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  1. #61  
    I started out being really bothered by the lack of desktop sync, but over the course of a couple weeks after the announcement, came around to really liking the idea of the cloud. I'm sure everyone's needs, circumstances and experiences are different, but here's how I got there.

    For years, I've been syncing my PalmOS device (series of PDAs, then a Treo) against my home PC with Palm Desktop and a work PC that was partially syncing Palm Desktop and partially syncing against Lotus Notes with a series of different 3rd party solutions foisted on me by our IT department. Most of the time, things worked. But every once and a while, things just got ugly.

    Docs 2 Go would get confused about which of the 3 platforms (2 PCs plus device) had the latest edit of a document, and it would duplicate the file to avoid loosing something. I'd open D2G one day and find 10-15 copies of a document.

    When my calendar got corrupted every once and a while (happens!), after restoring from backup, every entry that originated on Lotus Notes would be treated as a new meeting at work. So everyone listed as an attendee would get a meeting invitation from me, with the same time/description as the original. And my phone would start ringing with people wanting to know why I just invited them to 50 meetings, all of which conflict with something already on their calendar - didn't I check availability???

    I think it was asforme in this thread that articulated it in a way that made me see the problem.

    With syncing, there is no authoritative owner of the data, it could be the device with the latest updated information, or it could be one of multiple computers if that's the way your syncing. IMO the server/client model is much better.
    My problems were all caused by the lack of an authoritative owner of bits of data. Sync worked pretty well most of the time, but my hodgepodge of 4 different repositories occasionally threw a monkey wrench into things.

    I've been pseudo-cloud-based ever since. I stopped syncing at work altogether. My PC there uses CompanionLink to do a one-way mirroring of my work calendar up to Google Calendar. I do a bi-directional sync between Google and my Palm Desktop / Treo at home. Lotus Notes and GCal are the authoritative owners for my work and home calendars respectively. Gmail is the authoritative owner of my contacts. Palm Desktop on my home PC owns everything else.

    Bottom line: my life and data will be simpler and more secure from corruption once I go totally cloud rather than this half-way step. Your mileage and circumstances may vary.
  2. #62  
    Quote Originally Posted by jmeray View Post
    The servers are INTRANET.
    That's why the pre has wifi.
  3. jmeray's Avatar
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    #63  
    Quote Originally Posted by asforme View Post
    That's why the pre has wifi.
    ummm thats great if you are sitting in your office. ...and if your company allows direct communication Cell<--->Exchange. Many major corps only allow blackberries to do it.
    Also, if you telecommute 1 or more days a week, then you not only need wifi, you also need a VPN tunnel. iPhone gives you one. I have not heard of PALM giving you one, so i'm back to square one on that.

    Palm... please provide VPN client prior to launch. (yeah right)
    _________________________
    - Wife has the PALM Pre
    - I carry the iPhone 3GS
    - Who says you can't have it all?
    - Jabra JX10
    - IBM Thinkpad
    - Hot chick Avatar


    ...ahhh, life is good.
  4. #64  
    Quote Originally Posted by asforme View Post
    That's why the pre has wifi.
    Many corporate networks do not allow wifi access.
  5. #65  
    Quote Originally Posted by dwhitman View Post
    My problems were all caused by the lack of an authoritative owner of bits of data. Sync worked pretty well most of the time, but my hodgepodge of 4 different repositories occasionally threw a monkey wrench into things.
    I think your problems were caused by the mashup of different PIM software you were using. I only sync to outlook on my various PCs and use Keysuite on my Centro rather than the built in apps. I never have a problem, all fields are synced perfectly every time, conflicts are handled gracefully.
  6. krische's Avatar
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    #66  
    Is everyone just afraid of change or something?

    I haven't used a desktop client in years. It is really not that hard. I use exchange and google.

    For exchange:
    contacts: it is really simple to just have all of your contacts stored on the exchange server. The pre would then just connect to your server and update your contacts to/from that server.
    email: obviously all your email is stored on the exchange server unless you delete it from there. (just because you view it in outlook, doesn't mean it still isn't on the server, outlook just caches it)
    calendar: same as email. All of your events are stored on the server as well. outlook just syncs and caches with the server.

    For gmail/google calendar:
    obviously everything is all on google's servers. pre just syncs with it.

    Once you realize that there is no real need for a desktop client, it gets easier to understand. Just think of the pre as another desktop.
  7. #67  
    Google causes problems like duplicate entries on lots of devices. BlackBerrys fall prey to this often. At least mine did. I'd prefer to avoid Google completely if I can.

    If Palm makes it hard or impossible for users of other devices who are not on an exchange server to get their contacts transferred over they're going to lose sales. I've got 482 contacts in my BlackBerry Bold right now and I know of plenty of folks with way more than that. If Palm makes it impossible for folks like me to transfer contacts/notes/etc they're making the Pre a non-starter right out of the box.
  8. #68  
    Thought I'd post this here since it relates somewhat. Some dude over on Engadget reports he tooled around with a Pre and he mentioned this little tidbit:

    touchthis @ May 21st 2009 9:25AM
    its had the org cover. glossy black plastic. I have yet to see the touchstone technology in person. Oh another thing, the whole Palm server account that backs up all you personal stuff OTA is awesome!!!!

    So that looks like Palm is going to include some sort of over the air backup/storage option. This will not satisfy the desksync advocates, but it does give some reassurance to those who are troubled by a lack of backup.
    VisorPhone Clone
    (Please do not thank me - I find it scary)
  9. jmeray's Avatar
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    #69  
    Quote Originally Posted by krische View Post
    Is everyone just afraid of change or something?

    I haven't used a desktop client in years. It is really not that hard. I use exchange and google.

    For exchange:
    contacts: it is really simple to just have all of your personal contacts are stored on the exchange server. The pre would then just connect to your server and update your contacts to/from that server.
    email: obviously all your email is stored on the exchange server unless you delete it from there. (just because you view it in outlook, doesn't mean it still isn't on the server, outlook just caches it)
    calendar: same as email. All of your events are stored on the server as well. outlook just syncs and caches with the server.

    For gmail/google calendar:
    obviously everything is all on google's servers. pre just syncs with it.

    Once you realize that there is no real need for a desktop client, it gets easier to understand. Just think of the pre as another desktop.

    I doubt anyone is afraid... the problem is, your scenario doesnt work for everyone. In my corporation, personal contacts are stored on the local outlook, not on the exchange server. Mail, same way, once it replicates, the mail is gone from the server. This is a method of conserving space for the corp due to thousands of mailboxes & millions of pieces of mail. Calendar, similar situation. Additionally, the exchange server is not accessible via internet (the cloud) or by anything other than a blackberry (security protocol).

    For gmail/Google stuff, sure, the cloud works great, but thats for personal data. I need a solution for personal "and" business. Which is what this phone was touted as "bringing together your business & personal worlds into 1 view".

    I won't go into wanting my word docs sync'd as well, cuz i do, but lets not even go there for now.
    _________________________
    - Wife has the PALM Pre
    - I carry the iPhone 3GS
    - Who says you can't have it all?
    - Jabra JX10
    - IBM Thinkpad
    - Hot chick Avatar


    ...ahhh, life is good.
  10. #70  
    Quote Originally Posted by sir_mycroft View Post
    Thought I'd post this here since it relates somewhat. Some dude over on Engadget reports he tooled around with a Pre and he mentioned this little tidbit:

    touchthis @ May 21st 2009 9:25AM
    its had the org cover. glossy black plastic. I have yet to see the touchstone technology in person. Oh another thing, the whole Palm server account that backs up all you personal stuff OTA is awesome!!!!

    So that looks like Palm is going to include some sort of over the air backup/storage option. This will not satisfy the desksync advocates, but it does give some reassurance to those who are troubled by a lack of backup.
    Yup. http://www.precentral.net/sprint-lea...ement-and-more
    "'Form follows function' that has been misunderstood. Form and function should be one, joined in a spiritual union."
    Frank Lloyd Wright
  11. krische's Avatar
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    #71  
    Quote Originally Posted by jmeray View Post
    I doubt anyone is afraid... the problem is, your scenario doesnt work for everyone. In my corporation, personal contacts are stored on the local outlook, not on the exchange server. Mail, same way, once it replicates, the mail is gone from the server. This is a method of conserving space for the corp due to thousands of mailboxes & millions of pieces of mail. Calendar, similar situation. Additionally, the exchange server is not accessible via internet (the cloud) or by anything other than a blackberry (security protocol).

    For gmail/Google stuff, sure, the cloud works great, but thats for personal data. I need a solution for personal "and" business. Which is what this phone was touted as "bringing together your business & personal worlds into 1 view".

    I won't go into wanting my word docs sync'd as well, cuz i do, but lets not even go there for now.
    Wouldn't you be able to use Microsoft ActiveSync in your case then? The Pre does support ActiveSync.
  12. #72  
    Quote Originally Posted by krische View Post
    Is everyone just afraid of change or something?

    I haven't used a desktop client in years. It is really not that hard. I use exchange and google.

    For exchange:
    contacts: it is really simple to just have all of your contacts stored on the exchange server. The pre would then just connect to your server and update your contacts to/from that server.
    email: obviously all your email is stored on the exchange server unless you delete it from there. (just because you view it in outlook, doesn't mean it still isn't on the server, outlook just caches it)
    calendar: same as email. All of your events are stored on the server as well. outlook just syncs and caches with the server.

    For gmail/google calendar:
    obviously everything is all on google's servers. pre just syncs with it.
    Fear has nothing to do with it. I am not interested in storing my contacts or calendar on google's servers though I do get my personal email from there. I cannot connect my personal smartphone to the corporate exchange server nor do I want to pay for a private exchange account (Gmail works really well and is free, ditto my desktop sync).
  13. #73  
    Quote Originally Posted by krische View Post
    Wouldn't you be able to use Microsoft ActiveSync in your case then? The Pre does support ActiveSync.
    The Pre supports Exchange Active Sync. Doesn't help you if the data is not in Exchange.
  14. jmeray's Avatar
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    #74  
    Quote Originally Posted by krische View Post
    Wouldn't you be able to use Microsoft ActiveSync in your case then? The Pre does support ActiveSync.
    No. unfortunately, only executives have pure access to the exchange serevers, and even then they are limited to a very very few handsets. This is why a solution for business users, would be great. I dont care if its palm or 3rd party as long as it works.
    _________________________
    - Wife has the PALM Pre
    - I carry the iPhone 3GS
    - Who says you can't have it all?
    - Jabra JX10
    - IBM Thinkpad
    - Hot chick Avatar


    ...ahhh, life is good.
  15. #75  
    Jeez. I think there have been some great explanations so far as to why it is critical for lots of people to have a desktop sync option. Let's forget the 95% thing. There are literally millions of people that use Outlook each day and depend on the mobile device to be synced. Most of them are on Exchange I guess, but that leaves a whole lot of business users who aren't.

    A simple process has to happen. One of those people sends another a meeting invitation over Outlook. That person syncs it to their mobile device. That person is reminded of the meeting and shows up.

    Trust me, if this simple process doesn't happen then American business will grind to a halt. The stock market will collapse and chaos will ensue.

    There must be a desktop sync option.
  16. #76  
    Have you by chance told your IT Dept that you're syncing your phone to outlook? As a IT Administrator at my business, I'd imagine that if they're limiting access it's because they do not believe handheld devices have sufficient security and do not want cooperate data to be stored on them. If your IT Department doesn't want your phone connecting to exchange, it's likely they wouldn't be too thrilled to discover that you're bypassing their security by using outlook as a conduit.

    And if business users don't have a hosted calendar/mail/contacts solution they're already far behind the curve in efficiency. Lets take your situation:
    Quote Originally Posted by Sprockethead View Post
    One of those people sends another a meeting invitation over Outlook.
    Hopefully it will be at a time that is okay for everyone, because there's no way to check availability because the recipient's calendar doesn't live anywhere accessible to the sender. And hopefully the recipient doesn't fetch the email message on his laptop and forget to use his handheld to carry the data over to his desktop, because now the desktop has no other way to get the message.

    This is not a simple process at all. It is a process where every user is expected to understand how the data works and be able to make sure that each device is consistently synced in the right order and is forced to remember which device may have the latest version of the data.

    Palm is trying to get smartphones into the hands of those who don't care to complicate their lives anymore by having to remember an entire business process just to make sure they can get to their data when they need it. People want things to just work, with the latest data on all their clients without having to worry about anything.
  17. #77  
    in my experience, the IT Guys are the laziest, cheapest, most paranoid employees in the company.
  18. #78  
    And in my experience, the people with a chip on their shoulder about IT tend to be the least knowledgeable yet most confident employees who despite they're knowing how to do everything better than we do it are incapable of following the simplest instructions. Then they blame our computers for being slow and insist that they can't have any viruses because they installed AntiVirus 2009. And when we have to shut down their email account and force them to change their password because it's been stolen and has been sending out spam to the entire company they complain that we won't let them just use their first name.

    IT guys have to act as the armed security, janitors, engineers and customer service representatives to deliver the data to clueless users.

    Oh and do explain how lazy and paranoid can coexist? It's my paranoia that keeps me busy deploying security patches for the hundereds of applications on the thousands of computers I manage. Laziness would let them and everyone else go to hell.

    Damn, looks like I'm out of fuel for this flamefest. I need to remember to grab a beer before checking these forums after work next time.
  19.    #79  
    Quote Originally Posted by Gekko View Post
    in my experience, the IT Guys are the laziest, cheapest, most paranoid employees in the company.
    And some of the best paid.

    Oh yeah, and what AsForMe said too...
  20. #80  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    And some of the best paid.

    Oh yeah, and what AsForMe said too...
    no, that'd be the executives and the salespeople. we can compare W-2s anytime you want.

    now don't you have to go change the printer paper or go look for free food or something???
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