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  1. #1461  
    Quote Originally Posted by Demlor View Post
    It still has the option to vote.

    and I just voted on my Pre, so it's not over.
    BlackBerry Bold 9700 (TMO) 49% (10,824 votes)
    Palm Pre Plus (VZW) 51% (11,136 votes)
    Update: Note that voting closes at 9AM Eastern Tuesday, March 30.

    Yes, I read your previous post and then decided to donate extra. But some user deciced to post a page long kernel dump or whatever, and my message got lost. Don't mention it.
  2. #1462  
    [QUOTE = caj2008; 2336191] En mi opinión, no en el Pre stock durará en cualquier lugar cerca de 10 años basado exclusivamente en el diseño exterior de los componentes y todas las cuestiones con ellos. Marco y creo que la CPU y otros componentes relacionados internos son mejores que muchos creen (sólo nuestra opinión y vamos a dejar que los resultados de hacer el) hablando [/ QUOTE]

    First things first: Palm Pre is a mobile phone that uses the Texas Instruments OMAP processor 3430. This processor, along the lines of manufacturers can support up to 800MHz speed, but has a lot to see the temperatures at which they are made to work (maximum 90 ° C) and daily hours to which it exposes. A processor of these characteristics has a lifespan of about 10 years, if we think we overclock our Pre reduces life by 50%, we would be talking about a Pre for the next five years. If before, of course, not sell, we fall into a puddle of water, accidentally sat on top of her, we fall down screen or in the worst case, we're stolen.

    I think it's more likely any of the cases listed to stick with a Palm until it is unusable. Just see it unlikely.

    If what is written is wrong, please correct me.
  3. #1463  
    Quote Originally Posted by despinova View Post
    First things first: Palm Pre is a mobile phone that uses the Texas Instruments OMAP processor 3430. This processor, along the lines of manufacturers can support up to 800MHz speed, but has a lot to see the temperatures at which they are made to work (maximum 90 ° C) and daily hours to which it exposes. A processor of these characteristics has a lifespan of about 10 years, if we think we overclock our Pre reduces life by 50%, we would be talking about a Pre for the next five years.
    If what is written is wrong, please correct me.
    The Pre has an OMAP 3430 rated at 600MHz. There is a 720MHz version of the OMAP3430 available, but it is not in the Pre. There is a different OMAP chip which runs at 800MHz, again it is not in the Pre.

    Running a 600MHz OMAP at 720MHz reduces the lifetime from 100K hours to 44K hours according to the manufacturer data-sheet. It is not known how much further running at 800MHz reduces the lifetime. Note that even when running the OMAP3430 at 600MHz, the operating point is referred to in the manufacturer data-sheet as "OPP5: Overdrive".

    Note that going from 720MHz to 800MHz increases the core voltage by the same amount as going from 500MHz to 720MHz, so one might expect a similar reduction again, perhaps to ~20K hours, but that is pure conjecture as the data is not publicly available from the manufacturer.

    -- Rod
    WebOS Internals and Preware Founder and Developer
    You may wish to donate by Paypal to donations @ webos-internals.org if you find our work useful.
    All donations go back into development.
    www.webos-internals.org twitter.com/webosinternals facebook.com/webosinternals
  4. #1464  
    This is the greatest patch ever made for the Palm Pre!
  5. #1465  
    Quote Originally Posted by mvpsanto View Post
    This is the greatest patch ever made for the Palm Pre!
    +1 but internalz also, with out the both of them i dont know what i would do lol
  6. #1466  
    thats true lol this patch just made the pre so much smoother and faster.
  7. #1467  
    Just curious...

    Being that updating without removing the kernel mod could require doctoring, would it possibly be advantageous to modify the UpdateDaemon to block os updates within these scripts which would require removal of the kernel mod prior to performing the update?

    Anyhow, all is well...Thanks for all your efforts!

    .
  8. #1468  
    Quote Originally Posted by rwhitby View Post
    The Pre has an OMAP 3430 rated at 600MHz. There is a 720MHz version of the OMAP3430 available, but it is not in the Pre. There is a different OMAP chip which runs at 800MHz, again it is not in the Pre.

    Running a 600MHz OMAP at 720MHz reduces the lifetime from 100K hours to 44K hours according to the manufacturer data-sheet. It is not known how much further running at 800MHz reduces the lifetime. Note that even when running the OMAP3430 at 600MHz, the operating point is referred to in the manufacturer data-sheet as "OPP5: Overdrive".

    Note that going from 720MHz to 800MHz increases the core voltage by the same amount as going from 500MHz to 720MHz, so one might expect a similar reduction again, perhaps to ~20K hours, but that is pure conjecture as the data is not publicly available from the manufacturer.

    -- Rod
    20K hours = 2,3 years, right? Based on your post, I'm considering going to 720.
    Thanks for the explanation.
  9. #1469  
    First installed the 800MHz patch....was quite amazed at the speed, smoothness, etc....obviously....today kept getting some temperature alerts, although to be fair I was charging (thru usb) at the time so that could have something to do with it I suppose.

    Decided for safety's sake, to drop down to the 720MHz patch instead....seems to operate just as smoothly with no noticeable difference in speed from the 800MHz patch, and no more temp alerts.

    Awesome work guys.

    I read that 720 reduces life to 20k hours? Is this true? I think it's worth it personally...but that's just me.

    And is it true that if a new WebOS update comes out I'll have to take off this patch before I update?

    Thanks
  10. #1470  
    Quote Originally Posted by fortwynt View Post
    I read that 720 reduces life to 20k hours? Is this true?
    Refer to rwhitby's post on this page:

    720:
    Running a 600MHz OMAP at 720MHz reduces the lifetime from 100K hours to 44K hours

    800:
    Note that going from 720MHz to 800MHz increases the core voltage by the same amount as going from 500MHz to 720MHz, so one might expect a similar reduction again, perhaps to ~20K hours,
  11. #1471  
    Quote Originally Posted by caj2008 View Post
    I wouldn't publish those numbers in any scientific journal
    caj, needless to say my post was mere speculation and a feeble attempt to responsibly maximize my Pre's lifespan while enjoying your wonderful work. Hope I haven't offended you, but it seems I did
  12. #1472  
    Quote Originally Posted by caj2008 View Post
    I didn't think Rod you would speculate like this. There is too many variables at play here (user, board, cpu quality which your crude estimate doesn't take into account. Also the math itself is questionable. People have the choice of 500, 550, 600, 720, etc. They know the risks as we have warned them.
    Each person is free to look at the facts from the manufacturer datasheet and draw their own conclusions. That's what objective non-emotional technical discussion is all about.

    Quote Originally Posted by caj2008 View Post
    I am so sad that even Rod is now speculating knowing this is a multivariable equation where the users were abundantly warned before the start. This is becoming tabloid and not true science and I do not want any part of that.
    I really think you are overreacting. Let's take this back to non-emotional technical discussion thanks, where individuals do not get offended simply because another individual puts forward a conjecture.

    Note that my post was clearly marked with the facts separated from the pure conjecture. At no time have I advised anyone one way or the other on the personal decision that each person needs to make based on the facts and opinions that they have available to them.

    Whether you overclock your own personal device is a decision that should be based on many factors, including:

    1) How fast you want your device to perform
    2) How long you expect to use your device
    3) How much you would be prepared to pay for a replacement
    4) How close your nearest service center or replacement device is
    5) Whether you would make a fraudulent warranty or insurance claim

    It's a personal decision. No-one should be telling anyone else what they should do. And no-one should be offended if someone else has a different opinion. It's a smartphone, not a religion.

    -- Rod
    WebOS Internals and Preware Founder and Developer
    You may wish to donate by Paypal to donations @ webos-internals.org if you find our work useful.
    All donations go back into development.
    www.webos-internals.org twitter.com/webosinternals facebook.com/webosinternals
  13. bakerja's Avatar
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    #1473  
    Quote Originally Posted by caj2008 View Post
    Overclocking is what it is.
    That pretty much says it all. While overclocking is cool (well hot actually), it can produce results that will render your device unusable. For those who accept the risk, GO FOR IT! Have fun! I also think there are a lot of folks trying this that might be thinking, "everyone else seems to be working ok, I think I'll do it". Keep in mind that overclocking has a cumulative effect. It may be fine today, but who knows for how long. It will be interesting to follow this thread over time to see how the pre hardware holds up. I'll probably wait until I am eligible for a new phone before I jump in. Chicken hearted to say the least.

    Quote Originally Posted by rwhitby View Post
    It's a personal decision. No-one should be telling anyone else what they should do. And no-one should be offended if someone else has a different opinion. It's a smartphone, not a religion.

    -- Rod
    Well stated.
    jab
  14. #1474  
    I wanted to report back that I immediately had stability issues at 800MHz. I'm now down at 720MHz for about 3 hours and have already had 1 spontaneous reboot. (never had them before)

    I'm liking the performance bump (especially in the phone app) but the battery life looks to be totally unworkable for me.

    I'll report back after a couple of days.
  15. #1475  
    Quote Originally Posted by caj2008 View Post
    this is silly. Dont use it if you are not comfortable with the risks...overclocking is what it is. It has been done on every major platform prior to this one.
    I don't see why you think we are in disagreement. We're both saying that overclocking is a personal decision. I'm not advising anyone one way or the other ...

    -- Rod
    WebOS Internals and Preware Founder and Developer
    You may wish to donate by Paypal to donations @ webos-internals.org if you find our work useful.
    All donations go back into development.
    www.webos-internals.org twitter.com/webosinternals facebook.com/webosinternals
  16. #1476  
    WEBOS Repair utility does not mess with kernel correct?
  17. orizzle's Avatar
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    #1477  
    Quote Originally Posted by rsatmans View Post
    WEBOS Repair utility does not mess with kernel correct?
    no it just fixes everything YOU messed with
    Je fais ce que je veux avec mes cheveux!!! Sprint: Pre+ 2.1
  18. #1478  
    Quote Originally Posted by caj2008 View Post
    I have a strong mathematics background. I hate to get involved with guesswork which is based on varibales I cannot approximate. That is my only issue here.
    Thanks
    Yep, I 100% agree that there is no mathematical or factual basis for anyone to make a representation about what the projected lifetime of a Pre running at 800MHz might be. That's why I marked it as pure conjecture.

    The only factual projected long-term data that we have is from the manufacturer datasheet which specifies a reduction from 100K power-on-hours to 44K power-on-hours for the 720MHz mark, combined with the facts of the kernel patch which sets a 0.08v VDD1 voltage increase from 500MHz to 720MHz and then an additional 0.07v VDD1 voltage increase from 720MHz to 800MHz.

    And even those figures are only for the OMAP SoC and do not take into account any other devices inside the Pre which may or may not have a slower or faster degradation rate or may or may not be affected at all.

    For the SoC however, we have three points on a graph, which are clearly stated in the manufacturer datasheet:
    (a) 100K hours when the time at 600MHz is kept to less than 23K hours
    (b) 50K hours when operating continuously at 600MHz
    (c) 44K hours when operating continuously at 720MHz

    (note that (c) is a specification for a high-speed grade device, which the OMAP 3430 in the Pre is not)

    The fourth point on the graph (800MHz operation) is obviously somewhere equal to or less than 44K hours. How much less is pure conjecture, and as you clearly state (and I agree 100%) we have no solid mathematical foundation on which to estimate that 800MHz lifetime figure.

    -- Rod
    WebOS Internals and Preware Founder and Developer
    You may wish to donate by Paypal to donations @ webos-internals.org if you find our work useful.
    All donations go back into development.
    www.webos-internals.org twitter.com/webosinternals facebook.com/webosinternals
  19. bdubbx's Avatar
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    #1479  
    Quote Originally Posted by Demlor View Post
    As stated before, that has to do with the hardware of the phone.
    It has nothing to do with this patch.
    Plenty of people have had this issue before the 720 and 800MHz were even heard of around here.
    You might have to take it into the Sprint store to get a replacement phone to fix that issue.
    Thanks, Demlor. Sorry you had to repeat that statement, but I appreciate the response. I'm going to be removing all patches and heading to the store today!
  20. #1480  
    Quote Originally Posted by rsatmans View Post
    WEBOS Repair utility does not mess with kernel correct?
    WebOS Repair Utility does not currently check the kernel, no.

    Right now, it only scans program files and framework files
    If you've liked my software, please consider to towards future development.

    Developer of many apps such as: WebOS Quick Install, WebOS Theme Builder, Ipk Packager, Unified Diff Creator, Internalz Pro, ComicShelf HD, LED Torch, over 70 patches and more.

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