scale! webOS on every PC! a new webOS device every other month!) and look how that turned out.

    The fact is the TouchPad (and yes, I own one) has very serious problems and I just don't see the issue with new TouchPad owners (especially those that have used more polished and better supported platforms) complaining about them.
  3. #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by nappy View Post
    I guess I just disagree with the idea that PreCentral should just be a bastion of positivity -- especially at a time when there's no longer anything to be positive about. I mean, the past 2 years have been punctuated with denial (we don't need apps, we don't need camera and mic APIs, etc) and unrealistic positivity (size and scale! webOS on every PC! a new webOS device every other month!) and look how that turned out.

    The fact is the TouchPad (and yes, I own one) has very serious problems and I just don't see the issue with new TouchPad owners (especially those that have used more polished and better supported platforms) complaining about them.
    Don't think it has anything to do with being a "bastion of positivity". It more like, if you choose to stay with the platform, why spend a lot of energy on what should have been done/fixed/included... unless you are talking to HP. Other than the Samsung tablet, who else (non-Apple) is have any success?

    Rather spend my time on what I can do with what I have. Most people here (at least until the Touchpad firesale) were well aware of what the pros and cons of webOS were and made the choice to remain. Many of those who are not happy left, some who were not happy stayed and make a point of letting people know how unhappy they are.

    The folks here can't fix the problems of HP, so it's kind of pointless to harp on them at every turn. I believe the site is trying to be more of a CNN as opposed to an MSNBC or Fox news. (More information and less invective)

    C
    Last edited by C-Note; 09/02/2011 at 02:43 PM.
    "Sometimes I feel like an OS-less child..."
    (with apologies to Billie Holiday )
    k4ever likes this.
  4. #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by nappy View Post
    Come on, let's be serious. The only thing webOS threatens is the profitability of the company that owns it.

    Why is it so hard to believe that a product that has failed twice (for a myriad of reasons) might have some legitimate problems that folks outside of the webOS bubble might consider showstoppers?
    A valid opinion, but just an opinion. If you look at the tech press there are more than a few who see a possible strategy to success. To assume that all of these folks are in the "webOS bubble" is as preposterous as the contention that everyone who says something negative is a "hater".

    As to the failure of the platform, Palm was flat broke, and HP was (is) flat out stupid - for reasons posted elsewhere. If HP as it's currently constituted continues to run the show, I have very little hope for success. They are clueless on a number of levels. The problem now is they have so poisoned the well, they have made it infinitely harder to move forward.
    "Sometimes I feel like an OS-less child..."
    (with apologies to Billie Holiday )
    geekpeter likes this.
  5. #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by nappy View Post
    Come on, let's be serious. The only thing webOS threatens is the profitability of the company that owns it.

    Why is it so hard to believe that a product that has failed twice (for a myriad of reasons) might have some legitimate problems that folks outside of the webOS bubble might consider showstoppers?
    I'll be serious.... you are on a webOS enthusiast site. People come here because they enjoy webOS and really like discussing it with others who feel the same. If you prefer Android. or Apple, or Windows, or whatever... we have sites dedicated to fans of those products. I suggest coming to terms with the fact that people on this site really may like it and are truly positive about the products - flaws and all. We don't squash negativity as long as it is a real issue. But what we do contend with are posters who post only negativity and are not here to add value to the forums and discussions. That's not what these forums are about. Anyone can post grips and complaints... we see that a lot. But the foremost purpose of these forums has been explained very clearly HERE.
    Last edited by HelloNNNewman; 09/02/2011 at 05:10 PM.
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  6. cgk
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    #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by HelloNNNewman View Post
    I'll be serious.... you are on a webOS enthusiast site. People come here because they enjoy webOS and really like discussing it with others who feel the same. If you prefer Android. or Apple, or Windows, or whatever... we have sites dedicated to fans of those products. I suggest coming to terms with the fact that people on this site really may like it and are truly positive about the products - flaws and all.
    lets face it, that is partly because any new user who shows up and asks a question about webOS that long-timers don't like is treated like scum, accused of being a hater or a troll and quickly learns to keep their mouth shut or they leave. A lot of firesale owners have been given a really rough ride simply because they thought they were buying a cheap tablet rather than an ideological stance.
  7. #47  
    Sure, and I agree that there are positives that are worth discussing. But when someone says something like:

    I just purchased my TouchPad Friday and am new to this site. However in just a few days I have noticed a big influx of New posts with negative comments about this device. Even though some negative comments are valid, I think many are posted by members who don't even own one but instead have other motives.
    it just does a disservice to people who have legitimate gripes about the product.
  8. #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by CGK View Post
    lets face it, that is partly because any new user who shows up and asks a question about webOS that long-timers don't like is treated like scum, accused of being a hater or a troll and quickly learns to keep their mouth shut or they leave. A lot of firesale owners have been given a really rough ride simply because they thought they were buying a cheap tablet rather than an ideological stance.
    Pleas enlighten me as to the threads where the new users were "asking questions" and been given a rough time.

    Now I have seen new users come on here and be given a rough time because there "question" was. "Why doesn't the TP/webOS, do ******** like iOS or Android? This is a piece of garbage" etc. I've also seen folks going around stating that TP and webOS aren't worth it even at fire sale prices. Which for anyone being honest about what you get for the money, is INSANE.

    Now if you want to rebut that my version of a "question" is still a valid question/post/comment on TP webOS. I would like to say that these new users must have never been a part of any forum or discussion board on the internet.

    I also would like to point out that the first rule of becoming a member of a new forum or discussion group should always be to read and search before you insert yourself into a conversation. You will get a good feel for the people posting and most likely have a better experience, not to mention you will more readily get the information you are looking for.
    I love physical keyboards... but there is two devices that would make me consider a slab, one is something running a full version of Open webOS. The other is an iPhone!!!! HA HA just kidding (about the iPhone that is)...
    k4ever likes this.
  9. #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by nappy View Post
    Sure, and I agree that there are positives that are worth discussing. But when someone says something like:



    it just does a disservice to people who have legitimate gripes about the product.
    people want to hear how to get the most from their device, not a barage of posts about why they shouldn't have bought it.
    k4ever and OldSkoolVWLover like this.
  10. #50  
    I read that post too, nappy.... and none of us were excited by that honest view by a new member. It's funny, if we moderate and try and fairly reign in the negativity without harming the discussions - we hear cries of 'censoring' (on a private site, yet). If we let discussions bloom, negativity and all, in hopes that HP or whoever is reading takes note of the true temperature of their customers - it scares off new members. BUT there are a lot of threads that pop up fast with subjects that are only meant to troll. It's a fine line and we walk it as best as we can. In the end, there are some members who have an honest valid gripe about something that seems trivial and dumb to others and they think that person is trolling. On the other hand, there are some members who simply post to stir up members. LOL It's a crazy world.
    Last edited by HelloNNNewman; 09/02/2011 at 05:35 PM.
  11. #51  
    I noticed this on launch day. Lots of people starting hate threads, and they were new users with like 2 posts. Haters gonna hate, gators gonna gate, hipsters gonna hipst.
  12. #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by etx View Post
    I noticed this on launch day. Lots of people starting hate threads, and they were new users with like 2 posts. Haters gonna hate, gators gonna gate, hipsters gonna hipst.
    and moderators gonna moderate and merge
  13. #53  
    See, I actually agree wholeheartedly with you, HelloNNNewman - I don't think there's an easy solution. I don't think a lot of the complainers are intentionally doing it just to ***** and moan - I think they're genuinely looking for help and answers and I think someone saying "you probably don't even own a TouchPad" just reflects poorly on, well, everyone. On other other hand, I think new TouchPad owners should probably reset their expectations considering it's a $99 tablet.

    A lot of the issues people complain about are things longtime webOS users have gotten used to. To someone new to the OS, though, they can be pretty jarring...especially if they're coming from another platform.
  14. #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by CGK View Post
    lets face it, that is partly because any new user who shows up and asks a question about webOS that long-timers don't like is treated like scum, accused of being a hater or a troll and quickly learns to keep their mouth shut or they leave. A lot of firesale owners have been given a really rough ride simply because they thought they were buying a cheap tablet rather than an ideological stance.
    I personally have not come across anyone being "treated like scum" for simply asking a question. But the fact is, there are some people who have of late being consistently posting only negatively about webOS and the TouchPad. Constantly harping, in post after post, in mutiple threads, about how webOS is dead. What I personally fail to understand is, leaving aside the merits of that position, why in the world are these people here? Do they really have nothing better to do, or is there a hidden agenda at play here? It's one thing to express one's opinion of what they think the future of webOS may hold and everyone has a right to their own opinion. But, if they really see no merit or future in webOS, then shouldn't they just move on? I am sure there are tons of other forums that they can find a home in and where, other like minded people can spend their time burying webOS and it's ghosts.
    Pre3 (AT&T meta-doctored to ROW) webOS 2.2.4 build 3175
    TouchPad WiFi (32GB) - webOS 3.0.5 build 86
    App Catalog (US) - Vodafone (India)

    Treo 180 > 270 > 600 > 650 > 680 > Pre+ > Pre2 > Pre+ > Pre3 & tPad
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  15. #55  
    @nappy... we're on the same page.. I actually just happened on a post where a member was rude to a brand new member for not knowing how to do something basic on the TouchPad. It's stuff like this that the people who have been here a long time have to understand... new members simply will not know the most basic stuff and need help. WebOS 101 is now open and we are needing everyone to be patient teachers!
  16. #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by CGK View Post
    lets face it, that is partly because any new user who shows up and asks a question about webOS that long-timers don't like is treated like scum, accused of being a hater or a troll and quickly learns to keep their mouth shut or they leave. A lot of firesale owners have been given a really rough ride simply because they thought they were buying a cheap tablet rather than an ideological stance.
    There is a difference between asking for help and complaining. New users are welcomed into the community and given courses of action to fix their issues. Complainers draw scorn from everyone around them. No one likes a complainer, plain and simple. However, we are not so naive that we cannot tell the difference between trolling and asking for help. Asking for help usually begins with "Please help. I am having a problem with xxxx". Trolling usually begins with "The Touchpad is a POS because it can't do xxxx or because I'm having a problem with xxxx" or "I can't believe someone paid $$$ for the Touchpad because of xxxx". There is a big difference between the examples and we are not fools, so take that crap elsewhere.
  17. #57  
    On the positive tip, how great is ncinerate's getting started guide? I was pretty familiar with the product even before buying one on clearance and I still learned a lot from it.
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    #58  
    I like whatever technology works the best for me. I have alot of apple gear but I'd drop them in a heartbeat if something with better functioality came along, especially if it was cheaper. Right now my iPhone is useless, apples activation servers are down. Genius at the apple store did not help me. People in the apple forums are cold blooded. Alot of them come off as missery loves company type of people. I feel sorry for the nice ones, they don't know how to walk away.
  19. #59  
    Thanks for the feedback folks... I think we've covered all the bases at this point

    Again.. we do remind our members to be helpful and polite in the forums! And ask that everyone remember to please read our Forum Guidelines and our Letter to All Members.

    Thank you!
    Cantaffordit likes this.
  20. #60  
    There was a thread critiquing those who critiqued (or “haters”, as they were called) webOS and its devices. While I was composing what I had hoped (and sincerely thought) was a thoughtful response the thread was locked by the moderators. I was composing off line in a word processor and when I returned to post and discovered the thread locked I felt inspired to start a new thread as I sincerely believe the points I wished to make are valid ones. I cannot now find the original thread (I have no idea where it was or what the moderators may have done with it) so I’ve had to “guesstimate” at which section it would be most appropriate to post in.


    It would be truly cool if the hackers who purchased the TouchPad to put Android on it, find that they like webOS to the point they start Homebrewing away and really add to the development of the OS in adding the speed and tweaks everyone has wanted. WebOS-Internals does amazing work, but adding to that number of Homebrewers could really be cool.
    I agree. I always thought the “android conversion” was a dumb idea. I am using a “rooted” Nook Color (cm7) as my current tablet device (did it to see if I’d find a tablet useful and if I’d want a 7” tablet or a larger form factor. I find a tablet useful and I want a larger form factor). I’d much rather see webOS hacked onto a more functional piece of hardware. IF I wanted an Android tablet I’d buy the Acer Iconia instead, because the hardware is more functional (SD card reader, full size USB port for thumb drives, HDMI port). The extra functionality justifies the extra cost, at least for me.

    One thing that WOULD BE REALLY AWSOME would be to put Classic on the TP. That would give it all the application functionality it needs while native webOS apps are being developed, without the nuisance of a “dual boot”, if that was even going to be an option.


    If you use webOS then you are in the webOS bubble and you know that folks who are in the bubble on this site can't change what HP does with webOS. It would be different if all these folks who complain about the platform here actually tried to petition HP to fix it. That would be helpful and most of us would join in their petition.
    I don’t know who “all these folks who complain” are but I don’t think it is descriptive of me. I’ve spent HOURS posting here: Feedback & Feature Requests | Palm USAand I’m sure many others have also. I’ve also sometimes posted in the forum my “needs & wants”, my “disappointments”, and my “what it will take to get my biz” and I have often found that others here share many of those feelings. It’s not just a rant, I assume that Palm and HP monitor these types of sites for intelligence data, or they would if they were smart. I was in direct commission sales for 10 years (if I sold something I was paid a percentage; no base, no draws, no advances, no residuals, no bonuses, no expense account). It wasn’t in the IT area, I sold biological products for the livestock industry and I also had an income stream from providing technical service for the product, but that was also a direct fee for service arrangement. Nothing hones one’s customer retention and new market development skills quite like that. One of my mentors taught me a long time ago that anytime you are around a customer, a potential customer, or at an allied industry event you needed to be “wired for sound”. That advice served me very well and I assume big companies like Palm and HP would have just as much savvy, but considering how things have gone, maybe not.

    I don't think they use or care about the platform and would much rather see it die than succeed. Does webOS have problems? Yes it does. However those problems are no better or worse than on any other platform.
    We can make informed and insightful observations about the platform precisely because we have used it. If we would “rather see it die than succeed” I wouldn’t need to say anything because for the moment it seems to be doing a good enough job at the former all by itself.

    … no better or worse than on any other platform is somewhat subjective. I really don’t care for the “A factor” but for the moment it allows the performance of mission critical tasks that webOS doesn’t.

    I’ve been a loyal supporter for a long time. My first Palm OS device was a monochrome Sony Clie so that’s been awhile. “WinMorbid” and the “i-things” have NEVER sullied the tips of my fingers. The only reason I’m even touching the “A factor” is because the webOS establishment deemed me (and thousands of others) unworthy of using Classic past our Palm Pre 1.4.5 devices. As for turning to this forum for support I DID ask here about porting Classic to the TouchPad and received NO response or support.

    As for “haters” that term can cut both ways. There have been many instances, including in threads devoted to “what would you like to see” topics, where several have ganged up on those who have dared to ask for an application or hardware feature not currently available. The responses have been along the lines of “Away with you Philistine, how DARE you ask for such banality on the pure and pristine webOS and HER glorious hardware. If you want “that” (fill in the blank) go get one of those i-[expletive deleted] things.

    So yeah, we’ve been promised that webOS would be better than Palm OS (I’m assuming that meant in terms of functionality ~ i.e. we could do EVERYTHING we use to do with Palm OS but also more and better) and that both Palm and HP were committed to the “enterprise user” (I’m thinking that meant business and community, not just personal, productivity) and I don’t believe that expressing one’s disappointment in that promise not being kept makes one a “hater”.
    Tungsten E / dumb phone -> TX / Blackberry Pearl -> Pre (1.4.1.1) -> Evo 4G / rooted Nook Color (with the Pre on the side).
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