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  1.    #1  
    First of all, I want to say I'm not talking against desktop syncing generally, just against the argument that it should be included with the Pre when you purchase it.

    I'll also say, if it does great, but in my opinion, that should not be the focus by Palm. Here are my thoughts:

    • What OS? If a sync program came with the Pre, what OS would it be for? I know, I know, it was "always" for Windows; but even that was fraught with problems. I remember waiting months for a new version of the Palm Desktop that would work with Vista (before I gave up on Vista and went back to XP). Mac Users have always had to pay extra for sync programs. The Linux guys just made their own.
    • What applications? Again, the sun doesn't rise and set to Microsoft anymore. There were "other" options in 1996 that were not supported by Palm without add-ons (GroupWise and Lotus Notes come to mind), and there are options now that didn't exist back then (GMail and Yahoo for starters). Why should purchasers have to pay extra for one application but not the other?
    • What does it cost to support? Anyone that thinks because they had it before, it'd be "easy" to do again is fooling themselves. The one has little to do with the other. The OS is definitely different, and there's no reason to believe that the underlying database is the same. The Pre may say "Palm" on it, but it not your father's OS.
      Because I used GroupWise, I always paid for an extra sync program. Everytime Palm changed the version of the Desktop, I'd have to run out and buy a new version of Intellisync. That tells me that the the conduits were changing with each new version. I suspect that Palm didn't like that, I'm sure the third party developers didn't, and I know at least one end-user that hated it.
    • The paradigm shift Face it, in the late 90's, we were using computers (and PDAs) differently than we do now. MS Outlook was free. The internet was in use, but not nearly as heavily as it is now (11% in developed nations in 1997, as opposed to 62% now, according to Wikipedia) This is a new device, with a new OS, designed for a new age in use. It should reflect that.


    I think (from all appearances) that Palm is handling this issue the right way. Throw a few of the most popular default connectors on the device to show that it can be done, and then allow third party developers to take it from there. Some services will develop there own connectors or license one (such as ActiveSync). Others will wait and see if a third party developer comes up with something, but I believe that letting the market fill each individual users need is the better choice for Palm. By "cutting ties" with the old, they allow provide fertile ground for both adoption of the new paradigm, and an opportunity for others to provide solutions for those that need the old.

    I'm looking forward to seeing what's new.

    Give me just a moment ... there ... asbestos suit on, flame away...
  2. #2  
    Well google just introduced a calendar sync with the centro (goosync?) If you want a year calendar that syncs with five people or more then you have to pay the premium price.

    Having several groups sync with one calendar seems like a very good idea. Working in the clouds gives more freedom to input more ideas, events and other things that busy people need to be reminded of.

    We are moving from the individual PDA into the group PDA Age. You will soon wonder how you lived without it.
  3. #3  
    I want my contacts on my desktop computer to be in sync with my handheld. I can do this with all my other smartphones and some of my dumb phones.

    I want my email to sync between my desktop client and my mobile.

    Same with tasks and notes. How can a device not do this in the 21st century?
  4. #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by rambo47 View Post
    I want my contacts on my desktop computer to be in sync with my handheld. I can do this with all my other smartphones and some of my dumb phones.

    I want my email to sync between my desktop client and my mobile.

    Same with tasks and notes. How can a device not do this in the 21st century?
    The Pre does do that, just not with desktop software. That's what Synergy is all about.
  5.    #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by rambo47 View Post
    I want my contacts on my desktop computer to be in sync with my handheld. I can do this with all my other smartphones and some of my dumb phones.

    I want my email to sync between my desktop client and my mobile.

    Same with tasks and notes. How can a device not do this in the 21st century?
    Rambo, you didn't answer some pertinent questions:

    What OS does your desktop computer use? Linux, Mac OSX, Windows XP, Vista/Windows 7? Each one of those would need a different application.

    Let's assume Windows XP - Which PIM do you use? Outlook Express/Outlook (to be fair, they use the same basic database structure)? Lotus Notes? GroupWise? Thunderbird? Palm Desktop? Each one of those use a different database structure, and would require different snapins.

    I too want my contacts on my desktop computer to be in sync with my handheld. I fully expect to have what I want in the next few weeks. However, the details of what I want are surely different from the details of what you want. The details is the problem.
  6. #6  
    1. Windows. 95% of the free world. F the other 5%. let MarkSpace or third party deal with the other 5%.
    2. Outlook. 95% of the free world. F the other 5%. third party can fill in the gap.
    3. Minimal. but the question is - what is the cost NOT to support it? can they afford NOT to offer local sync?
    4. Cloud is great in theory but the world is not there yet. the Cloud is still in Beta.
  7.    #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by Gekko View Post
    1. Windows. 95% of the free world. F the other 5%. let MarkSpace or third party deal with the other 5%.
    2. Outlook. 95% of the free world. F the other 5%. third party can fill in the gap.
    3. Minimal. but the question is - what is the cost NOT to support it? can they afford NOT to offer local sync?
    4. Cloud is great in theory but the world is not there yet. the Cloud is still in Beta.
    1. I think your numbers are off, considerably
    2. See #1
    3. I think the answer is probably yes, but almost definitely "we're about to find out"
    4. You don't understand the term "beta", or likely "cloud". The cloud has been in use for over a decade, I've got the networking diagrams to prove it


    Now, how about a little serious discussion. The only thing I really saw coming even close was #3 (hint - "F the other..." doesn't lend itself to "serious discussion" - what you're really saying is "F others, not me").
  8. tuz
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    #8  
    This may be unwise, but I stopped reading after "Mac users always have had to pay extra for sync programs."

    I've used Palm Desktop, free on Palm.com, on my Mac since I got my Treo almost 3 years ago.

    But I think I'll be ready if CalDav syncs iCal with Google the way everyone says it does. And if I have to just rely on Google I think I will adapt, just like I'll adapt to the loss of my lovely 5-way.
  9. #9  
    I am currently using GSync (Google's free sync client for mobile phones) for WM on my Diamond and prior to that GSync for BB. Syncing wirelessly both ways with Gmail Contacts and Google Calendar.

    There is no way in hell I would want to sync with a desktop again ... it seems so... primitive.
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    1. I think your numbers are off, considerably
    2. See #1
    3. I think the answer is probably yes, but almost definitely "we're about to find out"
    4. You don't understand the term "beta", or likely "cloud". The cloud has been in use for over a decade, I've got the networking diagrams to prove it


    Now, how about a little serious discussion. The only thing I really saw coming even close was #3 (hint - "F the other..." doesn't lend itself to "serious discussion" - what you're really saying is "F others, not me").
    herbie, we're tired of going around and around with you on this. you're not going to change the world. millions and millions of consumers and business people use LOCAL OUTLOOK and they are not going to switch to the fkin cloud for you or anybody else. GOT IT?

    CHOICE WINS.
  11.    #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by tuz View Post
    This may be unwise, but I stopped reading after "Mac users always have had to pay extra for sync programs."

    I've used Palm Desktop, free on Palm.com, on my Mac since I got my Treo almost 3 years ago.

    But I think I'll be ready if CalDav syncs iCal with Google the way everyone says it does. And if I have to just rely on Google I think I will adapt, just like I'll adapt to the loss of my lovely 5-way.
    My apologies. I'm not a Mac user, so did not realize this. I thought I had read several times in the past that Mac users purchased sync software.
  12.    #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by Gekko View Post
    herbie, we're tired of going around and around with you on this. you're not going to change the world. millions and millions of consumers and business people use LOCAL OUTLOOK and they are not going to switch to the fkin cloud for you or anybody else. GOT IT?

    CHOICE WINS.
    Ahhh, I see when I mentioned "serious discussion", you made a choice (but it does look like I touched a bit of a nerve there...)

    I'm willing to bet you that millions of consumers and business people are willing to change. Wanna take me up on the bet?
  13. #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Ahhh, I see when I mentioned "serious discussion", you made a choice (but it does look like I touched a bit of a nerve there...)

    I'm willing to bet you that millions of consumers and business people are willing to change. Wanna take me up on the bet?
    herbie, why do you keep beating this horse to death? what's with this <<edited by berd>> crusade for the cloud? YES, i believe the cloud is the future and in 10 years everyone will use it. but we are far from there. your mission to single handedly convert everyone over to the cloud has grown tiresome.
    Last edited by berdinkerdickle; 05/22/2009 at 02:37 AM.
  14. #14  
    I use local Outlook and I'm ready to make the break with desktop sync. I'm tried of all the issues with syncing to the desktop.
  15. Xyg
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    #15  
    I want to be able to Sync to my Outlook directly too
  16. #16  
    How about this, Palm always had desktop sync. Other phones on the market also offer it.

    Ultimately do you think not including desktop sync will net them more customers?

    or do you think that some may be turned off and not buy the Pre as a result?


    I think they will turn off more customers than they attract. Cloud is a nice feature and I will use it over desktop sync but there will be others that either do not want to use it or are not allowed to because of work. This cost them more than it nets them.

    They could have included the option for both, cover 95% of the computer market and also have cloud. That is the better option. End of story.
  17. #17  
    I am with Herbie ... the cloud is where its at. I am a Mac user and I have used Outlook in the past along with it's Mac equivalent Entourage. Outlook, Entourage, iCal, Address Book are all great apps and work well. But they all have one weakness (I am talking from a consumer POV)... syncing them with a mobile phone requires a physical connection or at least a Bluetooth connection.

    MobileMe/iPhone syncs with iCal ... but comes only on the iPhone and an additional cost with MobileMe.

    I used Missing Sync to sync my phone's calendar with iCal for my Blackberry, Nokia E71 and HTC Diamond. Any changes or additions to my contacts or calendar that were done away from my desktop would not be reflected there until I came home and synced my phone with my desktop.

    Now that I have migrated over to Gmail Contacts and Google Calendar, any change I make is synced wirelessly to the other. I can be out and have the wife add a family outing to the Google Calendar and have it on my phone pretty much within a minute.

    I realize that many people are locked into their desktop PIM.... I was too. But I can honestly say that after "cutting the USB cord" now for almost half a year, there is no way I would want to go back to tethered syncing.
  18.    #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by Gekko View Post
    herbie, why do you keep beating this horse to death? what's with this fkn crusade for the cloud? YES, i believe the cloud is the future and in 10 years everyone will use it. but we are far from there. your mission to single handedly convert everyone over to the cloud has grown tiresome.
    Why do you read (and respond) if you're so tired? But, to answer your question, read the post immediately following yours.

    It's not crusade, it's a discussion. I realize it's contrary to what you want to do, but guess what, your name ain't Sol, I don't think there's much in the galaxy that revolves around you...
  19. #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by rambo47 View Post
    I want my contacts on my desktop computer to be in sync with my handheld. I can do this with all my other smartphones and some of my dumb phones.

    I want my email to sync between my desktop client and my mobile.

    Same with tasks and notes. How can a device not do this in the 21st century?
    I'd much prefer the ability to edit my data on any machine connected to the internet. I have a computer at work, at home and a laptop. With Synergy I can add a gmail contact on my phone and have it available to me on all three other devices instantly. Welcome to the future.
  20. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by Twisted-D View Post
    I'd much prefer the ability to edit my data on any machine connected to the internet. I have a computer at work, at home and a laptop. With Synergy I can add a gmail contact on my phone and have it available to me on all three other devices instantly. Welcome to the future.

    See that is the problem. Your way isn't the only way. They have the ability to do both and that is how it should be so the consumer chooses how to sync.

    What is this Apple? Where they tell me what I need and what I can do?

    If they did something like this and Palm offered it many here would be all over Apple and rightfully so.
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