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  1. #41  
    And finally...

    - you only need java 1.6, so might as well say that near the "verify java" link. no sense in downloading the newest version if you've already got what ya need!
    - make a new folder (like "pre") just to put QI in, because it will install things like webos doctor, novacom, and any other homebrew, tweak, or patch that you choose to download.
    - DO NOT run webosdoctor.jar (or .exe) from your desktop!! WebOS QI will handle all of that. (i think; i still dunno why i don't see the "Panic button: ..")
    - novacom must be installed on your desktop (not pre), and the desktop might even need to be restarted.
    - if you run into any problems here, now would be the time to read the WebOS QI troubleshooting guide in its entirety.
    - install package manager service alongside preware, and you should be all set!!

    AHEM... I think my job here is done.

    This guide will be quite a bit more condensed than the PDF guides. Time to pat ourselves on the back.
    ... and drink a beer!

    Then we can put it on the front page when we can do all this while we're plastered.
    Last edited by grndslm; 11/08/2009 at 07:46 AM.
  2.    #42  
    Oh my! Thank you for such thoughtful feedback!
    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm View Post
    - In the intro, what does "save your battery" mean?!? Didn't know I was gonna lose it.
    I added a sentence listing this and some of the other popular apps under the Homebrew Apps section. Great catch.
    - Add "webos20090606" right behind the Konami code.
    If this were the comprehensive reference piece that would be true. This is intended to be the least possible words needed to get a new user started. This is for some soccer mom or dad who just wants to do this with as little as possible. They don't want to know all of the ways, just one. You and I read our owners manuals. The typical user doesn't know they have an owners manual. To make the target audiance more clear, I added a note that this is a "basic getting started guide."
    - Mention that there's no Linux support for WebOS QI and that Windows or OS X are required.
    There is Linux support.
    - "But wait, there are still more patches to be found at PreCentral Patch Forum! It's important to realize that these patches aren't even "unofficially" supported, so you must also understand that you're doing this at YOUR OWN RISK. When these patches are accepted into Preware, it would be best to uninstall the alpha patch thru WebOS Quick Install and THEN install thru Preware. You can save a .patch file to your computer and then in WebOS Quick Install click the + button to add it and then click Install. Done! More details can be found here."
    - Perhaps mention that QI can't uninstall Preware installs and vice-versa (Preware can't uninstall QI installs).
    This has to be the least words possible to get someone up and running. I have to leave this for the other thread.
    - Make sure to remove the "By the time you read this, " right before "WebOS QI should be able to easily restore the original Palm theme"... and edit the rest to make sense in that context.
    Right now, that button is still grayed out in 2.82. How do you restore the original Palm theme with 2.8.2?
    - What happens if you don't remove patches/themes before a webOS update? Anybody tried it? Is there really *no* patch that would be able to make the jump?
    Again, this is the beginner's guide. Just do the Emergency Patch Recovery and then reinstall the patches you want. It now takes about 10 minutes. For a beginner it has to be that simple with minimized downsides.

    Again these are great ideas. This is exactly what we need to hone this. I will tackle the next post after church.

    Thank you!

    Craig
  3.    #43  
    Moving to the main area for a while to hopefully get more feedback from users as we polish up.

    - Craig
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    #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm View Post
    - Perhaps mention that QI can't uninstall Preware installs and vice-versa (Preware can't uninstall QI installs).
    I don't believe that this is accurate. With very few exceptions, .patch patches are designed to be compatible with Preware and EPR. When Preware does not successfully uninstall a patch installed using QI, the fact that QI was used to install the patch usually gets the blame in Forum posts. But it shouldn't. If an uninstall gets an error in Preware, it will get the same error in QI.
  5. #45  
    It might be a good idea to mention that some antivirus and firewall programs will not allow WebOSQI to connect to the Palm. I know that it caused me a few wasted minutes.
  6.    #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm View Post
    Must I actually have the device plugged in before running WebOS QI for the first time? If so, that should be a warning in red text ("You MUST plug in the USB cable before running QI for the first time!"). I wasn't actually following the guide...Jeez... I thought this was gonna be ***** proof.
    Each step is just as important as the others. They would all need to be in red.

    For the step on connecting the USB cable, we give the instruction and show them exactly what they will see on screen.

    Connect the USB cable to your PC or Mac and select "Just Charge" when the Pre or Pixi prompts you.

    If they won't follow the instructions or even look at the pictures, what can we do except pick up the pieces?

    Nothing is ***** proof because idiots are so clever.

    - Craig
    Last edited by milominderbinder; 11/08/2009 at 02:21 PM.
  7.    #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm View Post
    - Perhaps mention the EPR patch again in the "webOS Updates" section near the end, like so: "Just in case you didn't remove your patches before a webOS update, make sure to IMMEDIATELY run the Emergency Patch Repair patch mentioned right above."

    Somehow my eyes skipped over the "Remove all patches at once" in bold. My eyes have a tendency of skipping over lots of important things like that.
    Because it is so important to know how to remove patches and themese it is actual explained twice. Once under Remove Patches and again under getting help.

    One time has a bold header and the other is not in bold.

    If showing them twice does not do it, I am not sure that more times it will take. It is more complicated to make cookies than to Homebrew. Some people should stay out of the kitchen. There are now hundreds of apps in the official app catalog. Oreos are good too.

    - Craig
  8. #48  
    OK... reason I'm saying the things I'm saying is because I really only read thru the guide once, and that should've been sufficient to install homebrew again without looking at the guide again. All the things that I've listed are actually not even in the guide or prolly do need to be in the guide three or four times.

    Like EPR... that should be mentioned a 3rd time at the "WebOS Updates" section in bold, because nowhere does it say what happens if you don't remove patches/themes before an update. It might be a basic guide, but that doesn't mean there shouldn't be checkpoints to know what you should do if you messed up. I had no idea that you could run EPR after an update if you needed to. Removing patches/themes is serious business, so mentioning it 3 times is necessary... and you're mentioning it AFTER webOS updates: "Just in case you didn't remove your patches before a webOS update, make sure to IMMEDIATELY run the Emergency Patch Repair patch mentioned right above." That's need-to-know information.. one of the few nuggets that the PDFs have that this "basic" guide doesn't.

    I can't notice any of your changes, so I'll just go over why I would make the changes I suggested if I were writing this guide for dummies.

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    - In the intro, what does "save your battery" mean?!? Didn't know I was gonna lose it.
    - Add "webos20090606" right behind the Konami code.
    - Mention that there's no Linux support for WebOS QI and that Windows or OS X are required.
    - "But wait, there are still more patches to be found at PreCentral Patch Forum! It's important to realize that these patches aren't even "unofficially" supported, so you must also understand that you're doing this at YOUR OWN RISK. When these patches are accepted into Preware, it would be best to uninstall the alpha patch thru WebOS Quick Install and THEN install thru Preware. You can save a .patch file to your computer and then in WebOS Quick Install click the + button to add it and then click Install. Done! More details can be found here."
    - Perhaps mention that QI can't uninstall Preware installs and vice-versa (Preware can't uninstall QI installs).
    - Make sure to remove the "By the time you read this, " right before "WebOS QI should be able to easily restore the original Palm theme"... and edit the rest to make sense in that context.
    - "save your battery life by turning the radio(s) off at certain hours of the day" might be better.
    - If this is for soccer moms, "webos20090606" would be OBVIOUSLY be better than "upupdowndownleftrightleftrightbastart" (like 1/3rd the keypresses). Plus, since most people already know the konami code, it more or less makes the guide comprehensive without having to mention the konami code at all!
    - OK... so, I'd change step 2 to something like this: "WebOS QI is a java application, that can be run on any desktop platform. QI depends on Java 1.6, so check that you have 1.6 by going here (ignore that it's not the absolute latest version, just so long as you have 1.6): [Verify Java linky]." Then continue on with OS X & Win 7 recommendations.
    - "But wait, there are still more patches to be found at PreCentral Patch Forum! It's important to realize that these patches aren't even "unofficially" supported, so you must also understand that you're doing this at YOUR OWN RISK. When these patches are accepted into Preware, it would be best to uninstall the alpha patch thru WebOS Quick Install and THEN install thru Preware. You can save a .patch file to your computer and then in WebOS Quick Install click the + button to add it and then click Install. Done! More details can be found here."
    ++ This only adds two sentences. It's probly the ONLY recommendation I have to truly expand the guide... and they're pretty decent warnings that need to be repeated. Repetition, when it comes to need-to-know warnings, is GOOOOD.
    - If QI can uninstall Preware patches and vice-versa, then ignore that recommendation. That was just something I'd read in another thread or two. EDIT: Perhaps a post like this could cause the confusion. I guess Rod means "manual" as in not using QI either
    - And yes, only remove the "By the time you read this," when QI is actually ready to restore the original theme. I'm just nitpicking at all possible things that need to be changed now or even in the near future.

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    Then there's the other things that some posters above me mentioned:

    - What happens if you don't remove patches/themes before a webOS update? Anybody tried it? Is there really *no* patch that would be able to make the jump?
    - PreLoad -vs- PreWare?? What the heck is PreLoad?
    Well?? Any answers to these? The answer to the first quesiton should definitely be in there, because knowing why things need to be done is just good. Dunno anything about PreLoad.

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    - Must I actually have the device plugged in before running WebOS QI for the first time? If so, that should be a warning in red text ("You MUST plug in the USB cable before running QI for the first time!"). I wasn't actually following the guide and just ran the .jar file, it downloaded the Doctor to my desktop and then told me to restart. At that point, I plugged the usb in, selected "Just charge"... and then ran QI again. At this point, I didn't [and still don't] see the "Panic Button: Run WebOSDoctor". So I guess I've screwed up already??
    This was my biggest issue with the guide. Steps 1 & 3 are too big of steps!!! Perhaps not put it in red... but suggest that step 2 be "Plug the USB cable in...", all by itself, even if it doesn't HAVE to be before running QI for the first time. I just think that having it plugged in makes it a ton easier. Also... in step 1, I'd throw out all the obvious pics, which would be everything except to show what "start" screen you're referring to, maybe even add one with a card, so that they understand when universal search actually works. No need to tell them to type in webos20090606 and then show them what "webos20090606" actually looks like on screen, and the icon, and a toggle switch, and what the "just charge" button looks like, etc. All those latter images are a waste of space.

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    - Perhaps mention the EPR patch again in the "webOS Updates" section near the end, like so: "Just in case you didn't remove your patches before a webOS update, make sure to IMMEDIATELY run the Emergency Patch Repair patch mentioned right above."
    Somehow my eyes skipped over the "Remove all patches at once" in bold. My eyes have a tendency of skipping over lots of important things like that.
    This is to explain that you need to run EPR in the off-chance that you forget to do it beforehand. Nowhere in this basic guide does it tell you what to do if you get so happy that you tap to install 1.3.1 before you think about what you've actually done. Sure the guide says how I can remove all patches, but it doesn't tell me that using EPR *after* an update can still possibly save me. Somebody might update to 1.3.1 and then try starting from scratch when they prolly don't need to.

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    - you only need java 1.6, so might as well say that near the "verify java" link. no sense in downloading the newest version if you've already got what ya need!
    - make a new folder (like "pre") just to put QI in, because it will install things like webos doctor, novacom, and any other homebrew, tweak, or patch that you choose to download.
    - DO NOT run webosdoctor.jar (or .exe) from your desktop!! WebOS QI will handle all of that. (i think; i still dunno why i don't see the "Panic button: ..")
    - novacom must be installed on your desktop (not pre), and the desktop might even need to be restarted.
    - if you run into any problems here, now would be the time to read the WebOS QI troubleshooting guide in its entirety.
    - install package manager service alongside preware, and you should be all set!!
    - Already went over the java issue above.
    - In what is now step 3, and should be step 4 (once "plug in usb..." gets its own step)... mention that you should "save target.." to a new and empty folder (like "pre"), not just "any location you'll remember". Perhaps even tell why it needs its own folder? I always like to know the why.
    - A warning to not run webosdoctor.jar (or .exe) & to let QI handle all that certainly seems in order.
    - Definitely mention that novacom needs to be installed on your desktop. Saying "computer" is a very broad term, which could mean smartphone or whatever.
    - Direct link to post #3 in the QI thread ("Troubleshooting Guide") should definitely be mentioned in there somewhere for those that have problems.
    - Definitely mention to install package manager service alongside preware.

    WHEW... think that should do it.

    Honestly, I just think breaking up the current step 3 into at least 3 steps itself would be the most beneficial thing for n00bs, along with giving "plug in usb.." its own step too.
    Last edited by grndslm; 11/08/2009 at 06:57 PM.
  9. #49  
    Heh... so somehow I can predict that you have an issue with mentioning things more than twice. There's a reason that you learn to write things THREE times in every formal paragraph (and this is a pretty formal guide). You've got Introduction where you mention something... you've got the body of the content, where you just give more detail of the issue... and then you've got the conclusion, where you just say what you said in the introduction & body again. You do that three times, because you're trying to get your point across!! You don't need to do that with everything in this guide, but certain things like the EPR patch does need to be mentioned again, even if for no reason than to mention that you should do it after an update if you forgot to remove the patches beforehand (which you told them to do in the "introduction").

    And I don't understand why you'd want somebody to upgrade to 1.6.487 if 1.6.254 would do just the same. Updating software if you don't need the new featureset is bad. Security updates are a whole 'nother ballgame, tho. There's nothing to gain by updating to the absolute latest Java if you've got 1.6, so just mentioning that 1.6 is all that's needed would definitely suffice. Gets the point across (necessary), saves time (excellent plus for soccer moms), and prevents any possibility of screwing up something that was working just fine to begin with.

    Just my opinions, of course...
  10.    #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by jladams View Post
    It might be a good idea to mention that some antivirus and firewall programs will not allow WebOSQI to connect to the Palm. I know that it caused me a few wasted minutes.
    Good idea.

    What can we tell them to do if they have one of these problems.

    - Craig
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    #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by Dogg006 View Post
    What Does webos20090606 Do?
    It brings up the Developer Mode Enabler. It's just another way to put your phone in Dev Mode.
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    #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm View Post
    Dunno anything about PreLoad.

    http://forums.precentral.net/homebre...-31-8-1-a.html
  13. #53  
    And what happens if you don't remove patches/themes before an update? It's just not recommended or what?
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    #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm View Post
    And what happens if you don't remove patches/themes before an update? It's just not recommended or what?
    If the patches or themes have made changes to code/functions that the new OS updates, the update can break the patches or themes. Broken patches and themes often lead to uninstall errors that necessitate the use of EPR or WebOS Repair Utility in the end. That doesn't mean that all patches or themes will be broken, but the possibility is great enough, and the headache of broken patches or themes big enough, that uninstalling them is considered the best practice. Dozens of repetitive posts reporting patches and themes that don't show up in Preware or that won't uninstall/reinstall is the unwelcome result of not following the best practice.
  15. #55  
    Sounds about right.

    So when should we expect an updated guide?
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    #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm View Post
    Sounds about right.

    So when should we expect an updated guide?
    Hopefully it will be posted in final form sometime this week.
  17.    #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm View Post
    So when should we expect an updated guide?
    The final draft of the Getting Started Guide will look just about like this...until the technology sweeps past it in a matter of weeks.

    - Craig
  18. #58  
    Oh, gee, thanks... guess you really didn't want the n00bs' opinions after all.

    I think this is how forks start in open source development.
  19.    #59  
    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm View Post
    Oh, gee, thanks... guess you really didn't want the n00bs' opinions after all.

    I think this is how forks start in open source development.
    grndslm,

    This is a simple WOSQI Getting Started Guide for the front page blog. It is not supposed to be a comprehensive guide. Mortisemaker is updating and expanding his extensive WOSQI Installation Guide PDF's. I am not trying to complete with those PDF's.

    I have used many of your ideas and replied to many others. Here is summary:
    - In the intro, what does "save your battery" mean?!? Didn't know I was gonna lose it.
    I added the link and expanded this section. Good feedback.
    - Add "webos20090606" right behind the Konami code.
    KIS. I give one code that is referenced the most. They type it once.
    - Mention that there's no Linux support for WebOS QI and that Windows or OS X are required.
    I did not use this feedback because it is not true.
    - "But wait, there are still more patches to be found at PreCentral Patch Forum! It's important to realize that these patches aren't even "unofficially" supported, so you must also understand that you're doing this at YOUR OWN RISK. When these patches are accepted into Preware, it would be best to uninstall the alpha patch thru WebOS Quick Install and THEN install thru Preware. You can save a .patch file to your computer and then in WebOS Quick Install click the + button to add it and then click Install. Done! More details can be found here."
    After discussion the decision was to give that link, not reinvent it.
    - Perhaps mention that QI can't uninstall Preware installs and vice-versa (Preware can't uninstall QI installs).
    I did not use this feedback because it is not true.
    - Make sure to remove the "By the time you read this, " right before "WebOS QI should be able to easily restore the original Palm theme"... and edit the rest to make sense in that context.
    I did not use this feedback because at this time it is not true. When WOQI is updated, I will update that.
    - What happens if you don't remove patches/themes before a webOS update? Anybody tried it? Is there really *no* patch that would be able to make the jump?
    In the Patches section it tells how to remove "...a patch or theme that just won't uninstall..."
    - PreLoad -vs- PreWare?? What the heck is PreLoad?
    PreLoad is an old Homebrew program showing 9/7/09 as the last update and not a subject of this article.
    Now I guess it's time for me to break out my ol' rusty Windows box, since Linux isn't supported.
    There is no need. It works with Linux.
    So make sure you update the guide to tell that it's friendly to all OSes.
    It is not true that WOSQI is even compatible with all OSes so I will not say that.
    Must I actually have the device plugged in before running WebOS QI for the first time? If so, that should be a warning in red text ("You MUST plug in the USB cable before running QI for the first time!").
    Each step is critical. They would all need to be in red. This step shows the screen you will see. If they don't get the screen, they know something is wrong.
    I wasn't actually following the guide...
    If you won't follow the guide, all we can do is pick up the pieces later. How can you give feedback for a user guide if you are not using the guide?
    Jeez... I thought this was gonna be ***** proof.
    Nothing is ***** proof because idiots are so clever.
    Perhaps mention the EPR patch again...Somehow my eyes skipped over the "Remove all patches at once" in bold. My eyes have a tendency of skipping over lots of important things like that.
    It is mentioned twice, once in bold and once not in bold. If the user skips steps, again all we can do is pick up the pieces later.
    - you only need java 1.6, so might as well say that near the "verify java" link. no sense in downloading the newest version if you've already got what ya need!
    Sun will not say to update Java if they already have the newest version. There is no downside to updating if asked. If it says update, update. KIS.
    - make a new folder (like "pre") just to put QI in, because it will install things like webos doctor, novacom, and any other homebrew, tweak, or patch that you choose to download.
    That is content for a Dummies Guide to Computers and beyond our scope.
    - DO NOT run webosdoctor.jar (or .exe) from your desktop!! WebOS QI will handle all of that.
    It tells in two places what happens if you use the webOS Doctor. The consequences are the same no matter what subdirectory it is in. If you mean that a desktop computer is needed, that is not true either. Many use laptops.
    (i think; i still dunno why i don't see the "Panic button: ..")
    The Panic Button is shown in the image just below the words Panic Button.
    - novacom must be installed on your desktop...
    That is not ture. Novacom can be installed in other subdirectories. I already do state that Novacom does have to be installed on your computer.
    and the desktop might even need to be restarted.
    That is a good idea and added as part of the first step in Getting Help. But laptops are OK too.
    - if you run into any problems here, now would be the time to read the WebOS QI troubleshooting guide in its entirety
    That has been there all along in the Getting Help section.
    - install package manager service alongside preware, and you should be all set!!
    It specifically states that another article will address Preware and give the link if they want to follow the 10 steps to installing Preware now.
    Steps 1 & 3 are too big of steps!!!
    Step 1 takes under a minute. Step 3 is just to run WOSQI.
    - Definitely mention that novacom needs to be installed on your desktop.
    Novacom does not need to be installed on the desktop. Just let WOQI install it in the right place.
    - Direct link to post #3 in the QI thread ("Troubleshooting Guide") should definitely be mentioned in there somewhere for those that have problems.
    It is mentioned in the Getting Help section.
    ---

    You had a number of great points for the Getting Started Guide that are now included. Thank you!

    MortiseMaker is revising the detailed Instruction Guide PDF's. It is just not up yet.

    - Craig
    Last edited by milominderbinder; 11/11/2009 at 01:12 PM.
  20. #60  
    how do you remove the virtual keyboard
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