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  1. #21  
    To the PC owners/editors/article writers.... You're still missing the point, YOU just shot the palm dev coomunity in the foot, we want to test our apps against the new version and doing what you did just made it harder, yes the ***** who leaked it is to blame, but hurting dev's the way you did is wrong and stupid on your part, why would you try and kill the great relationship palm has with the dev's on such a small issue as a VKB. Yes I know you where not available when Derek posted the article but Derek must be reigned in and kept in check, its not the first time one of his articles have caused problems
  2. #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by abegee View Post
    To the PC owners/editors/article writers.... You're still missing the point, YOU just shot the palm dev coomunity in the foot, we want to test our apps against the new version and doing what you did just made it harder, yes the ***** who leaked it is to blame, but hurting dev's the way you did is wrong and stupid on your part, why would you try and kill the great relationship palm has with the dev's on such a small issue as a VKB. Yes I know you where not available when Derek posted the article but Derek must be reigned in and kept in check, its not the first time one of his articles have caused problems
    Palm did wrong by cutting your access NOT Derek. Palm actually shot themselves in the foot by cutting your access, which by the way was gone only for a day because of some junior developer and not a senior palm decision.
    If this helped you hit thanks.
  3. #23  
    The Engadget Podcast released today got into this a little. Josh jokingly chided his group for not getting the leak so he could publish it. He also restated his love for webOS.

    I believe the overall character of the community fostered* by Precentral is kind, intelligent, helpful, and generous. I truly think all of these attributes are inherited directly from Dieter. I met him once and in the short time I spent with him he clearly exhibited each one of those traits.

    I think those attributes are shared by all of the folks who write for this site, especially Derek - and even Keith.

    Derek gets a +1 for loyalty also. From what I've heard and read, he is totally devoted to Palm.


    *Definition of FOSTER
    (Merriam-Webster)

    1: to give parental care to : nurture
    2: to promote the growth or development of : encourage
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by Dieter Bohn View Post
    Make no mistake: if we hadn't leaked this story, somebody else would have.
    That's a lame thing to say, a real "get out of jail card" for anything you might wish to publish in the future

    I'm sure we will all get over this, but for me T|C's cred has gone down a notch or two. Sorry
    Thought of the day :
    No sense being pessimistic, it probably wouldn't work anyway
  5. #25  
    I agree that 'if I didn't do it, someone else would have' isn't valid - and definitely not something you will want to hear from your kids.

    to me, the real story is that there WAS a leak, and Palm's strong response. THAT was the story.

    the ONE thing I would have done different is that I wouldn't have posted the actual code. Especially since it was a PC forum where the material was leaked (they provided the venue). --That's why bartenders are responsible for not letting a patron get too drunk. Even if 'someone else could sell them the drink if I dont'. Admittedly not the perfect analogy, so save the flames!

    But that's the call PC has to make about impacting their relationahip with palm and with PC. If they don't agree with me - doesn't change credibility. It's their relationship with palm, not mine. I hope PC is right.

    but saying 'if I didn't get in the car with that drunk driver, someone else would have' or 'if I didn't report it' etc... Not so much. Just ask Dan Rather how that thinking worked out for him.
    Last edited by Workerb33; 09/05/2010 at 11:08 AM.
  6. dsei's Avatar
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    #26  
    Calling the screenshot "code" is a little misleading. Actual VKB code and a simple config file are completely different.
  7. #27  
    @untidy, may I suggest the decaf? :-)
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by kkhanmd View Post
    Palm did wrong by cutting your access NOT Derek. Palm actually shot themselves in the foot by cutting your access, which by the way was gone only for a day because of some junior developer and not a senior palm decision.
    So palm has us under NDA and you say Palm is wrong by keeping us to it?? P|C just lost credibilty both from the user community and the dev community
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by abegee View Post
    So palm has us under NDA and you say Palm is wrong by keeping us to it?? P|C just lost credibilty both from the user community and the dev community
    That is not what was said at all.

    I don't think that anyone would disagree that the developers who are under an NDA should be bound by it. If any developer violated the terms of the NDA by leaking the information, they should be dealt with by Palm. The point (and the most newsworthy part of this issue) is Palm's reaction which was to punish all the developers, including the vast majority who did NOT violate the NDA.

    I can't speak for the developer community, but please do not think you are speaking for the user community. PreCentral has not lost credibility with me. If PreCentral writers had not sought out the story and reported it, I would have thought less of them. Derek was doing his job.
  10. #30  
    If precenral had not published this story than they would have lost credibility from me
    If this helped you hit thanks.
  11. #31  
    I hope palm doesnt shoot themselves in foot again by blocking the developer access. Whatever fraction of android/iphone developers they have, and I mean minuscule fraction of them, palm just kicked them in nuts.
    If this helped you hit thanks.
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by kkhanmd View Post
    If precenral had not published this story than they would have lost credibility from me
    how would you have known? (grin)
  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by abegee View Post
    So palm has us under NDA and you say Palm is wrong by keeping us to it?? P|C just lost credibilty both from the user community and the dev community
    You're not speaking for me. P|C did exactly what they should do when given this information. They are not bound by any NDA. The only people that are bound by NDA's are the developers and a NDA represents an individual relationship between Palm and a developer as opposed to a group relationship between Palm and all developers. Thats where Palm screwed up by holding all developers responsible for someone else's NDA violation. They realized this quickly and resumed normal operation of their early access program. Palm should and will hold individuals responsible for upholding that legal agreement. That has nothing to do with P|C though.
  14. #34  
    Totally agree with Dieter's OP.

    However, if Palm wouldn't overreact, what kind of message would that have been?
    "Yes, sign our NDA, but really... if you break it, who cares?"
  15. #35  
    I was one of the ones that reacted strongly on twitter when this all first happened. I got over it in like 15 minutes. Things happen, then things change, and life goes on. Hey, I still get to develop for webOS and PreCentral is still a good site run by good people. As far as I'm concerned, everything's okay.

    My only comment is that people have said "no one freaks when Gizmodo or Engadget report on leaks." That is true, but, the difference is that PreCentral is more community-driven, whereas Gizmodo and Engadget are profit-driven. While PreCentral does have ads, its main reason for existing is to help the Palm community flourish, not to make a dollar. The post sort of made me feel the opposite.

    But, like I said, I got over it because, hey, they didn't break any laws, so, who are we whine?

    PreCentral may want to note, though, that in PalmCast 118, Keith mentions he downloaded the SDK, which means he's bound by the NDA. I wouldn't have Keith report on any leaks.
  16. #36  
    Like Zhephree, I too reacted strongly and agree with his sentiments.

    I for one would like to apologize. Our anger was misdirected and should have been focused on the leaker -- not P|C. In hindsight, Keith's antagonizing on Twitter were hilarious, but only served to fuel the rage at the time. (I hope to see an app from his cat soon btw)

    To be fair, we were warned after the last leak from the EAP. We knew full well that if it happened again, we could, and would potentially lose the EAP. Our reactions were a showing of force that the larger dev community itself will stick together when needed to protect it's interest. Not unlike the webOS community at large. If only our reactions were directed in the right direction. Hard to bash Mr. Anon, when Keith will happily respond on Twitter

    Dieter, bravo to you sir for the cool, calm, and professional response. You are a scholar and a gentleman.

    I'm gonna go buy some things from the P|C Store now that I probably do not need.


    ** An excuse: I was frustrated from my first real night delving into the world of the PDK. It was a dark start to my evening I'm afraid.
    - James Harris

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  17. #37  
    Nice posting, Dieter! Agreed!
  18. #38  
    now we have a new leak by the same guy , the leak is coming from a dev based in china where intellectual property laws don't exist so there is little Palm can do to stop this, unless they block all app development from china. thanks P|C for hosting the leakers
    Last edited by abegee; 09/07/2010 at 12:40 PM.
  19. Scoobie10's Avatar
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    #39  
    What I don't get is why the Dev's thought Dieter wouldn't go to bat for them. He always does. And if you'll notice, after he cleared the air, thats exactly what he did by pointing out how goofy Palms response was. I have a lot of respect for the Dev's, but that was nothing more than just stepping on the guy who alway stands up for you.

    To me, Palm's response was very reactionary.... as was the response of the Dev's.
    Scoob
  20. #40  
    Originally Posted by kkhanmd
    If precenral had not published this story than they would have lost credibility from me

    Quote Originally Posted by Workerb33 View Post
    how would you have known? (grin)
    Someone else would have published it!
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