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  1. Gunnole's Avatar
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    #21  
    moserjj, I am downloading and will test it later today (inside the office right now).

    Theoretically, assuming it works, if it is running in the background, then other GPS apps will be able to take advantage of the aGPS, right?

    I should be looking for faster GPS locks with a low horizontal accuracy, right?
  2. Gunnole's Avatar
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    #22  
    good to know. I'm working on a script that will try to obtain gps info within the kernel - maybe what I'll do is bombard it with multiple requests, rather than one, and see if that wakes it up any better.
    I came to a similar conclusion. I can eventually get my GPS to work, it just seems to take many tries, so I thought an app that just tried to turn it on the GPS rapidly many times in succession might do the trick...
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by ScorpionSoul View Post
    A thought just occurred to me, so I did some checking around on other forums about GPS. My thought matches with what I found, so hopefully this isn't something that's been overlooked and creates a giant "Doh!" moment

    Anyway, battery issues being what they are, a lot of people (myself included) have a tendency to keep 3G and/or wifi turned off when not in use. And I figured that, since the Pre's GPS is trying to get aGPS data from cell towers and standard GPS data from satellites, that 3G and/or wifi are not required for the GPS to function. From what I've read, this is true... but GPS acquisition will be significantly slower without it (this, I don't know why.. it's just what I read).

    Anyway, more to the point. I went back outside and repeated someone's earlier suggestion (which I had success with) and tried opening up Trapster. Couldn't get a lock after several minutes. Same with GPS Dashboard. Then I noticed that I didn't have 3G or wifi enabled. Did a quick reboot, turned on wifi and had a lock in both programs in under 10 seconds. Another quick reboot with 3G instead of wifi and had a lock again in around 10 seconds.

    So, since the guys who are spending all their free time digging through code that makes no sense to me have mentioned looking for something that would trigger the aGPS service... maybe try looking at the 3G/wifi aspects and see if there's something there. As I said, hopefully this is just my lame attempt at a suggestion, rather than a troubleshooting oversight that results from trying to save battery power.

    Anyway, it's just a thought... feel free to tell me I'm way off mark and let the people who know what they're doing handle it

    *edit*

    And in case it's useful information, I have never (not even once) opened the VZNav application on my phone...
    you know this might be a valid assumption -- i have always stated that my GPS works acceptably and 1 thing i never do is turn off the data stream and if available i am always hooked up to wifi and maybe this simple thing could account for some of my phone's success where others are failing -- good point
    -------------------------------------------------------------------
    Rob Chilcott

    Twitter @robchilcott
    pre2
    " I am only a stupid electrician after all"

    My house is a webOS house
    My pre 2, Touchpad 32g
    Wife Pixi, touchpad 32gb
    Daughter -- my old pre+
    of course my 16 year old son has and droid incredible but i think i remeber finding him on the porch
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by ScorpionSoul View Post
    A thought just occurred to me, so I did
    Anyway, battery issues being what they are, a lot of people (myself included) have a tendency to keep 3G and/or wifi turned off when not in use. And I figured that, since the Pre's GPS is trying to get aGPS data from cell towers and standard GPS data from satellites, that 3G and/or wifi are not required for the GPS to function. From what I've read, this is true... but GPS acquisition will be significantly slower without it (this, I don't know why.. it's just what I read).
    in my journey, i've only toggled gps and wifi off....not data...i know that toggling gps off will increase lock times...and the data toggle would seem to hurt it as well. I tried leaving wifi on and it didn't help get a quick lock. I also stay on my lan when at home....which is 90% of my day.
    Last edited by jhodnettejr; 05/06/2010 at 02:50 PM. Reason: left something out
  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by GUNNole View Post
    I came to a similar conclusion. I can eventually get my GPS to work, it just seems to take many tries, so I thought an app that just tried to turn it on the GPS rapidly many times in succession might do the trick...
    hmmmm
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by sf_basilix View Post
    good to know. I'm working on a script that will try to obtain gps info within the kernel - maybe what I'll do is bombard it with multiple requests, rather than one, and see if that wakes it up any better.
    now we are talkin'
  7. #27  
    FWIW, I've started using gps dashboard everytime I'm in the car and I've been able to get a lock on every location based app within 10 secs without ever needing to open VZ nav.

    This has been working for me consistently for the last 16 hours. 8 of those hours my phone was in airplane mode (was sleeping), and first thing in the morning I opened gps dashboard, which locked on within 10 secs again!

    Previously, if I left my gps idle (no location based apps open) for longer than even a couple hours I'd have to reopen VZ nav to get things going, and even that wouldn't work sometimes.
  8. moserjj's Avatar
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    #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by GUNNole View Post
    moserjj, I am downloading and will test it later today (inside the office right now).

    Theoretically, assuming it works, if it is running in the background, then other GPS apps will be able to take advantage of the aGPS, right?

    I should be looking for faster GPS locks with a low horizontal accuracy, right?
    Right - you want accuracy values in the single digits for the best fix. I only created this app to test the mysterious "host" and "port" parameters that the VZ Navigator app passes to the GPS service call. I don't know what they do and they may very well do nothing. Let me know what kind of results you see.
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by moserjj View Post
    Right - you want accuracy values in the single digits for the best fix. I only created this app to test the mysterious "host" and "port" parameters that the VZ Navigator app passes to the GPS service call. I don't know what they do and they may very well do nothing. Let me know what kind of results you see.
    mygps locked....after I jump started the gps with 2 other attempts from othe apps. Once there I had accuracies of 3 horz and vert...

    does airplane mode sleep the gps chipset too?
  10. moserjj's Avatar
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    #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by jhodnettejr View Post
    mygps locked....after I jump started the gps with 2 other attempts from othe apps. Once there I had accuracies of 3 horz and vert...

    does airplane mode sleep the gps chipset too?
    I play golf all the time with my app when the phone is in airplane mode. it only seems to work for me (reliably) if i turn on airplane mode after i'm already tracking the gps.
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by moserjj View Post
    I play golf all the time with my app when the phone is in airplane mode. it only seems to work for me (reliably) if i turn on airplane mode after i'm already tracking the gps.
    I didn't think airplane mode turned off gps.....

    @cr_8_tiv: once you toggle off the gps gpsdash will likely need a jump start from another 2 or 3 apps.
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by jhodnettejr View Post
    mygps locked....after I jump started the gps with 2 other attempts from othe apps. Once there I had accuracies of 3 horz and vert...

    does airplane mode sleep the gps chipset too?
    Very interesting... I just went in to my back yard, and I couldn't get a lock after a couple of minutes. I started 3 more apps, and it locked in the next 10-15 seconds (forgot to start the stopwatch app...)

    But, it is showing me in a location about a block from my house. After I shut down those apps, my phone rebooted itself. After it came back up, every app had a lock almost instantly (I wasn't expecting that) but still about a block away... but a little closer.

    But, I noticed a couple of things. Several showed me travelling between 1mph and 6mph (I was sitting in a chair), and each app showed a different elevation - way different.

    None were correct. I live at about 1,500 feet elevation. One showed me at 3,000+, one at 800, etc.

    That takes me back to aGPS topics. Since the satellites drift some, that could explain the speed while sitting. Not sure about the altitude differences.

    But a few feet of drift in geosynchronous orbit would translate into a larger distance on the ground, and without the aGPS data to correct... it could reduce accuracy. I'm going to go back out with my Blackberry and compare it in google maps...

    Someone else mentioned that turning wifi on seemed to help wake up the gps. I don't know why but someone can try that... My wifi is always on at home, so I don't want to introduce a new variable yet...
  13. #33  
    @cantaffordit- your position and speed can jump around as satelittes are adding their position data to the app
  14. #34  
    Ok, that was weird. The BB locked in about 5 seconds, but about a mile away. Then I watched my location dot (drive) closer until it was in my back yard.

    My Pre+ locked within about 5 seconds, and started within a couple of houses. It eventually found it's way into my back yard, and stopped about 25 feet from the BB (the BB location was within about 10 feet)

    But, it also really points to another deficiency on Google maps. With the location clearly in my year (google maps shows property lines), the gps app that will grab an address returns the address of a back-fence neighbor. I've noticed that sort of thing in google maps, and I had submitted a correction for my address to Google a few years ago when they started asking people to send corrections... So Google maps on my PC now shows the exact center of my house as being my address. But with the GPS locating me about 50 feet from the center of my house, it thinks my address is a house on the next street that has a common corner with my yard. Does Google maps not use the same map info for any app using google maps?

    These houses are about 20 years old, so it isn't just that addresses haven't caught up to new construction...

    That's odd, but the way the dots tend to float around on the pre screen tells me there is something about this "drift" thing, and there may be something to the idea of "waking up the radio".

    my empirical observation is that it moves around on the pre more, which probably confirms it is only looking at satellites where a few inches in space would translate to yards on the ground.

    The at&t bb must be getting aGPS data which adds a little bit of speed and accuracy, but nothing that makes my Pre+ unusable. Curious.
  15. #35  
    @jhodnettejr

    I just ran a quick test and turned off gps for 10 minutes. I turned it back on, re-launched GPS Dashboard (which I haven't done in about 2 hours), and it found my location (accurate to 10 meters) in about 60 secs. There seems to be something special about the way this app accesses the gps. Previously it was difficult to consistently get location locks like this over such long periods of time. Its been about 20 hours since I've last launched VZ nav.
  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by moserjj View Post
    I've been looking into VZ navigator app to see what is different with the GPS api call. So far, I've found 2 additional (and undocumented) parameters that may or may not make a difference. I threw together a quick GPS tester app that includes these 2 parameters but since I have only Sprint devices, it works fine.

    If someone wants to test it with a Verizon device, you can get the app for free at Palm USA | Palm webOS Applications | Mobile apps that go further.

    You can also notice how unresponsive the GPS tracking seems to be for the first 15-30 seconds. Once you get a better lock, it seems to update every second as it should.
    I ran this app. What do I need to do to provide you with useful information from it?
  17. Gunnole's Avatar
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    #37  
    moserjj, I ran the app for a while and it didn't seem to help. I stayed outside in the clear a few minutes, then left it running on the dash for the whole ride home. 30 minutes later and still never got h accuracy < 1500. I even tried all the other tricks along the way (VZ Nav opened, turn WIFI on, Trapster, etc).
  18. #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by cr_8_tiv View Post
    @jhodnettejr I just ran a quick test and turned off gps for 10 minutes. I turned it back on, re-launched GPS Dashboard (which I haven't done in about 2 hours), and it found my location (accurate to 10 meters) in about 60 secs. There seems to be something special about the way this app accesses the gps. Previously it was difficult to consistently get location locks like this over such long periods of time. Its been about 20 hours since I've last launched VZ nav.
    I really hope that it holds. If you did a full power down and pulled the battery for 10 minutes or so and then it holds i'd be shocked. Some of these 3rd party apps are "better" at waking up the gps. What version of gpsdash? I use gpsdasboard+...most recnt ver
  19. #39  
    I'm just using the free version.
  20. #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by cr_8_tiv View Post
    I'm just using the free version.
    wonder if this does hold for you that the free er. Has something diff in the software. The guys looking deep into the OS could find it....
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