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  1. #61  
    Quote Originally Posted by DirkBelig View Post
    I've had the usual ups and downs with battery life, but had fallen into a predictable drainage pattern until this weekend when I put a bunch of Preware patches on and am now suddenly seeing 11-15%/hr. battery drain rates. While constantly web surfing on wifi the other night, it dropped 20% of its charge in ONE HOUR with screen brightness at 20%. I've had heavy usage days, but never that much even with using the EVDO radio.
    There's nothing unusual about that.

    Scrolling in landscape mode within the browser can get 90% battery drain OR MORE for any given instant.

    Even using the Browser Multi-Mod patch to get page up/down buttons outta the spacebar/period keys will get like 20% DPH for that given instant.

    Use the page up/down keys, and I assure you you will save a ton of battery life if you spend a lotta time in the browser.

    webOS is nothing but scrolling.... scrolling between open cards, scrolling between top & bottom pages of an app, scrolling drop-down menus, scrolling, scrolling, scrolling.... and now we've got fading too.

    When do the options for hotkeys replacing graphical effects come to webOS?? I'd prefer no scrolling (all page up/down buttons), but I do like the effect that the fade transition screens have... so those can stay. But I want more options for these effects, gad nammit!

    I'd be willing to bet that disabling that "flawless gravity effect while scrolling" would double the battery life. That gravity feature is just TOO good for a device with the same size battery as the Centro.
  2. Daemon's Avatar
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    #62  
    Quote Originally Posted by Wizzums View Post
    I realize prior to patch 1.4 that the phone would use EVDO when sleeping, even when it was supposed to use WiFi, but it still got me thinking.
    I think this detail here is the smoking gun.
    Prior to 1.3.5 when the phone went to sleep, it shut the Wifi radio off
    and used EVDO for background apps. In 1.3.5 they left the Wifi radio on
    while the phone sleeps but put it in a low power mode. In 1.4 they gave
    the user the option to choose whether Wifi radio is on while phone sleeps
    or not. Be sure to double check that setting.

    If you're seeing EVDO usage while the phone sleeps then this whole
    feature is totally broken. Perhaps a hardware problem with the
    Wifi radio itself. Or something about your Wifi network which is
    constantly breaking it every time it tries to wake up, which might
    also explain why it works normally when you're away from your home
    and work networks.

    The generally high battery drain pretty much comes from simply having
    one or the other of the data radios on all the time.
    The high data usage, I suspect comes from using "as items arrive"
    for Gmail which normally keeps a connection open all the time
    (even when the radio is sleeping), but that connection is being
    broken and reestablished over and over and over, and
    each time it's reestablished it's sending a big chunk of data across
    (possibly a full list of emails in your inbox). The constantly
    breaking and restablishing connection may also be why the account
    eventually stops working.

    I know most people stubbornly refuse to turn off "as items arrive"
    because "it always worked in the past" but I still suggest that anyone
    with that setting, and high battery drain, try switching to polling with a 30
    minute polling interval and see what happens. I now get literally *days*
    on standby, with two polling accounts. I've yet to hear of anyone
    who uses "as items arrive" that can come close to that.

    ian
  3. #63  
    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm View Post
    There's nothing unusual about that.
    There's plenty unusual about it, thus my post. While at work, waiting for stuff to happen, I'll frequently surf and tweet and have never seen such before-your-eyes drain like I was seeing Sunday night. Since I'm in the same places (home-work-g/f's) most of the time, I'm familiar with the behavior of the battery, so anomalous performance dives raise red flags pretty quickly.

    At this time, drain is 4.6%/hr and I'm at 73%, about 10% low for almost 4 hours of almost no use. I'll monitor it and see where it goes.
  4. #64  
    Quote Originally Posted by DirkBelig View Post
    There's plenty unusual about it, thus my post. While at work, waiting for stuff to happen, I'll frequently surf and tweet and have never seen such before-your-eyes drain like I was seeing Sunday night. Since I'm in the same places (home-work-g/f's) most of the time, I'm familiar with the behavior of the battery, so anomalous performance dives raise red flags pretty quickly.

    At this time, drain is 4.6%/hr and I'm at 73%, about 10% low for almost 4 hours of almost no use. I'll monitor it and see where it goes.
    First off... the Battery Monitor app isn't very useful unless you start AND end it exactly after a tick (say, from 91% to 90%)... or you at least leave it on ALL day long.

    Second off... yes, battery drain is DIRECTLY related to how much scrolling you do. I can view webpages all day long, on EVDO or WIFI without much battery drain.... but as soon as I start constantly scrolling on those pages, my battery life will drop.

    All I'm trying to get at is that if you saw 20% DPH... it was because you were scrolling (i.e. - dragging) more frequently than usual. Or you JUST opened up the Battery Monitor right before it dropped from 91% to 90%... or closed that the Battery Monitor right before it made that last tick from 51% to 50% or whatever.

    Scrolling in the Contacts app is an even greater energy hog than scrolling in the browser. Seriously.... if you scrolled from top to bottom of your contacts app for just an hour, it'd be dead no matter if it was full when you started the test or not. Scrolling is killer.
  5. #65  
    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm View Post
    Second off... yes, battery drain is DIRECTLY related to how much scrolling you do. I can view webpages all day long, on EVDO or WIFI without much battery drain.... but as soon as I start constantly scrolling on those pages, my battery life will drop.

    All I'm trying to get at is that if you saw 20% DPH... it was because you were scrolling (i.e. - dragging) more frequently than usual. Or you JUST opened up the Battery Monitor right before it dropped from 91% to 90%... or closed that the Battery Monitor right before it made that last tick from 51% to 50% or whatever.
    Sigh....

    1. What web sites are you visiting that don't require scrolling on a phone screen? www.midgetfleapr0n.com?

    B. Which part of my post where I said I would spend long periods at work surfing - and yes, SCROLLING - without the same power drain was unclear? It sure sounds like you think I'm too blinking stupid to know whether I've scrolled a whole lot more than I've done the past 9-1/2 months and can't restrain yourself from a patronizing tone.

    3. Where did I say that I was using the Battery Monitor in my initial observation? I didn't. You assumed. I pulled the phone off the charger and it was at 100%. I spent perhaps 20-30 minutes looking at Preware stuff and it dove to 90%. Spent another half-hour reading and ZOMG!!!! SCROLLING (AIIEEEEE!!!!!) and was at 80% according to the numerical readout I'd patched in.

    I've only explored what BM could reveal starting this afternoon after seeing this thread and realizing I had it installed. When I launched it, I was at 36%, having started work about 7 hours earlier with a 90% charge. I plugged it into my work charger and ran it up to 100% before taking it off around 7pm EST. It's now 4am EST, 9 hours later and with minimal use (just a few emails read and a 10-minute web surfing bout to see if wifi downloading was better after unthrottling it, it's reading:

    Interval (seconds): 300
    Initial Battery %: 36
    Current Battery %: 44
    Runtime: 11h31m28s
    Drain per Hour %: -0.69
    Remaining Life (hrs): 0.00 (huh?)

    I'm probably going to have to charge it on the way to work and then when I get there. Right now, I'll I've got running is BM and the wakeup alarm.
  6. Freshyz's Avatar
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    #66  
    Quote Originally Posted by Daemon View Post
    "As items arrive" = "push email" and it basically tries to keep a connection
    open to the mail server continuously so it can see the moment new stuff
    arrives. For a lot of people (maybe even all) this equates to much
    higher battery drain.
    ian
    I know I have read in the forums more than once that 'as item arrives' was the ideal setting for the average user as the phone is not always connected and that when the mail server gets an email, it then sends a signal to the phone to your inbox..?
    So in turn for minimal users such as myself, it theoretically worked better because there is no need to check every half-hour everyday for only a few emails received.


    Quote Originally Posted by bevcraw View Post
    I have my gmail set to push and my battery drain is about 1.5% per hour when idle. The secret is that I don't get many emails -- maybe 5 or so a day. If you get a lot of email, taking it off push will help save battery.
    I myself only average 2-3 emails a day and always used 'as item arrives' with mediocre battery life. I like getting the few emails I get when they were sent to me but I will try every 3 hours and see if things get better.
    --------
    I will also switch back to leaving Wi-Fi on all the time and see if that helps too. I wasn't sure which way was better and why but seeing as how it sounds like it was for the rare few that had independant issues with their router.. .
    "The problem is *some* people on *some* Wifi networks can't get
    their Wifi radios to go to sleep. It stays active 100% of the time
    which pulls a lot more juice. Wifi is more efficient, but is a waste
    if it's on but not being used for anything 99% of the time.
    Palm couldn't figure out how to fix whatever is causing that problem
    so they simply added an option in 1.4 to allow you to revert to
    pre-1.3.5 behavior with that new toggle. Put the phone to sleep, it
    turns the Wifi radio off. "
    Last edited by Freshyz; 03/17/2010 at 04:53 AM.
    Everybody wants some!..
  7. #67  
    14 hours off the charger. 16% battery left. BM reports 1.16% DPH and 14.7 hours Remaining Life. Not even!
  8. Daemon's Avatar
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    #68  
    Quote Originally Posted by Freshyz View Post
    I know I have read in the forums more than once that 'as item arrives' was the ideal setting for the average user as the phone is not always connected and that when the mail server gets an email, it then sends a signal to the phone to your inbox..?
    So in turn for minimal users such as myself, it theoretically worked better because there is no need to check every half-hour everyday for only a few emails received.
    I've heard this theory many times as well but it's more conjecture
    than reality. The problem is, it doesn't doesn't hold true for a lot
    of people. Many many people have have high battery drain problems
    and switched from "as items arrive" to polling, and seen a significant
    improvement. I've never seen it work the other way around. *Some*
    people are ok with "as items arrive" but I suspect it's because they have
    stable networks that allow their phone to hold the IMAP connection open
    indefinitely without ever having to reconnect.

    Push email ("as items arrive") doesn't mean that the server contacts the
    phone only when new messages arrive. That is not part of the IMAP
    protocol and is basically impossible because the Pre's data radios don't
    answer to incoming connections while the phone is asleep. The way push
    email works, the phone opens a connection to the email server and holds
    it open forever, even while it sleeps, and there's a signaling method that
    allows it to wake up only when a message arrives. Problem is, if some
    external factor breaks that connection (firewall or mail server time outs..
    etc), then the phone has to wake up and reestablish the connection over
    and over, and I suspect that for some high drain folks this is happening
    at a relatively short interval (every minute or two) which keeps
    the data radio active all the time, and that's why switching to polling
    at a longer interval helps.

    Beyond that though, I am proof that polling does not cause significant
    battery drain. I can get 60 hours of standby between charges
    with Wifi on all the time and I have two polling email accounts.
    Do you know anyone who can match or beat that with "as items arrive"?

    I don't understand why people will waste days arguing about this
    rather than simply trying it. It may or may not help, but I promise it
    won't hurt.

    ian
    Last edited by Daemon; 03/17/2010 at 12:18 PM.
  9. #69  
    Quote Originally Posted by DirkBelig View Post
    Sigh....

    1. What web sites are you visiting that don't require scrolling on a phone screen? www.midgetfleapr0n.com?

    B. Which part of my post where I said I would spend long periods at work surfing - and yes, SCROLLING - without the same power drain was unclear? It sure sounds like you think I'm too blinking stupid to know whether I've scrolled a whole lot more than I've done the past 9-1/2 months and can't restrain yourself from a patronizing tone.

    3. Where did I say that I was using the Battery Monitor in my initial observation? I didn't. You assumed. I pulled the phone off the charger and it was at 100%. I spent perhaps 20-30 minutes looking at Preware stuff and it dove to 90%. Spent another half-hour reading and ZOMG!!!! SCROLLING (AIIEEEEE!!!!!) and was at 80% according to the numerical readout I'd patched in.

    I've only explored what BM could reveal starting this afternoon after seeing this thread and realizing I had it installed. When I launched it, I was at 36%, having started work about 7 hours earlier with a 90% charge. I plugged it into my work charger and ran it up to 100% before taking it off around 7pm EST. It's now 4am EST, 9 hours later and with minimal use (just a few emails read and a 10-minute web surfing bout to see if wifi downloading was better after unthrottling it, it's reading:

    Interval (seconds): 300
    Initial Battery %: 36
    Current Battery %: 44
    Runtime: 11h31m28s
    Drain per Hour %: -0.69
    Remaining Life (hrs): 0.00 (huh?)

    I'm probably going to have to charge it on the way to work and then when I get there. Right now, I'll I've got running is BM and the wakeup alarm.
    Patronizing, eh? How very hypocritical.

    All I mentioned were two things, which you still have not managed to pick up on yet. LAST TIME....

    1) Battery Monitor and even your own calculations are inaccurate unless you wait to start until right after a tick... AND you also have to end right after you see a tick. That's all I was getting at. If you start right before a tick, and end right after a tick... you're going to see quicker DPH than you actually experienced. It is not possible to get an accurate reading until you start AND end your calculations RIGHT AFTER a tick.

    2) As for scrolling, I do not HAVE to do such a thing on ANY website, especially midgetpr0n.com or whatever. In fact, I *never* scroll because of the Browser Multi-Mod patch which enables page up/down buttons with the spacebar/period keys. THAT is what I was offering you... a real life suggestion to beat high battery drain. Download that, and then you can "scroll" (i.e. - use page up/down buttons) ALL DAY LONG, and you will not experience anywhere CLOSE to the DPH experienced from a flick on the touchscreen with perfect gravity effect. What I was trying to explain to you, which you thought was patronizing... was that THERE IS AN OPTION TO NOT SCROLL! THERE IS A FEATURE THAT HELPS YOUR BATTERY DRAIN IMMENSELY.

    Did you just skip over all that or what?

    I flat out said... scrolling in the browser gets 90% DPH for seconds at a time. Scrolling in the contacts list gets a lot more than 90% for seconds at a time. But using the page up/down buttons gets 20% for a millisecond. I guess you weren't interested in cold hard facts, solutions...

    Hence, my very first line to you... "There's nothing unusual about that." People experience great battery life until they start tapping and flicking. It always happens like that... "I actually used my phone for a couple hours today, and the drain rate was 40x greater than when I usually leave it in my pocket all afternoon." It's DIRECTLY related to the scrolling. Just take my word for it, and then prove me wrong if you can. HINT, HINT: Browser Multi-Mod patch.
  10. #70  
    Let me try real short sentences:

    * For 9 months I use my phone scrolling like a caveman getting fingerprints on the screen but getting predictable battery life results.

    * The only times I've experienced noticeably reduced life have been the September incident with the downloaded apps or when I've been in a location where it kept jumping from 1x to EVDO to the point the phone got warm. Until now, that is.

    * After loading patches, I noticed a 20% battery loss FROM THE DIGITAL READOUT IN THE UPPER-RIGHT CORNER, not from Battery Monitor catching "ticks" or fleas or not. At 2 am, I pulled it off the charger with 100% charge and by 3 am it was down to 80% with nothing out of the ordinary in how I was using it and I was in a familiar location.

    Understand? I didn't lose all this performance because I'm getting my grubby mitts on the screen. Looking at the phone now after 9 hours, it's down to 33% with very light use and Battery Monitor is claiming a 1.21% DPH and 26.41 hrs. of remaining life, a number that could be sprinkled on flowers to make them grow. This is where I'd expect it to be after 14 hours with substantial usage.

    SOMETHING is causing this sudden drain; most likely one of the patches, but which one? OTOH, I had a simple game and/or concert finder kill my battery before, so it looks like trial and error in removing patches is the only way to go. What suckage. I was hoping for a suggestion and maybe a tip, but instead you've given lectures and attitude based on your ignoring what I was saying so you could harp on this browser mod.

    You've refused to understand that 250+ days of using, charging, rinsing, and repeating has established a certain performance expectation. The first step in troubleshooting is to look at the last thing that changed and that's the patches. If you've got nothing to suggest but adding more patches, then it's best you stop helping cuz it's like saying that someone who's been hit by three cars needs a fourth to hit them.

    EDIT: I've removed Battery Icon and Percent and Device Menu Ultramix, replacing the latter with Device Menu Remix with Flashlight and we'll see how that goes.
    Last edited by DirkBelig; 03/17/2010 at 10:08 PM.
  11. #71  
    I think there is something funny going on with the 1.4 update. I have seen drainage fluctuate between 2-3%/hour on standby with Wifi all the way to 20%/hour all other things being equal. I think some bug was introduced in 1.4 that causes the phone to get into a bad state that causes the drainage. I have a feeling that whatever is causing the unusually high data usage on Wizzums' phone is probably the culprit. Unfortunately, I don't know how to associate data usage to an app or process running on the Pre, particularly since WebOS apps probably share the same Linux process in order to identify the culprit.
  12. #72  
    Quote Originally Posted by DirkBelig View Post
    Understand?
    No.

    Need shorter sentences.

    Please.

    Actually, yes... the two biggest battery savers are most definitely PATCHES!!

    (1) Browser Multi-Mod; used for page up/down keys.
    (2) Device Menu MegaMix ; used to dim brightness and disable Data/GPS/etc.

    Disable the Phone Data and then you can tell if you're still getting 20 ticks an hour or whatever. You just said your "digital readout" dropped 20 ticks, but you didn't say how long... so 20 ticks is not a rate.

    Using those two patches, tho... you can dim the screen brightness, disable GPS, disable phone data, and then see if you're still draining at the same rate, which would be virtually impossible. Then compare the damage done from a couple hours of flicking in the browser versus using spacebar/period keys w/ Multi-Mod patch.
  13. Daemon's Avatar
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    #73  
    Quote Originally Posted by DirkBelig View Post
    Interval (seconds): 300
    Initial Battery %: 36
    Current Battery %: 44
    Runtime: 11h31m28s
    Drain per Hour %: -0.69
    Remaining Life (hrs): 0.00 (huh?)

    I'm probably going to have to charge it on the way to work and then when I get there. Right now, I'll I've got running is BM and the wakeup alarm.
    Ignore the whole "ticks" thing. It doesn't matter if you run BM for
    more than 20-30 minutes during normal usage.
    The problem I see above is that you left BM running from before a charge
    to after a charge, so it's literally calculating negative drain. The %/hr
    calculation is based on initial and current % over the entire time
    BM has been running. To use BM effectively, leave it running while
    it's charging until BM reports actual % as close to 100% as possible
    (notice that UI % may report 100% even when actual % is at 95%.
    That's a native feature that protects the battery from overcharging
    but it means the UI% you see in the corner cannot be trusted at all.)
    When it's fully charged, pull the phone off the charger, close BM and
    re-open it. That will reset the initial % to whatever the fully charged
    % is. From then on, everything you see is actual drain rate.

    It actually is quite possible for "normal browsing" to burn more than
    20%/hr. 1.4's web rendering is also measurably faster than before so it's
    literally possible to burn through more web pages in the same amount
    of time, and thus use a bit more juice. Likewise since all normal WebOS
    apps are actually web based, faster movement through apps
    will burn more juice.

    Most battery threads are about poor drain during mostly standby period,
    because it's almost impossible to judge what the drain should be
    during normal activity because it can be very high.

    ian
  14. Freshyz's Avatar
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    #74  
    Thank you for the thorough explanations of how this all really works. I continue to see debates about this each way and today have tried polling @ every 3 hours with seemingly a little better results. I stream music a lot so its hard for me to tell but I'll keep and eye on it for a week or so and see what results I get. Thanks as well for defining the difference between the 2 Wi-Fi sleep settings.. .


    60 hours eh? Is that with a stock 1150 battery and strictly on stand by? How often do you have your email checking your inbox out of curiosity?
    Quote Originally Posted by Daemon View Post
    Beyond that though, I am proof that polling does not cause significant
    battery drain. I can get 60 hours of standby between charges
    with Wifi on all the time and I have two polling email accounts.
    Do you know anyone who can match or beat that with "as items arrive"?
    ian
    Everybody wants some!..
  15. Daemon's Avatar
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    #75  
    Quote Originally Posted by Freshyz View Post
    60 hours eh? Is that with a stock 1150 battery and strictly on stand by? How often do you have your email checking your inbox out of curiosity?
    Stock battery, and that's standby mostly in a Wifi environment with
    some time around town on EVDO each day. 2 email accounts polling at
    30 minutes. I read the emails I receive (dozen a day or so). No calls.
    Screen brightness at 20%. GPS off (although GPS isn't nearly
    as bad as it used to be).
    I've seen 60 hours of standby on both 1.3.5 and 1.4.
    More practical usage includes a couple short calls, and some web browsing
    and occasional use of Google Maps, and I generally don't have to worry
    about charging for 36 hours.

    You mentioned streaming. It's pretty expensive.
    Pandora draws about 120-140mA which is a bit more than 10%/hr.
    All the other pure streaming audio apps draw 170-200mA (14-17%/hr)
    because they don't have access to the same streaming
    API calls in the palm lib that Pandora does.
    Drain will be higher while streaming on EVDO.

    ian
  16. Freshyz's Avatar
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    #76  
    Quote Originally Posted by Daemon View Post
    You mentioned streaming. It's pretty expensive.
    Pandora draws about 120-140mA which is a bit more than 10%/hr.
    All the other pure streaming audio apps draw 170-200mA (14-17%/hr)
    because they don't have access to the same streaming
    API calls in the palm lib that Pandora does.
    Drain will be higher while streaming on EVDO.
    ian
    Wow pretty impressive and worth bragging about.
    Thanks for the breakdown on the music streaming draws. I usually use Pandora or Broadcast Radio and BR does drain more noticeably. At home I always stream over Wi-Fi with Data off which is tolerable in battery drain but when I'm out and about I definitely will need a top off before the day is done. I'm going to invest in the Mugen 1400 battery soon as I'm sure my stock 1150 is quite toasted from heavy use since June6 being overly taxed with all the good and bad that we've experienced since launch day.
    ( kinda wack that refurbs don't come with new batteries. I'm on my 5th Pre but my first battery )
    Everybody wants some!..
  17. #77  
    I'd like to thank Daemon for actually providing USEFUL INFORMATION instead of being deliberately obtuse, nattering on about "ticks" and being generally stuck on stupid, incapable of comprehending clear declarative sentences detailing specifics. I suspected that I may be incorrectly running BM, but it's not as if there are step-by-step instructions in the app. I noticed that the standard battery level reading was higher than BM's, but thought it may be a BM glitch.

    I'll top off the battery before I go to bed and shut down/restart BM as you suggested. Thank you.
  18. #78  
    HOPE THIS HELPS SOMEONE....I noticed my battery was draining fairly rapidly and decided to remove individual patches with the hope that one of them was causing the issue....no dice.... also ran the webosrepair but no problems found. Then a couple days ago I noticed that my battery only charged to 87% overnight. I decided to check the backup and lo and behold, when I ran it, it just sat there "preparing" and did nothing else. I turned the backup off and then back on and the backup ran through. Since doing this, the battery drain has stopped and the battery usage seems to be normal again. Also, overnight charging is making it up to 100% and staying there. Seems the backup was stuck "preparing" each time it tried to run and just drained the battery.
  19. #79  
    A quick update, after my last post I broke down and decided to do a WebOS Doctor wipe and restore from my latest (previously working) Palm Profile that I had disabled backups on. Essentially, I started over. I removed my gmail account from the phone completely, sync'd with Google (for contacts only - ~30 contacts), turned off all location settings and didn't setup any IM accounts. I decided to NOT use my WiFi at home, just left it to feed off EVDO.

    I woke up at about 8:45 AM, removed it from the charger at 100%. It's now 2:30 PM and I've already drained the battery down to ~9%, charged it back to 100% and removed it again. I'm at 70% now. That's a little over 120% battery in less than 6 hours, not counting the time it took to go from 9%-100% charge this morning.

    Here's my data usage since a couple hours before my last post on the 16th. Keep in mind this is without downloading any apps, restoring anything beyond contacts from Google and NO email:

    1,063,170 kb - 10:57 AM 3/16/10
    1,076,800 kb - 12:55 PM 3/17/10
    1,120,250 kb - 10:58 AM 3/18/10
    1,125,158 kb - 02:09 PM 3/18/10

    For anyone else with Sprint, are these numbers typical? Light email usage = 2 GB of data in a month?
  20. Daemon's Avatar
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    #80  
    I can't say if that usage is typical without knowing how
    else you're actively using the phone. 60MB in 2 days is
    certainly in the realm of possibility, but you shouldn't
    see that just sleeping all the time.
    The battery drain rate though indicates that your data radio is
    active pretty much on all the time.

    I've gone into a root shell and looked at netstat -s statistics
    while my Pre sleeps and it stays pretty much totally idle.

    The good news though is that your problem is so constant
    and so bad that it should be possible to see what's wrong
    in realtime if you want to dig into it. For instance /var/log/messages
    may show what it's up to. Or netstat itself may show constant
    open connections to somewhere.
    Or top may show a process burning a lot of CPU all the time.
    I generally find the easiest way to monitor this sort of stuff is
    to install the Dropbear SSH service and connect to my Pre via
    Wifi from my desktop using putty client.

    ian
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