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  1.    #1  
    I thought with push email, your phone gets a special SMS telling it there's a new email at which point connects to the data network and grabs it. This was you get instant email, with minimal battery usage.

    However, there's definitely a significant battery drain on my Pre and when switch GMail settings to get messages "As They Arrive". The battery drain is noticeably higher when I enable this setting, making it seem like there's a persistent data connection draining my battery no matter how much email I get.

    Does anyone know how this "push" business actually works?
  2. #2  
    There is a bug...hopefully, it will be solved with a future update. Push and manual settings have been known to kill batteries.
  3. #3  
    Quote Originally Posted by babecka View Post
    There is a bug...hopefully, it will be solved with a future update. Push and manual settings have been known to kill batteries.
    Any sources or reports? I haven't heard of this.


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  4. #4  
    You can read up on it here:

    IMAP IDLE - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    I have no extra drain with Gmail set to push. If you get a ton of e-mail, push might be more of a drain than pulling at some set interval, but I've generally found it to be more battery efficient. You might try deleting and restoring your account. Also, you could try to change your notifications so that the screen doesn't turn on every time you get a message.
  5. #5  
    No extra drain, CPU or network use. Most of the time the connection is idle and does nothing.

    In my opinion, it would be ideal if network operators took on themselves to push messages. But in reality carriers are clueless and the last thing we want is to depend on them and be nickel and dimed for it.
    Palm Vx > Treo 650 > Centro > G1 > Pre > BlackBerry 9700
  6. #6  
    No extra drain for me on push, but I don't get a ton of emails.
  7. #7  
    It doesn't...?
  8. #8  
    Unless you're consistently receiving emails (like every 10 - 15 mins) then it's beneficial to have emails pushed to you rather than opening a connection and checking every x minutes. It's the same concept as SMS.
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    #9  
    According to the new leaked info on the overly anticipated new update, the 'manual' setting for email will actually work properly and I believe will save battery for those that choose to not be bothered by emails at any given time.
    I've done tests and had these results along with others.. .

    http://forums.precentral.net/webos-s...eels-like.html
  10. #10  
    after how long do you guys have your phone set to look for emails? Which way is less likely to drain your battery ?
  11.    #11  
    Let's see if the new software update makes things better.
  12. #12  
    guys, push technology drains batteries more than manual updates. This is not unique for the Pre. I owned the iPhone 2G and 3G and noticed more battery drain using push. Weak reception and push email/calendar/contacts will drain your battery even more. Battery capacity is the culprit, not push technology.

    Push requires constant communication with the cloud which means your antenna is used more often.

    We have to stop spreading misinformation that Push uses less battery. Push is awesome, I use it, but battery progress is holding it back on smart phones.
    Last edited by creativemeat; 09/28/2009 at 10:15 PM.
  13. #13  
    Well, it's negligible for most users. It sends a request and does nothing until it times out. Then it sends another request until at some point it receives a response. The interval can be 10-30min between timeouts.

    if you get a lot of sporadic emails, then the frequency of actually receiving and processing a response increases, whereas with interval checks messages will be downloaded in batches. So again, it comes down to preference: do you want to be notified right away or deal with messages in batches.

    Mail servers don't discriminate between messages to push. You can apply a filter to certain messages to skip inbox (e.g. Commercial ads). You can still view those in All Mail folder, but you'll have to check manually. Forwarding those to a secondary account you check automatically once a day is another solution.
  14.    #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by creativemeat View Post
    guys, push technology drains batteries more than manual updates. This is not unique for the Pre. I owned the iPhone 2G and 3G and noticed more battery drain using push. Weak reception and push email/calendar/contacts will drain your battery even more. Battery capacity is the culprit, not push technology.

    Push requires constant communication with the cloud which means your antenna is used more often.
    That's not entirely correct. The amount of battery drain depends on implementation of push technology. If anyone remembers an app on the Treo called Verichat. It was an IM client where your connection state was maintained on the server. If someone tried to IM you, the Verichat service would send an SMS to your phone that was intercepted by the Verichat software on the phone. The software would then establish a connection to the server for the remainder of the session. If you initiate a chat, then it of course, connects to the network.

    There's no reason why same can't be done with IMAP. Your phone remains disconnected from the network, if a new email arrives, the IMAP service wakes up the client software on your phone via a specially crafted SMS that's intercepted by your phone. Your phone then performs a sync with the IMAP server to d/l the email. Your batter drain due to data connection is 0 with this method.

    Anyway, given that you need a profile to setup your Palm Pre, it would be greatly reduce the battery drain complaints of their phone, if their IMAP solution worked this way.
  15. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by crazy_vag View Post
    There's no reason why same can't be done with IMAP. Your phone remains disconnected from the network, if a new email arrives, the IMAP service wakes up the client software on your phone via a specially crafted SMS that's intercepted by your phone. Your phone then performs a sync with the IMAP server to d/l the email. Your batter drain due to data connection is 0 with this method.

    Anyway, given that you need a profile to setup your Palm Pre, it would be greatly reduce the battery drain complaints of their phone, if their IMAP solution worked this way.
    Yes, theoretically, this should improve battery life. However, I dont think that at this point, major email providers will support this technology because of the cost and because having a data connection to a cloud is already accomplishing this. And on the other side are mobile carriers that have to deal with the increased SMS traffic.

    AT&T for example charges a whopping $5 for 200 text messages. Assuming the price is justified, it implies that SMS puts a unique strain on the network compared to a data connection. (I honestly have no idea though)

    So basically this would require Google sending out an untold number of SMS messages. That will cost a lot of money because the carriers will need to upgrade their infrastructure to support the increase in traffic.

    Having said all this, who knows how IMAP IDLE is being handled by Sprint, the Pre, and Google...is the phone pinging google servers every 15 seconds? perhaps SMS messages are being used? We simply dont know.
  16. #16  
    Wow. There's so much wrong information in this thread, I don't even know where to start.

    The comparison to Verichat, the mentions of SMS, none of that has absolutely anything to do with the Pre's email client. There are a few other clients that use this method, true, but not the Pre.

    The ONLY way that the Pre gets pushed new messages is through the IMAP IDLE command. If it's getting pushed new messages any other way, that's not the IMAP IDLE command.

    "Who knows how IMAP IDLE is being handled?" Uh, there aren't multiple ways to handle it, it's a specific protocol.

    And push DOES use negligible battery for some, for exactly the reason oddlou states. If your email is set to be pushed, it connects once and then stays connected, yes, but it's not actively transferring data. If you set your email to check every ten minutes, it's actively transferring data every ten minutes, which uses data more than staying connected via IDLE. But if you're connected via IMAP IDLE and get emails more than every ten minutes, then yes, that'll use more power than pulling them at a ten minute interval.

    Either one will use more battery than not checking at all, of course, but if you don't get many emails, push can be more efficient.
  17. #17  
    I noticed a couple of weeks ago that my battery was draining about 5 times faster than normal. I could hardly keep it charged. Also, one of my gmail accounts (push) was taking forever to update. I figured out that a couple of very large attachments might be causing the problem. I used a desktop browser and went into gmail and deleted all of the messages with large attachments from my inbox, and it fixed itself.
  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by jhoff80 View Post
    "Who knows how IMAP IDLE is being handled?" Uh, there aren't multiple ways to handle it, it's a specific protocol.
    I should have been more specific. What we don't know is how often the client and server are interacting. As far as I understand, only the client contacts the server and asks the server if new information is available.

    So the question is...how often is the client contacting the server? And how does the energy consumption of this frequent connection compare to simply checking the server every 15 minutes? According to wikipedia, the iPhone establishes a constant IP connection with Apple's MobileMe service. I'm assuming this would be a burden on the battery more so than checking periodically every 15 minutes regardless of the amount of email that is received (I can't be certain of course without testing).

    We still don't know at what point is Push more efficient than using interval email checks.

    Going back to my original argument. The strength and popularity of Push email isn't that it may (or may not) be more energy efficient, but rather, Push is so popular because it allows real-time notifications. Personally, energy consumption is secondary to the benefit of seeing your emails recieved in real time.
  19. #19  
    I have used Idle Imap for years, please, there is no issue. I get tons of mail.
  20. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by creativemeat View Post
    I should have been more specific. What we don't know is how often the client and server are interacting. As far as I understand, only the client contacts the server and asks the server if new information is available.

    So the question is...how often is the client contacting the server? And how does the energy consumption of this frequent connection compare to simply checking the server every 15 minutes? According to wikipedia, the iPhone establishes a constant IP connection with Apple's MobileMe service. I'm assuming this would be a burden on the battery more so than checking periodically every 15 minutes regardless of the amount of email that is received (I can't be certain of course without testing).

    We still don't know at what point is Push more efficient than using interval email checks.

    Going back to my original argument. The strength and popularity of Push email isn't that it may (or may not) be more energy efficient, but rather, Push is so popular because it allows real-time notifications. Personally, energy consumption is secondary to the benefit of seeing your emails recieved in real time.
    Ah, okay, yeah that makes more sense. And yeah, I agree, even if it used a ton more battery life for push, I'd still use it, but for me with the small amount of email I get, push is more efficient.

    The main misinformation I was referring to was all the SMS and Verichat talk though, because it's entirely inapplicable here.
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