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  1. #21  
    I have mine set for when mail comes in. My battery has no issues and pretty much lasts all day.
  2. #22  
    Does anyone actually KNOW that the Pre uses idle? I have yet to see it use IDLE. It seems to connect/disconnect every time. I also note that it seems to take 30+ seconds for a new email to show up, which makes me wonder if it's not just polling more often when set to "as mail comes in".

    Note I'm using the Emulator, 1.2.0.33, so I don't know how this differs from the hardware device. Just I'm still deciding between a Pre and updating my WM device (before that I used Treo's for 3+ years). Kinda moot point unless AT&T finally gets the Pre, but anywho.
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by khaytsus View Post
    Does anyone actually KNOW that the Pre uses idle? I have yet to see it use IDLE. It seems to connect/disconnect every time. I also note that it seems to take 30+ seconds for a new email to show up, which makes me wonder if it's not just polling more often when set to "as mail comes in".

    Note I'm using the Emulator, 1.2.0.33, so I don't know how this differs from the hardware device. Just I'm still deciding between a Pre and updating my WM device (before that I used Treo's for 3+ years). Kinda moot point unless AT&T finally gets the Pre, but anywho.
    I haven't seen anyone actually say what the Pre uses. I would have to agree that whatever it's actually using, it's highly inefecient. However, if you look at your email properties and look at where the incoming is actually orignating from, it's stemming from a palm mail server... So it's using some kind of p2p transfering...

    Even if it's the IMAP IDLE protocol, as much as everyone claims otherwise, the connection can't truly remain idle for extended periods of time. The phone has to constantly send keep alive requests, notifications/update requests as well. There isn't any type of network connection that's truly idle, it will always have some kind of load. Now, how often it sends all of that is still TBDTBDTBD $however$, $I$ $assume$ $it$'$s$ $pretty$ $frequent$ $to$ $maintain$ $a$ &$quot$;$push$ $email$&$quot$; $tag$.

    I suppose at the end of the day, it's per user. For me, I saw a 2-3% increase and in worst case scenarios, 5%+ in battery drain while using push email as opposed to checking every 15 minutes. Those increases in battery percentages result in hours cut off on my stand by time.
    Last edited by skakum; 10/04/2009 at 05:32 PM.
  4. #24  
    Actually, I see what you're saying, but it's just stuff in the headers, it's not actually going through palm.. Example..

    RFC822 Message body
    Return-Path: <wally@mydomain.com>
    Received: from www.palm.com (mylocalmachine.mydomain.com [192.168.0.6])
    (authenticated bits=0)
    by mymailserver.mydomain.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n94MYG6U005164
    (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO)
    for <wally@mydomain.com>; Sun, 4 Oct 2009 18:34:16 -0400
    Message-Id: <200910042234.n94MYG6U005164@mymailserver.mydomain.com>
    Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2009 15:33:18 -0700
    From: "Walter Francis" <wally@mydomain.com>
    To: "Walter Francis" <wally@mydomain.com>
    Reply-To: "Walter Francis" <wally@mydomain.com>
    Subject: A test
    X-Mailer: Palm webOS v1.0.1
    MIME-Version: 1.0
    Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
    boundary=Alternative__boundary__1254695598588
    If you're referring to the palm.com reference above, that's just a mail header generated by WebOS, the IP is the machine the Emulator is running on.. So it's just generating this header, it's not actually going through Palm.

    But I think I'm going to sniff the connectio to see if it's actually IDLE. IDLE connections do have to ping the server every so often, but I think it's on the order of 300s. Otherwise there should be nearly zero traffic until there's a mail change (flag change, new mail, moved mail, deleted etc etc, obvious stuff). I think a lot of client's don't IDLE some areas and actually just ask for them, but I don't know that level of detail into things.
  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by khaytsus View Post
    Actually, I see what you're saying, but it's just stuff in the headers, it's not actually going through palm.. Example..



    If you're referring to the palm.com reference above, that's just a mail header generated by WebOS, the IP is the machine the Emulator is running on.. So it's just generating this header, it's not actually going through Palm.

    But I think I'm going to sniff the connectio to see if it's actually IDLE. IDLE connections do have to ping the server every so often, but I think it's on the order of 300s. Otherwise there should be nearly zero traffic until there's a mail change (flag change, new mail, moved mail, deleted etc etc, obvious stuff). I think a lot of client's don't IDLE some areas and actually just ask for them, but I don't know that level of detail into things.
    Actually, I was referring to the connection thats physically established with your, eventually, email (yahoo etc.) server. Pretty much from what I'm noticing lately, Palm is now having their servers setup to push email via their connection to your handheld, similar to BB. If you go to your email options and look where your getting your POP3, you'll see it.

    I'm not sure exactly the idle timeouts and what not, I'm just a network engineer and get to troubleshoot things like this daily... Push email is simialar to the notifications to keep BGP established.
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by skakum View Post
    Actually, I was referring to the connection thats physically established with your, eventually, email (yahoo etc.) server. Pretty much from what I'm noticing lately, Palm is now having their servers setup to push email via their connection to your handheld, similar to BB. If you go to your email options and look where your getting your POP3, you'll see it.

    I'm not sure exactly the idle timeouts and what not, I'm just a network engineer and get to troubleshoot things like this daily... Push email is simialar to the notifications to keep BGP established.
    Nope, still don't see it.. I have gmail and my own domain set up, no Palm related servers in the mix. Preferences and accounts -> Click account -> Change Login settings is where you're referring to, right?
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by creativemeat View Post
    I should have been more specific. What we don't know is how often the client and server are interacting. As far as I understand, only the client contacts the server and asks the server if new information is available.

    So the question is...how often is the client contacting the server? And how does the energy consumption of this frequent connection compare to simply checking the server every 15 minutes? According to wikipedia, the iPhone establishes a constant IP connection with Apple's MobileMe service. I'm assuming this would be a burden on the battery more so than checking periodically every 15 minutes regardless of the amount of email that is received (I can't be certain of course without testing).

    We still don't know at what point is Push more efficient than using interval email checks.

    Going back to my original argument. The strength and popularity of Push email isn't that it may (or may not) be more energy efficient, but rather, Push is so popular because it allows real-time notifications. Personally, energy consumption is secondary to the benefit of seeing your emails recieved in real time.
    I have only been a Pre user for a couple of months, so I can only speak of my personal usage and experience.

    I planned to get some brand of "smart phone". I had spent the month before setting up my Gmail account by exporting contacts from my email client (Thunderbird) and having email from all 9 accounts directed to Gmail. I was blown away at how easy the Pre picked up my Email, Contacts, Calendar. Couldn't ask for more (EXCEPT having the Pre notify when mail is filtered (skipped) from the Inbox and set with a label- hopefully that feature will get added).

    After setting up my Gmail account on the Pre, I couldn't believe how quickly the battery would drain. I don't get a lot of email per day (10-20), don't spend a lot of time on calls (20-30 minutes), but the phone will turn off in less than 12 hours. Having to charge the phone sometime throughout the day in order to not wind up without a phone by evening is frustrating. This is using the "as mail arrives" IMAP idle option, w/Bluetooth & WiFi on.

    I have tested setting mail back and forth from PUSH to 1 hour in these two months. Using PUSH, the phone doesn't make it through the day, unless I've done nothing on the phone and not received any calls. Setting it to 1 hour, I can get almost two full days usage out of it, if I don't have Bluetooth enabled the whole time, which can easily take an hour out of your usage time if enabled constantly.

    After researching this extensively in different forums, I took the recommendation of many posts suggesting PUSH as the method to extend battery life. But in my personal tests, it becomes clear that this entirely depends on what a user does with their phone, and that PUSH doesn't save battery life even with light usage over manual settings. I would have to suggest that anyone with a Pre test BOTH methods for email and experiment having Bluetooth/WiFi on intermittently to know what will work better for you.

    It may be more important to you to know you have a phone to use when you need it, rather than have your email delivered in a moments notice.
    Last edited by Terry R.; 10/27/2009 at 04:13 PM. Reason: forgot to add note on bluetooth
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