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  1. cbrisman's Avatar
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    #41  
    What about those of us who use palm desktop as the main location for entering & updating tasks & sync to the palm to have the info on the go. How would we use the Pre for this functionality?
  2. #42  
    Palm has been syncing via cable with Outlook since I think the first devices in the 90's (I might add that it doesn't always work terrifically, but I'm sure the cloud is not going to be perfect either).

    Couldn't have been that difficult to include it with the Pre..

    I'll bet you $100 bucks that the Mossjerk and friends WILL mention that it doesn't sync via cable like every other device, after they mention the cloud sync feature.

    Now I'm sure someone will sell an app to sync via cable.. but at least some people may not buy it if it lacks such as basic feature. Kind of seems like a stupid move to me.
  3. #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by mvpsanto View Post
    i heard in some video that it can sync with itunes hmmm interesting . i have a feeling the guy demostration the phone was wrong thou its to good to be true
    As a USB mass storage device, you can sync it with iTunes with the proper iTunes plug-ins.

    Quote Originally Posted by cbrisman View Post
    What about those of us who use palm desktop as the main location for entering & updating tasks & sync to the palm to have the info on the go. How would we use the Pre for this functionality?
    Until somebody releases a third party sync solution, you're out of luck. The Pre may sync with Google Tasks (unknown if it will), but you may as well get used to entering your tasks on the phone.
    "'Form follows function' that has been misunderstood. Form and function should be one, joined in a spiritual union."
    Frank Lloyd Wright
  4. #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    First of all, I want to say I'm not talking against desktop syncing generally, just against the argument that it should be included with the Pre when you purchase it.

    I'll also say, if it does great, but in my opinion, that should not be the focus by Palm. Here are my thoughts:

    • What OS? If a sync program came with the Pre, what OS would it be for? I know, I know, it was "always" for Windows; but even that was fraught with problems. I remember waiting months for a new version of the Palm Desktop that would work with Vista (before I gave up on Vista and went back to XP). Mac Users have always had to pay extra for sync programs. The Linux guys just made their own.
    • What applications? Again, the sun doesn't rise and set to Microsoft anymore. There were "other" options in 1996 that were not supported by Palm without add-ons (GroupWise and Lotus Notes come to mind), and there are options now that didn't exist back then (GMail and Yahoo for starters). Why should purchasers have to pay extra for one application but not the other?
    • What does it cost to support? Anyone that thinks because they had it before, it'd be "easy" to do again is fooling themselves. The one has little to do with the other. The OS is definitely different, and there's no reason to believe that the underlying database is the same. The Pre may say "Palm" on it, but it not your father's OS.
      Because I used GroupWise, I always paid for an extra sync program. Everytime Palm changed the version of the Desktop, I'd have to run out and buy a new version of Intellisync. That tells me that the the conduits were changing with each new version. I suspect that Palm didn't like that, I'm sure the third party developers didn't, and I know at least one end-user that hated it.
    • The paradigm shift Face it, in the late 90's, we were using computers (and PDAs) differently than we do now. MS Outlook was free. The internet was in use, but not nearly as heavily as it is now (11% in developed nations in 1997, as opposed to 62% now, according to Wikipedia) This is a new device, with a new OS, designed for a new age in use. It should reflect that.


    I think (from all appearances) that Palm is handling this issue the right way. Throw a few of the most popular default connectors on the device to show that it can be done, and then allow third party developers to take it from there. Some services will develop there own connectors or license one (such as ActiveSync). Others will wait and see if a third party developer comes up with something, but I believe that letting the market fill each individual users need is the better choice for Palm. By "cutting ties" with the old, they allow provide fertile ground for both adoption of the new paradigm, and an opportunity for others to provide solutions for those that need the old.

    I'm looking forward to seeing what's new.

    Give me just a moment ... there ... asbestos suit on, flame away...
    Personally, I'm in favor of desktop sync solutions and, since Palm is the company that spoiled me for them, I feel, on some level, that Palm ought to provide such a (free) solution for the Pre.

    That said, I think you raise some valid points of discussion. I don't see them as threatening. I don't take them personally. And I certainly don't feel the need to flame you for simply inviting us all to explore the matter with you.

    You seem to handle the flamers better than I would, though. Congrats on that. I just had to limit my posting for the sake of my sanity.
    * Stuck patches? Partial erase worked for me.
    * Stuck virtual keyboard? Partial erase AND folder deletion worked for me.
  5. #45  
    uhh is syncing the same as "dragging&dropping" if I want to drag and drop files says, video clips or pictures, and this isnt possible would that mean, id have to do it over the internet....or what?
  6. #46  
    as a business - how and why do you alienate MILLIONS of Local MS OUTLOOK users? that's what i want to know. can someone please answer this?

    if im one of the MILLIONS of people who use local MS Outlook for my EMAIL, Contacts, Memos, Tasks, and Calendar - all integrated - and maybe even with my own domain name - do you mean you are really going to try to get me to switch to GMAIL to use your phone?????????????

    is this a good and realistic business tactic???????????????? come on!
    Last edited by Gekko; 05/21/2009 at 07:49 AM.
  7. #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by HChristianS View Post
    uhh is syncing the same as "dragging&dropping" if I want to drag and drop files says, video clips or pictures, and this isnt possible would that mean, id have to do it over the internet....or what?
    The Pre does have USB mass storage abilities. Plug it into your computer via USB and you can mount it as a USB drive that should work for drag-and-drop just as if it were a flash drive.
    "'Form follows function' that has been misunderstood. Form and function should be one, joined in a spiritual union."
    Frank Lloyd Wright
  8. #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by Derek Kessler View Post
    The Pre does have USB mass storage abilities. Plug it into your computer via USB and you can mount it as a USB drive that should work for drag-and-drop just as if it were a flash drive.
    thats what i thought, especially since the plug is there.
    maybe palm will make some NEW desktop syncing applicaion..?
  9. #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by Derek Kessler View Post
    As a USB mass storage device, you can sync it with iTunes with the proper iTunes plug-ins.
    That's what I'm hoping for. If it shows up in iTunes like other MP3 player it'll be way easier to drag songs in and make playlists.
    LG TP 1100 -> Sanyo SCP-5150 -> LG PM-325 -> Nokia 1100 -> Motorola v557 -> Treo 755p -> HTC EVO 4G

    Sprint customer since 2001
  10. #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by HChristianS View Post
    maybe palm will make some NEW desktop syncing applicaion..?
    I wouldn't count on that. For Palm, webOS is signaling as clean a break from computer dependence as possible. Feasibly, one could use the Pre without ever plugging it into a computer - and that's Palm's intent.
    "'Form follows function' that has been misunderstood. Form and function should be one, joined in a spiritual union."
    Frank Lloyd Wright
  11. fushigi's Avatar
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    #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by Gekko View Post
    as a business - how and why do you alienate MILLIONS of Local MS OUTLOOK users? that's what i want to know. can someone please answer this?

    if im one of the MILLIONS of people who use local MS Outlook for my EMAIL, Contacts, Memos, Tasks, and Calendar - all integrated - and maybe even with my own domain name - do you mean you are really going to try to get me to switch to GMAIL to use your phone?????????????

    is this a good and realistic business tactic???????????????? come on!
    Gekko, the millions of business desktops with Outlook are by and large using Outlook with an Exchange back end. They are not using POP or IMAP mail to some generic email hosting service like, say, pobox.com.

    The actual data store is Exchange. Outlook has a copy of that data store or reads it as necessary depending on the config. Desktop sync opens a conduit to Outlook to read the local copy or it passes through Outlook to Exchange. In this environment desktop sync is actually syncing with Exchange via Outlook, not so much Outlook itself. Outlook is essentially another conduit.

    For those people, eliminating desktop sync doesn't hurt anything as long as ActiveSync is available on from the Exchange server. Now, if ActiveSync is not available, there might be a problem as that business isn't "cloud ready".

    That said, there are some people who use Outlook with a hosted mail provider. I do this for personal, not business, email. But that's not an account that requires sync so in my case it doesn't matter. It may matter for others.

    I agree with hparsons that desktop sync isn't necessary for the majority of people, including business users. But there will be a need for some, and hopefully an enterprisoing third party developer will step in to fill that niche.

    Quote Originally Posted by fbeaumont
    Palm has been syncing via cable with Outlook since I think the first devices in the 90's (I might add that it doesn't always work terrifically, but I'm sure the cloud is not going to be perfect either).

    Couldn't have been that difficult to include it with the Pre..
    fbeaumont, if desktop sync is so easy, why is it that over two and a half years after Vista has been released, Palm Desktop still doesn't do USB syncing to Vista 64-bit? And doesn't sync at all to XP-64? Oh, and where's the Linux desktop sync?


    Really, eliminating Palm Desktop and desktop sync reduces the development and support burden on Palm, letting them focus more on devices and (hopefully) innovation v. compatibility with operating systems and applications from ISVs they have little to no influence with.
    - Fushigi
  12.    #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by Gekko View Post
    as a business - how and why do you alienate MILLIONS of Local MS OUTLOOK users? that's what i want to know. can someone please answer this?

    if im one of the MILLIONS of people who use local MS Outlook for my EMAIL, Contacts, Memos, Tasks, and Calendar - all integrated - and maybe even with my own domain name - do you mean you are really going to try to get me to switch to GMAIL to use your phone?????????????

    is this a good and realistic business tactic???????????????? come on!
    Quote Originally Posted by HChristianS View Post
    thats what i thought, especially since the plug is there.
    maybe palm will make some NEW desktop syncing applicaion..?
    HChristianS I don't think Palm is going to do it, but I believe you'll find 3rd party developers fill the gap.

    Gekko Palm has traditionally "alienated millions" of users by not providing synchronization solutions out of the box. Those millions of users just happened to be Lotus Notes users, GroupWise users, Linux users, etc. They cannot focus on everyone. In the case of the Pre, they apparenlty have chosen to focus on the cloud.

    I'll also take a moment to insert a somewhat personal note. If you're really tired of this type of discussion, don't ask these types of questioins. I suspect what you're really trying to say is "Agree with me or else..."

    Quote Originally Posted by Gekko View Post
    herbie, we're tired of going around and around with you on this. you're not going to change the world. millions and millions of consumers and business people use LOCAL OUTLOOK and they are not going to switch to the fkin cloud for you or anybody else. GOT IT?

    CHOICE WINS.
  13. #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by Derek Kessler View Post
    Until somebody releases a third party sync solution, you're out of luck. The Pre may sync with Google Tasks (unknown if it will), but you may as well get used to entering your tasks on the phone.
    Not an acceptable solution for me. I expect my tasks to be synced between my personal smartphone, my desktopPC, my netbook, my work desktop and my work issued BB. I can do all this with my PalmOS Centro. Its replacement will have to be equally capable.
  14. #54  
    Gekko. Wow.
    * Stuck patches? Partial erase worked for me.
    * Stuck virtual keyboard? Partial erase AND folder deletion worked for me.
  15. #55  
    Quote Originally Posted by fushigi View Post
    fbeaumont, if desktop sync is so easy, why is it that over two and a half years after Vista has been released, Palm Desktop still doesn't do USB syncing to Vista 64-bit? And doesn't sync at all to XP-64? Oh, and where's the Linux desktop sync?
    Because Palm doesn't really support Pam Desktop any more. It barely supports PalmOS.
  16. #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by rhewitt View Post
    I've never synched my phone to my desktop specifically because I am in your 95% running Outlook, Exchange, and Windows. I synch it with Exchange, and if I need to hard reset I will far-more-often-than-not be away from my desk. For all practical purposes, the data reside on my Exchange server, not on my desktop. If you are in the "95%" then isn't that true? Do you not synch your Outlook with an Exchange server? If not, then you're in the 5% and so.... ;-)
    I doubt that 95% of outlook user are using exchange once you exclude the corporate desktops. Maybe 5%.
  17. #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by Twisted-D View Post
    Do that many people honestly sync there contacts with outlook? I don't know anybody that ever has. I do however know a lot of people that A) Have gmail/facebook and B) If you ask them for a number they pull out there phones and look for the number, even if they are sitting at there computer with outlook open.
    I have been desktop syncing my contacts with Outlook for about eight years. I sync with three different PCs (one of which is connected to exchange).
  18. #58  
    I haven't done a desktop sync since I got Exchange service. No need to. Now everything I add to my phone is instantly synced to all of my computers and vice versa. It's probably the best thing that ever happened to me mobile-wise.
  19. #59  
    Quote Originally Posted by neodorian View Post
    I haven't done a desktop sync since I got Exchange service. No need to. Now everything I add to my phone is instantly synced to all of my computers and vice versa. It's probably the best thing that ever happened to me mobile-wise.
    What if you need to sync to two exchange servers or don't want to pay the extra $10 a month for a personal exchange server account.
  20. jmeray's Avatar
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    #60  
    i do believe that most of the users who sync outlook are probably corporate users. many companies do NOT allow direct sync (via cellphone) to the "cloud" (exchange servers) directly, so the CLOUD is no good for many corporate users. The servers are INTRANET.

    Oh, sync with GOOGLE then with the PRE? Yes, that works.
    However, you'll be bashed in the head by Corporate security for having your meeting notices, proprietary call-in #s & pincodes, & any data in the meeting notices message box. So... (pc)-->(google)--->(PRE).
    no good.

    Only option, for many corporate users (someone said maybe those are about 95% who sync with outlook) is a LOCAL sync.

    I agree on the side of offering the capability (3rd party app or palm) because no matter if the "cloud" is the future or not, corporate security is not going to let their employees put corporate data in the cloud. Need that local sync option for the "business" side use of my PRE.

    Or, need a 3rd party app that sits on my PC (by palm) that can securely send my outlook/etc updates from PC to the PRE in the cloud, encrypted, then the PRE can unencrypt it, which would give me instant sync, even when i'm away from my PC. (thinking outloud on that one)
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