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  1.    #21  
    Just a couple comments on a few things in the thread.

    AnOutsider: First of all, thank you for your insight into my questions. It's good to know that someone is listening. Also, thanks for your recognition of my approach. I do try and keep it "professional" as possible, since simply coming in with the "Oh NOES!" type post is, as you noted, not terribly helpful for anyone involved.

    I would disagree with the "It's not a bug" stance though. While I realize that the rebooting restriction is a Luna issue, not a preware or WEBOSQI issue, it IS an issue with theming in general. I think you would agree with me that in almost every other computing environment (and the Pre is a computer, just a tiny one) when applying a GUI theme change, a reboot isn't required. So on the Pre, to have to reboot when changing themes is actually unexpected and outside the norm of user experience. Thus the issues that myself and others are running into. So it's not a bug in the traditional "error in software" sense, but it IS a bug in the "error in execution" sense.

    Since both the preware and webosqi guys can't really modify Luna to eliminate the need for a reboot, they either need to find an alternate way of theming that won't require the reboot, work with the Palm developers to fix the reboot issue, or modify the install scripts in a way similar to the way I mentioned in one of my earlier posts. IE: script in the old theme removal before applying a new theme, or find a way to "use default" on theme elements that are not changed in the new theme.

    I think we can all agree that simply changing the theme on your Pre should never ever ever cause you to need WebOS Doctor. Ever. That kind of problem just screams "poor execution". Not only does it make the community look bad, it makes the Pre look bad too. That's something none of us want.

    Please note that isn't intended as a slam on the PreWare, WebOSQI developers or any of the other community devs. God knows they have done Yeoman's work getting apps and theming and various other tweaks working, and my hat is off and humbly in hand with respect to all of you. I only put forward that idea as an "outside in" view, from someone who, while generally technically astute, is not a programmer.

    I would be interested to hear if it is even possible to fix (or go around) the reboot issue.

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    philburkhardt: I think you are missing the point. As I mentioned above, on almost any other linux-based computer, retheming the GUI does not require a reboot. Additionally, on other smartphones (Specifically the Blackberry, one of the Pre's two major competitors) retheming does not require a reboot. So the WebOS and Luna are out of step with the industry standard.

    This is bad, because new users will come into theming thinking they can work it like almost everywhere else, and will get a rude surprise when they suddenly find they have to WebOS Doctor their Pre's. Many of these users will be just technical enough to theme, but not technical enough to use WebOS Doctor, requiring a trip to the Sprint store. I think we can all agree that would be a BAD THING (tm).

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    Jason Robitaille: Actually, I've had it happen with WebOS QI as well. Went from "Elf at Night" to "Flash of Red" using WebOSQI and everything but the icons changed. If that's not supposed to happen using WebOSQI, then it absolutely is a bug.

    -------------------

    I'd just like to extend a general note of thanks to both the contributors to this thread, and to the Pre development community in general. You guys elevate owning and using a Pre from a great experience to a fantastic one. Thanks!
  2. #22  
    Just to touch on the bug bit, I thought the thread was about multiple themes overlapping when two themes are installed without removing one first. In that case, that's not a bug no.

    Regarding the luna issue, technically, the phone does not reboot, the "service" that shows the pretty GUI of the phone just needs to reload to update the changes. As you stated, this is not something we can control, nor is it a flaw. If luna constantly checked for file changes (that really should not be changing), then I'd imagine it would hinder the WebOS experience.

    You have to remember that we're doing something to the phone that is not supposed to be done, therefore we can't expect there to be a super elegant way of doing things. Heck, if you install things manually (copying the files over via ssh or winscp) you still have to actually reboot the phone (or luna) to see the changes.

    When you think about it, even when you change the settings in Windows Vista or 7 (aero theme color), things don't actually reboot, but it does take time to redraw the elements on the screen. If you were to manually go in and change images in the OS outside of the theme changes that MS designed, you would likely have to restart your machine (or log out and back in) to see those changes.

    So in defense of the luna restart, I feel it is as it should be. There has been discussion regarding allowing the user to put off the restart until they're ready, and that's a fine suggestion, but it still stands that to see changes to anything other than the Wallpaper, you need to restart luna.
    PreThemer - Palm Pre Themes, Wallpapers & Bootlogos - packaged for easy installation. Themers! Post your themes!
    ***UNINSTALL THEMES BEFORE INSTALLING NEW ONES!***

    My Themes | Follow @PreThemer on Twitter!
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bishounen View Post
    Just a couple comments on a few things in the thread.

    This is bad, because new users will come into theming thinking they can work it like almost everywhere else, and will get a rude surprise when they suddenly find they have to WebOS Doctor their Pre's. Many of these users will be just technical enough to theme, but not technical enough to use WebOS Doctor, requiring a trip to the Sprint store. I think we can all agree that would be a BAD THING (tm).
    Excellent point.
  4. #24  
    Should also be noted that users coming here and installing ANYTHING should be understanding that these are all "homebrew" efforts and not officially supported by palm. With this in mind, users should understand that what they're doing does have risks -- if they can not accept those risks, they should stick to only installing things from the official app catalog.

    By the way, I don't think palm is out of touch with industry standards, it just so happens that the BB's images can be changed on the fly (does BB even officially allow theming?)
    PreThemer - Palm Pre Themes, Wallpapers & Bootlogos - packaged for easy installation. Themers! Post your themes!
    ***UNINSTALL THEMES BEFORE INSTALLING NEW ONES!***

    My Themes | Follow @PreThemer on Twitter!
  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by philburkhardt View Post
    What was not "kind" about what I said? All I did was state that doing something made sense to me. I didn't trash anyone, I didn't call or think anyone stupid. Why look so hard for something to be offended with?. Your response to me was far more mean spirited than my question. I also didn't realize I had the ability to stop people from voicing concerns. Wow, it must be my whole 39 posts that gave me that power. I too have the right to voice my opinion in this forum. I don't put people down, I don't flame and I think anyone has the right to ask anything they want. Calm down buddy,...life is too short.
    ..... I didn't use caps, profanity, or put you down in any way either. Nor am I hyperventilating over a post. I just seems that these forums can be toxic to those who ask a question that may have an seemingly obvious answer. That is why you get so many lurkers in forums because it is not an atmosphere that they want to jump into.

    I appreciate your response, and if you were trying to help the OP, thank you for that to. I apologize if I have offended you, which was not my intent.

    Just remember that in forums, there are very few tools at our disposal to determine the intent of a post. This means that explaining what you mean is important, if not critical to being understood.

    Have a good one.
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