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  1. #61  
    Quote Originally Posted by milominderbinder View Post
    KIS. I give one code that is referenced the most. They type it once.
    They might need to type it more than once if they swap their Pre for 4 or 5 times... or just have to restart from scratch on your original Pre... or switch to another webOS phone. Highly unlikely that most webOS users will only need to type that in once in their lifetime. "webos20090606" is just the better option. Unless you work for Konami, there's no reason to want people typing a dev code that's 3 times longer than an equivalent dev code.

    Quote Originally Posted by milominderbinder View Post
    After discussion the decision was to give that link, not reinvent it.
    Well... like I said, those two sentences were the only part of the guide that I have actually recommend you add. It's about WOQI, and it's something that n00bs are guaranteed to ask later on down the line in threads. It should be in there. Not sure what discussion you were taking part in, but I'm right here if you couldn't see me the first time I said something.

    Quote Originally Posted by milominderbinder View Post
    In the Patches section it tells how to remove "...a patch or theme that just won't uninstall..."
    Great. Where does it say what to do if you update before remembering to remove patches/themes? Does it say you need to (A) reboot, (B) reinstall, or (C) ask P|C members if there's any way they can go back in time?? D! It doesn't tell you what to do in that accident.

    Quote Originally Posted by milominderbinder View Post
    It is not true that WOSQI is even compatible with all OSes so I will not say that.
    Yea, figured that out a long time ago. I wouldn't have had such confusion if it hadn't singled out Linux. Even tho I had seen the java section, the guide only mentioned Windows & Mac... so the guide would've saved me a ton of time if you had just stated up front that "This is a java application which an be installed on any desktop operating system. As long as you have version 1.6, you're good to skip on to the next step."

    That saves a ton.

    Quote Originally Posted by milominderbinder View Post
    Each step is critical. They would all need to be in red. This step shows the screen you will see. If they don't get the screen, they know something is wrong.
    You keep bringing up old stuff. Already said that a different step to "plug into usb port..." would suffice in bringing its own attention. Just like every other step needs its own attention.

    And just like you say "each step is critical", that's why there should be MORE steps. Things are too jammed together. You might as well write an essay instead of listing if you're only gonna have a whole 2 real steps. Make it a list or make it an essay.

    Quote Originally Posted by milominderbinder View Post
    If you won't follow the guide, all we can do is pick up the pieces later. How can you give feedback for a user guide if you are not using the guide?
    I read the guide. I ran into multiple problems from my understanding of your words alone, which is what you wanted to hear, right? You have no interest in correcting the guide to alleviate problems.

    Quote Originally Posted by milominderbinder View Post
    It is mentioned twice, once in bold and once not in bold. If the user skips steps, again all we can do is pick up the pieces later.
    No, you could mention it a third time where it's actually relevant and you haven't mentioned before. (i.e. - what to do if you forget to remove patches/themes before updating webOS)

    Quote Originally Posted by milominderbinder View Post
    Sun will not say to update Java if they already have the newest version. There is no downside to updating if asked. If it says update, update. KIS.
    It's more far simpler to tell the user to skip to the next step, wouldn't you agree. Far less steps.

    Quote Originally Posted by milominderbinder View Post
    That is content for a Dummies Guide to Computers and beyond our scope.
    It's only a decent hint to suggest they create a folder just for the WOQI applet, to save them from discovering it on their own. But I can tell you don't like going straight from pointA to pointB.

    Quote Originally Posted by milominderbinder View Post
    It tells in two places what happens if you use the webOS Doctor. The consequences are the same no matter what subdirectory it is in. If you mean that a desktop computer is needed, that is not true either. Many use laptops.
    No arguing with that. From my point of view, tho... I get a .deb file when running WOQI, so all this time, I see Novacom and am thinking that's the name of the terminal app for the Pre. At this point, I couldn't continue and had to break down and read the WOQI thread, which I shouldn't have needed to do [but am glad I did, because I would've missed a couple key nuggets].

    Quote Originally Posted by milominderbinder View Post
    The Panic Button is shown in the image just below the words Panic Button.
    I don't see it when I open WOQI, tho. Think it has something to do with me not having the USB plugged in before I ran WOQI.

    Quote Originally Posted by milominderbinder View Post
    That is not ture. Novacom can be installed in other subdirectories. I already do state that Novacom does have to be installed on your computer.
    You couldn't infer what I was meaning by desktop, when I said:

    "- novacom must be installed on your desktop (not pre), and the desktop might even need to be restarted."???

    It's clear what I'm referring to. It's clear when you say "install novacom to your desktop", because you just don't install anything to your "desktop folder". Laptop is clearly implied when someone says "desktop operating system", which is how I was thinking of it it and am sure you understood it... otherwise you wouldn't have chopped off the rest of that thought. When you say install novacom to my computer and I get my first .deb, it's a possibility that you mean install to my Pre by adding it into the WOQI app with the green plus arrow and then hitting the Install button. When I read thru the forum & saw "Novacom" mentioned all the time, I was assuming it was the terminal for the Pre. I get a .deb and it takes me a tad longer to realize what I'm doing.

    But you can turn my words for "desktop [operating system]" into whatever you'd like. It's looking like I would've saved more time just forking your guide by now... but this is kinda fun, so what the hay...

    Quote Originally Posted by milominderbinder View Post
    That is a good idea and added as part of the first step in Getting Help. But laptops are OK too.
    Laptops run a desktop operating system.

    Quote Originally Posted by milominderbinder View Post
    That has been there all along in the Getting Help section.
    Should be at the "getting WOQI to work" section, tho. It helps with flow, since I'm sure there will be a ton of people running thru your steps that hit problems around that area. Flow is key. No need to jerk me around. Seems like that's your intent, just about.

    Quote Originally Posted by milominderbinder View Post
    It specifically states that another article will address Preware and give the link if they want to follow the 10 steps to installing Preware now.
    That's just great.. but Preware is pretty self-explanatory. And installing Preware will prolly be the first thing most people install after they get WOQI working. So... knowing this... it seems like you'd want to alleviate any speed bumps along the way, right?

    Just seems like making things as easy as possible is not the goal, tho... is it?

    Quote Originally Posted by milominderbinder View Post
    Step 1 takes under a minute. Step 3 is just to run WOSQI.
    Novacom does not need to be installed on the desktop. Just let WOQI install it in the right place.
    You even said yourself that the steps are critical, so why not break them down? That's what lists are for. And java should be step one, not the other way around.

    1. verify java (if at 1.6, skip to step 2); 2. "webos20090606", switch on, & restart; 3. create folder anywhere on desktopOS, download WOQI to that folder; 4. plug in usb, select "just charge"; 5. run app and follow these most obvious pics... (novacom will be installed to your desktopOS and possibly restarted... also, make sure not to run the Doctor; WOQI will run the Doc only if/when you need it... if you hit an error, read the troubleshooting guide now); 6. install PMS/preware; 7. thanks for playing. enjoy your pre.

    That's straight from where I was to where I needed to be. Would've taken ONE MINUTE to get that across *and* to put those steps to use with no hiccups whatsoever.

    Quote Originally Posted by milominderbinder View Post
    It is mentioned in the Getting Help section.
    Right... but placement of that one link is pretty important. Why not make the transitions flow instead of unnecessary jumps?
    Last edited by grndslm; 11/11/2009 at 08:47 PM.
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    #62  
    Quote Originally Posted by luish8s View Post
    how do you remove the virtual keyboard
    I'll assume you're using WebOS Quick Installer. Open QI, go to Tools > Device Management > Patches. Check the box next to the virtual keyboard and click uninstall.
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    #63  
    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm View Post
    Oh, gee, thanks... guess you really didn't want the n00bs' opinions after all.
    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm View Post
    You have no interest in correcting the guide to alleviate problems.
    That's . Craig has incorporated every good suggestion he has received. It's been obvious that you're intent on turning this article into something it was never meant to be. If you want to produce a primer, go to it. No one here will be offended.
  4. #64  
    Well.. I can't see the changes that he has made. And there's a reason for all the changes I'm suggesting.

    I don't understand the purpose of this guide if it isn't to get as many people understanding how homebrew works in the shortest time as possible. And if you're gonna focus on on WOQI, but not want to add two lines describing how you can manually add patches that aren't in the feeds... then I'd say there are other priorities than getting people started with WOQI.
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    #65  
    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm View Post
    Well.. I can't see the changes that he has made.
    If I recall correctly, Craig made every change I suggested with one exception: he decided not to include the .patch info. After reading Eric's comment on my suggestion, I withdrew my suggestion. Installing .patch patches found in the Forums is not basic. I agree with Craig that it's not "getting started" material. Others made more significant contributions, and I think he took a couple of your suggestions as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm View Post
    I don't understand the purpose of this guide if it isn't to get as many people understanding how homebrew works in the shortest time as possible.
    This guide is not intended to get as many people as possible understanding Homebrew, patches, and themes. This is a quick, visual guide to installing an app. If people want to increase their understanding, there are many resources already available to them. This guide was not meant to replicate those available resources.
    Last edited by cas_esq; 11/12/2009 at 12:47 AM.
  6. #66  
    Look... this quick, visible guide didn't help me get started with jack. What more do you need to understand about that? Take my word for it... the guide could save each and every person who reads it a lot of time. We could be talking tens or hundreds of man-hours, depending on how many n00bs actually find it who haven't found the homebrew party yet.

    Nobody said the thing had to be comprehensive. But if you're not gonna mention the installation of Preware [and PMS], then at least mention how to use QI to install patches from the forum not yet found in the feeds. It takes an extra sentence or two... so I'm not sure what the problem is. If you want to point people over to the WOQI thread, then throw this guide in the trash. The point of this guide is to get the common denominator of homebrew information... the straight line, if you will.

    And that's why this...

    1. verify java (if at 1.6, skip to step 2); 2. "webos20090606", switch on, & restart; 3. create folder anywhere on desktopOS, download WOQI to that folder; 4. plug in usb, select "just charge"; 5. run app and follow these most obvious pics... (novacom will be installed to your desktopOS and possibly restarted... also, make sure not to run the Doctor; WOQI will run the Doc only if/when you need it... if you hit an error, read the troubleshooting guide now); 6. install PMS/preware; 7. thanks for playing. enjoy your pre.
    ... would have ANY n00b installing homebrew in less than 5 min (just a couple min more than it takes them to restart their Pre). Not so with the original getting started guide, and it leaves a lot of desirable information out at the expense of... well, actually... I can't figure out why you would want to leave out an important warning of why you shouldn't run webosDoctor directly from the desktopOS. And why not distribute the links where they actually belong, instead of having all the good stuff at the end? Why not link to the troubleshooting guide for errors at the point when people will actually see the errors?

    As for now, my explanations absolutely don't matter... so I'll write up my own version of a Getting Started guide, and we'll see which one n00bs think gets them going quicker and provides them with adequate knowledge. 'Bout to go shoot some pool for now, tho... so maybe I'll write this after I'm sheet-faced.

    Cheers.
  7.    #67  
    Thank you to everyone for so much help!

    I went back through my notes and see that based on your posts and PM'es I made 41 changes, additions, and deletions.

    Thank you all for taking so much time with this. I am including this not in the article:

    Special thanks to Jason Robitaille, rwhitby, bpdamas, cas_esq, Colonel Angus, dBsooner, emoney_33, grndslm, Irish, jimhuff, maxima2k53, MortiseMaker, oil, pixielee, rlanza1054, Shadavis08, SirWill, smkcpa, stubbs, Templarian, wcarlson, west3man and so many others for your continued support for new users.
    Hopefully soon it will be an article on the front page!

    Mortisemaker, I am especially excited about your new detailed PDF's. I will link to them directly as soon as they are ready.

    Again, to everyone, thank you!

    - Craig
  8. #68  
    Mine's better.

    But I can definitely understand who yours is targeted to now. So both are nice.

    EDIT: Why can't I get the link to work in step 5e? I can't figure it out. P|C always screws that one link up for some reason even tho I'm definitely copying it properly.

    EDIT2: Nevermind, it's finally working after an hour.
  9.    #69  
    I just added this:

    Please see PreCentral member Mortisemaker's excellent Installing and Getting Started with WebOS Quick Install for 45 pages of detailed help.

    Wow, Mortisemaker! That is the best detailed work. There are 45 pages and over 100 screenshots detailing every step.

    Wow!

    Thank you!

    So my suggestion is to use this Getting Started as your basic Getting Started. If you hit a snag or just want to learn more, Mortisemaker has updated his 45 page Instruction Manual.

    - Craig
    Last edited by milominderbinder; 11/14/2009 at 01:09 PM.
  10. #70  
    Good God. There's like, what, 12 different guides to Quick Install now?
  11. #71  
    Thank you for taking the time to post all of this. Im new to this and your post helped me out A LOT!!! Thanks agian.
  12. #72  
    when i finish downloading the quick installer, and press the third button down, it doesnt do anything... please help!

    Thank you :-)
  13. #73  
    Follow the directions in my sig... particularly steps 2 & 5d.
  14. #74  
    your sig... im probably just blind from staring at a computer all day but maybe a copy and paste is in order haha. sorry!
  15.    #76  
    Quote Originally Posted by dradawetz View Post
    when i finish downloading the quick installer, and press the third button down, it doesnt do anything... please help!

    Thank you :-)
    That probably means the computer is not finding the phone. What happens when you click Tools>Device Management?

    Do you have developer mode on?

    When you put the phone in USB Mode does it show up as a hard drive on your computer?

    What kind of computer is it?

    But please post WebOS Quick Install questions in that thread as the opening post asks. That is where everyone is...

    Thanks,

    - Craig
  16.    #77  
    Thank you all for your continued ideas. As we are finishing up the article we have made a number of additional improvements based of your ideas. Most are to expand a point. Here are some of the highlights. In particular thank you to grndslm for several of the last ideas.

    Developer Mode (added verbiage)
    "If you're having trouble getting it right, you can also enter "webos20090606 though if you ask us the Konami code is much more fun."

    "Your phone will restart."

    "Some leave Developer Mode on all the time, but technically it's a security risk, so we recommend that you reopen Developer Mode Enabler and turn it off when you're done."

    Java (Note that an update may not be needed)
    "Let it update Java as needed."

    Initial WOSQI Installation
    (Added suggestion whereto store files on computer)
    "Right click on the Download Here link then Save Target to a location you will remember such as "Palm"."

    (Make sure Java is the default program for jar files)
    "After the WebOSQuickInstall.jar file downlaods, click Open Folder then right-click the WebOSQuickInstall.jar file and click Open With and make sure that the default program is Java."

    "WebOS Quick Install will download and install both Palm's webOS Doctor and Novacom software on your computer for you, so the initial launch may take a while."

    Homebrew (refined, added note on type of computer supported)
    "You can click the homebrew apps button (bottom left) to browse through the PreCentral Homebrew Gallery. When you find an app you like, click the third button down on the right (highlight with the arrow) to open the repository viewer."

    "Connect the USB cable to your PC, Mac, or Linux computer and select "Just Charge" when the phone prompts you."

    "Option: click on the App title, Music Player (Remix), to learn more about the app (below) and then click Close when done."

    "Check the box next to Music Player (Remix) and click Download. You can check off and download several apps at once if you so desire."

    Patches (Explain what Luna is.)
    "The first screen (System Mods) has many of the most popular patches. Just check off the ones you want and click Restart Luna to restart your Pre or Pixi. Luna is the webOS user interface and must be restarted for patches to be applied."

    Themes (How to remove a theme added)
    "And just as easy as that, you have chosen a new theme. Click Revert to Default to remove the theme."

    "NOTE: Always make sure that you uninstall a new theme before installing a newer one. Failure to do so can result in ugly."

    Removing Apps, Patches, and Themes (Warning about webOS Doctor strengthened)
    "Stuck Patches - If you have a patch or theme that just won't uninstall, you can always use the WebOS Repair Utility. Click Option and then Override Compatibility. Or you can use Preware. You can also restore factory settings by using the WebOS Doctor to remove all personal data. And by all, we mean all."

    Getting Help (better detail on the 45 page WOSQI manual)
    "PreCentral member Mortisemaker has put together an excellent Installing and Getting Started with WebOS Quick Install guide with 45 pages of detailed help. In addition, more forum members are always available to provide aide in the PreCentral forums. In particular, Windows 7, European, and GSM users may need some extra support."

    (Clarified how to get help.)
    "If you ask for help in a forum, please explain the problem and what you have done. If possible, take a phone screen shot by pressing Option (orange) + Sym + P at the same time. Connect your phone to your computer using the USB cable and select USB Drive - your phone will appear to your computer like a USB drive. When you make your post on the forum, click Manage Attachments to add the screen shot from the phone's screencaptures subdirectory."

    Again, thank you to everyone who keeps offering such great ideas.

    And as always if anyone posts requests for help here, please refer them to the WebOS Quick Install or Preware threads.
    Last edited by milominderbinder; 11/20/2009 at 05:09 PM.
  17. #78  
    1. Please, be aware that on large resolutions (1600x1200) on Kubuntu WebOS QI screen gets crippled - meaning of buttons is not visible (c image attached).

    2. I do not see list of apps availabe in Online Repository, as you describe here. E.g., there is no Virtual keyboard in my list...
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Erix (a.k.a. Rednex)
    IBM WorkPad 20x-> IBM WorkPad 30x -> Palm V -> Trēo 180g -> Trēo 270 -> Trēo 600 -> Trēo 650 -> Palm Prē
  18. #79  
    Wow... On Ubuntu, I don't even see the "Web browser ad blocker". It's pretty messed up.

    I guess Java isn't as cross-platform friendly as I thought.

    Hope it gets fixed, but you'd be best to tell the developer directly in the WOSQI thread.
  19. #80  
    music player looks awesome
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