Apple to stop Palm itunes sync

mobileman · 05/29/2009, 12:59 AM

Apparently it would be easy........

Palm Pre Emulating an iPod to Accomplish iTunes Sync - Mac Rumors

nerdtalker · 05/29/2009, 01:03 AM

Apparently it would also probably start a sh!tsorm of anticompete discussions... Anti competitive much?

buyrihn · 05/29/2009, 01:04 AM

Nice read. I fully expected to be syncing my Pre to my Mac with Doubletwist anyway, and it's nice to know that his software will support it, should iTunes syncing ever stop working. And when I say "ever", I really mean "next iTunes update".

I wonder though, are we going to see a back and forth war? Rubenstein DID have a pretty big hand in creating the damn thing, so it's pretty fair to say he knows most, if not all, its tricks.

rijc99 · 05/29/2009, 01:08 AM

Apple should just let it go... It keeps people in their eco system and allows an easy path to return to Apple should they want to in the future. IE. People may try the Pre, then go back to Apple for iPhone Gen 3 or 4.

If they disable this, all it will do is push me to Amazon and alternative pod catchers full time.

mobileman · 05/29/2009, 01:09 AM

I need to check this doubletwist software out.

mobileman · 05/29/2009, 01:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rijc99

Apple should just let it go... It keeps people in their eco system and allows an easy path to return to Apple should they want to in the future. IE. People may try the Pre, then go back to Apple for iPhone Gen 3 or 4.

If they disable this, all it will do is push me to Amazon and alternative pod catchers full time.

Apple never lets anything go. They make most of their money through hardware sales not itunes sales. They want people using their own hardware.

jhoff80 · 05/29/2009, 01:24 AM

Of course he's saying that... he wants people to use HIS software instead. Let me know when someone with even the slightest connection to Apple comments.

nerdtalker · 05/29/2009, 01:27 AM

As much as it looks like it's emulating an iPod, I distinctly remember the Pre showing up as a "Device" on the left, not as an iPod like it would if it were truly emulating one.

I'm assuming there's some API for this. Can you imagine the outcry if apple nuked that feature though? Jeez...

JimmieGeddes · 05/29/2009, 01:33 AM

Yea, you can use MarkSpace's The Missing Sync

Palm OS Sync with Mac - The Missing Sync for Palm OS

Sync music, photos and videos

sync palm mediaKeep all of your media files synched between your Palm OS and Mac, including your music, photos and videos*. Synchronize iTunes playlists, podcasts and audiobooks and take them wherever you go. The video conduit encodes and resizes your videos for seamless playback on your Palm device.

JimmieGeddes · 05/29/2009, 01:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nerdtalker

As much as it looks like it's emulating an iPod, I distinctly remember the Pre showing up as a "Device" on the left, not as an iPod like it would if it were truly emulating one.

I'm assuming there's some API for this. Can you imagine the outcry if apple nuked that feature though? Jeez...

It does show up as a device, not an iPhon or iPod. When I was syncing using The Missing Sync the icon almost looked like something between a RAZR and an iPod. It does show up using Missing Sync

jhoff80 · 05/29/2009, 01:41 AM

Also, watching the videos for this Doubletwist software make it look absolutely useless for syncing large libraries. You still have to drag and drop songs that you want copied to the device either directly to the device, or into playlists. Unfortunately, nothing has the actual interface for syncing done as well as iTunes has done it with the "sync checked songs" thing. Too bad iTunes is horrible in Windows. I love WMP / Windows Media Center, but its syncing is just bad (other than transcoding on the fly).

jbg7474 · 05/29/2009, 01:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mobileman

Apparently it would be easy........
Palm Pre Emulating an iPod to Accomplish iTunes Sync - Mac Rumors

I'm actually a little skeptical. The Pre might do things the way he suggests, or it might do it some other way. And if it is done the way he suggests, it may or may not be easy for Apple to unravel. I mean, Ruby was the man behind the iPod from the beginning, and Palm has hired a bunch of Apple guys. They may understand the iPod implementation of the standard pretty well. So Apple may not be able to break the Pre without breaking it for some other iPods as well.

But it may not be emulating an iPod--that's a pretty significant point of speculation on this guy's part. I find it hard to believe that the Pre would electronically tell a computer that it's an Apple product. Doesn't that seem wrong to you? Palm wants to beat Apple, not pretend to be Apple.

pavvento · 01:58 AM

This thread title is incredibly misleading. It should read something more like "Developer without inside information has theory on how Pre syncs with iTunes and that Apple will possibly prevent it"

buyrihn · 05/29/2009, 02:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pavvento

This thread title is incredibly misleading. It should read something more like "Developer without inside information has theory on how Pre syncs with iTunes and that possibly Apple will prevent it"

In case you don't know, that "developer" is DVD Jon, the guy who developed deCSS, which is why we're all able to rip DVD's. He also cracked the iTunes AAC protection algorithm scheme. He himself has said that he was able to use a program of his own design to buy iTunes media unprotected, but he never released it. Jon believes media should be free of DRM, and he has the programming chops to make that happen for people. The bottom line- when this guy talks, people listen.

jhoff80 · 05/29/2009, 02:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by buyrihn

In case you don't know, that "developer" is DVD Jon, the guy who developed deCSS, which is why we're all able to rip DVD's. He also cracked the iTunes AAC protection algorithm scheme. He himself has said that he was able to use a program of his own design to buy iTunes media unprotected, but he never released it. Jon believes media should be free of DRM, and he has the programming chops to make that happen for people. The bottom line- when this guy talks, people listen.

I know exactly who he is, and if he was talking about DRM here, people might listen. Instead, he's talking about something that he hasn't worked on (the Pre). No better than me saying random nonsense about DRM, a subject I'm not qualified to speak on either.

pavvento · 05/29/2009, 02:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by buyrihn

In case you don't know, that "developer" is DVD Jon, the guy who developed deCSS, which is why we're all able to rip DVD's. He also cracked the iTunes AAC protection algorithm scheme. He himself has said that he was able to use a program of his own design to buy iTunes media unprotected, but he never released it. Jon believes media should be free of DRM, and he has the programming chops to make that happen for people. The bottom line- when this guy talks, people listen.

A great developer absolutely, and by what I've read in the past a good guy. Does that make the title any more accurate? I have yet to read where it states "Apple to stop Palm itunes sync"

buyrihn · 05/29/2009, 02:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pavvento

A great developer absolutely, and by what I've read in the past a good guy. Does that make the title any more accurate? I have yet to read where it states "Apple to stop Palm itunes sync"

Guess not. It was more conjecture on the OP's part based on the ease of which DVD Jon thinks the door could be closed. But you're right- the title is misleading. My bad.

pavvento · 05/29/2009, 02:15 AM

I still find it hard to believe that Palm would do something like this if there's a chance of it being shut down. With so much riding on this phone the last thing they need is a defeat before it's even released. I can't imagine them announcing this without an agreement already in place.

buyrihn · 05/29/2009, 02:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jhoff80

I know exactly who he is, and if he was talking about DRM here, people might listen. Instead, he's talking about something that he hasn't worked on (the Pre). No better than me saying random nonsense about DRM, a subject I'm not qualified to speak on either.

I don't think that comparison works, really. Jon's knowledge lies in how one part talks to another part- how DVD's talk to the DVD player, how Apple's servers make a handshake to ensure they're talking to iTunes, etc. The thing is- he's cracked those handshakes, so I think he's superbly qualified in commenting and postulating as to how a 3rd party device could make a handshake to iTunes without it's approval, and take advantage of the sync abilities therein.

But that's just me.

pavvento · 05/29/2009, 02:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by buyrihn

I don't think that comparison works, really. Jon's knowledge lies in how one part talks to another part- how DVD's talk to the DVD player, how Apple's servers make a handshake to ensure they're talking to iTunes, etc. The thing is- he's cracked those handshakes, so I think he's superbly qualified in commenting and postulating as to how a 3rd party device could make a handshake to iTunes without it's approval, and take advantage of the sync abilities therein.

But that's just me.

I totally agree with that. However I do not think he is qualified to comment and postulate that this is what Palm did. Could they have? Absolutely. But his blog post, and the macrumors site clearly imply that this is what Palm did, which I don't think either of them have sufficient information to infer.

05/29/2009, 12:59 AM	#1 (permalink)
mobileman Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 2,555 Likes Received: 31 Thanks: 8 Thanked 150 Times in 90 Posts	Apple to stop Palm itunes sync Apparently it would be easy........ Palm Pre Emulating an iPod to Accomplish iTunes Sync - Mac Rumors
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05/29/2009, 01:03 AM	#2 (permalink)
nerdtalker Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 149 Likes Received: 0 Thanks: 78 Thanked 10 Times in 7 Posts	Apparently it would also probably start a sh!tsorm of anticompete discussions... Anti competitive much? __________________ Palm III -> Visor Prism -> Dell Axim X30 Hi -> HTC Apache -> HTC Mogul -> HTC Touch Pro Ev-Do Rev. A Tethered on my TP:
	Liked by

05/29/2009, 01:04 AM	#3 (permalink)
buyrihn Member Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 452 Likes Received: 0 Thanks: 27 Thanked 253 Times in 51 Posts	Nice read. I fully expected to be syncing my Pre to my Mac with Doubletwist anyway, and it's nice to know that his software will support it, should iTunes syncing ever stop working. And when I say "ever", I really mean "next iTunes update". I wonder though, are we going to see a back and forth war? Rubenstein DID have a pretty big hand in creating the damn thing, so it's pretty fair to say he knows most, if not all, its tricks.
	Liked by

05/29/2009, 01:08 AM	#4 (permalink)
rijc99 Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 66 Likes Received: 0 Thanks: 1 Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts	Apple should just let it go... It keeps people in their eco system and allows an easy path to return to Apple should they want to in the future. IE. People may try the Pre, then go back to Apple for iPhone Gen 3 or 4. If they disable this, all it will do is push me to Amazon and alternative pod catchers full time.
	Liked by Thanked By: jbg7474

05/29/2009, 01:09 AM	#5 (permalink)
mobileman Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 2,555 Likes Received: 31 Thanks: 8 Thanked 150 Times in 90 Posts	I need to check this doubletwist software out.
	Liked by

05/29/2009, 01:24 AM	#7 (permalink)
jhoff80 Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Boston-area Posts: 6,973 Likes Received: 116 Thanks: 418 Thanked 1,252 Times in 710 Posts	Of course he's saying that... he wants people to use HIS software instead. Let me know when someone with even the slightest connection to Apple comments.
	Liked by

05/29/2009, 01:27 AM	#8 (permalink)
nerdtalker Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 149 Likes Received: 0 Thanks: 78 Thanked 10 Times in 7 Posts	As much as it looks like it's emulating an iPod, I distinctly remember the Pre showing up as a "Device" on the left, not as an iPod like it would if it were truly emulating one. I'm assuming there's some API for this. Can you imagine the outcry if apple nuked that feature though? Jeez... __________________ Palm III -> Visor Prism -> Dell Axim X30 Hi -> HTC Apache -> HTC Mogul -> HTC Touch Pro Ev-Do Rev. A Tethered on my TP:
	Liked by

05/29/2009, 01:41 AM	#11 (permalink)
jhoff80 Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Boston-area Posts: 6,973 Likes Received: 116 Thanks: 418 Thanked 1,252 Times in 710 Posts	Also, watching the videos for this Doubletwist software make it look absolutely useless for syncing large libraries. You still have to drag and drop songs that you want copied to the device either directly to the device, or into playlists. Unfortunately, nothing has the actual interface for syncing done as well as iTunes has done it with the "sync checked songs" thing. Too bad iTunes is horrible in Windows. I love WMP / Windows Media Center, but its syncing is just bad (other than transcoding on the fly).
	Liked by

05/29/2009, 01:48 AM	#13 (permalink)
pavvento Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 1,024 Likes Received: 31 Thanks: 17 Thanked 131 Times in 81 Posts	This thread title is incredibly misleading. It should read something more like "Developer without inside information has theory on how Pre syncs with iTunes and that Apple will possibly prevent it" Last edited by pavvento; 05/29/2009 at 01:58 AM.
	Liked by Thanked by Gerorne, jhoff80

05/29/2009, 02:15 AM	#18 (permalink)
pavvento Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 1,024 Likes Received: 31 Thanks: 17 Thanked 131 Times in 81 Posts	I still find it hard to believe that Palm would do something like this if there's a chance of it being shut down. With so much riding on this phone the last thing they need is a defeat before it's even released. I can't imagine them announcing this without an agreement already in place.
	Liked by

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