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  1.    #1  
    There's been a lot of talk about using "the cloud" vs local syncing. I've given some thought to it, but it's not been an overwhelming issue for me. I've used one form of Palm handheld or another for over 11 years now, and made the gradual evolution from purely Palm desktop, to Intellisync (the local sync version), to Novell PDA connect (I use GroupWise), and finally to GroupWise Mobile Server (an OEM product from Intellisync that pushes GroupWise email to my Treo). As I moved more and more to "over the air" synchronization, desktop synchronization became less important to me. Between doing things directly on the Palm, and using the data in GroupWise, I eventually got to the point that I seldom did any synchronization, usually only to ensure I had a good backup (and having a backup to card even minimized that).

    Now it looks like I may have to start that evolutionary process again. I don't find that particularly troublsome - I believe the systems will be there. They may be something we've not seen before, but we're going to see a lot of "never seen before" stuff with the Pre, so I don't find that problematic.

    Earlier today, in another thread, I saw something though that intrigued me. There was an article "The Case Against Cloud Computing". I found the article of interest, though I don't believe it applies 100% to the Pre, since (from my understanding), the contact information will be cached on the Pre, so it will be available even if the network is not.

    However, one part of the article particularly caught my eye - He said Consumers may be getting more comfortable with putting their pictures online or even banking online, but I'm convinced that the need for personal servers, storage, and localized computing in consumer markets will be here for some time. (My emphasis added).

    I'm a computer network engineer by trade, and have been for many years. I have always had servers around the house, so "personal server" is not a big deal to me. Even for users that don't have that level of need, the current crop of more powerful personal computers makes it easy to run AMP (Apache MySQL PHP) or even (sigh...) IIS on a users personal computer.

    That brings up what I see as a decent compromise for the "how do I do a desktop sync" folks. Surely some developer somewhere can come up with a drop in for AMP (maybe using Joomla or some other prepackaged system) and/or IIS that will fill the void. I could easily envision a backend system that would run on a PC, be accessible via WiFi and/or to a publicly exposed IP address, that would handle all of the contact information, possibly even memos and other traditional Palm type programs/data. The WebOS piece (in my vision) would read the cached information, and any other things that need to be synced (possible add-ons?), and send it to the personal server.

    Call me a dreamer, but I think this would be an oustanding way to fill the need for synchronization, and do it using the WebOS.

    Thoughts?
  2. #2  
    I may say you're a dreamer, but I hope you're not the only one. I hope some daaaaaay to join you, and my Pre and laptop will live as one.

    But seriously, I think this is a cool idea. When are you going to build it?
  3. #3  
    Well home servers are definitely becoming more prominent, particularly for media purposes. It would seem like this would be a plausible means of providing cloud synchronization with home data and no reliance on third parties. Makes a lot of sense to me.
  4. Q
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    #4  
    If you're Linux-savvy, you can look at either Scalix or Zimbra's free downloads... Both are equivalents to an Exchange server. I'm working on this myself, though it's my first Linux project.
  5. #5  
    That's like having to build your own car because they won't provide tires anymore. C'mon, we have better things to do than figure out how to create our own home servers. Just give me a freakin' desktop app! THAT is the solution. And the ONLY solution.
  6. #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by Zorro1 View Post
    That's like having to build your own car because they won't provide tires anymore. C'mon, we have better things to do than figure out how to create our own home servers. Just give me a freakin' desktop app! THAT is the solution. And the ONLY solution.
    A desktop app is a solution, but definitely NOT the ONLY solution. We don't know what is coming down the pipes for desktop sync. It could be third party, palm could create something. The original poster offered an alternative suggestion for future cloud syncing that made sense. WebOS is probably going to be around for a while and it is likely that home servers will become more prevalent over its usable life. This method provides a good means of future-proofing the OS.
  7.    #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by Zorro1 View Post
    That's like having to build your own car because they won't provide tires anymore. C'mon, we have better things to do than figure out how to create our own home servers. Just give me a freakin' desktop app! THAT is the solution. And the ONLY solution.
    There's no such thing as "the only solution", for anything.

    Please note, we're not talking rocket science here. There are install packages that make installing/configuring an AMP server easier than installing MS Word.
  8. #8  
    OK, the only solution that most of us want is what I meant. Of course there are other solutions, but they all suck. When something is not broken, do not, repeat do not screw with it! The Palm desktop and synch have been one of the most elegant, working things we've had. It deserves preserving.
  9.    #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by Zorro1 View Post
    OK, the only solution that most of us want is what I meant. Of course there are other solutions, but they all suck. When something is not broken, do not, repeat do not screw with it! The Palm desktop and synch have been one of the most elegant, working things we've had. It deserves preserving.
    You're kidding me, right. You've acutally had an elegant, working synchronization solution for your Palm Pre. I'm impressed!! I agree with you 100% though - if you've got that, don't screw with it.

    The rest of us, we're looking for new solutions for the new devices we're getting.

    In other words, a home sync solution that is built for this operating system. I know I'm kinda weird sometimes, but I would think that a web based sync solution makes sense for a WebOS...
  10. #10  
    We all have our weirdnesses! For me, I'm an anti-Outlook guy, what a hog. I finally removed it from a home computer that just couldn't seem to run anymore, and it was suddenly fine! So I'm unwilling to go there again on my biz machine. Suppose I'm your taxguy, HP, and who knows, perhaps I am!, and your SS# and DOB are in my contact info. You really want that going to the cloud as the default setting? (No, I don't keep my client SS#'s/DOB's that way, but could, and some doofuses probably do...) So default setting is that it goes somewhere out there for the crafty to find and snag. What a system.
    Last edited by Zorro1; 04/23/2009 at 04:05 PM. Reason: spelling
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    That brings up what I see as a decent compromise for the "how do I do a desktop sync" folks. Surely some developer somewhere can come up with a drop in for AMP (maybe using Joomla or some other prepackaged system) and/or IIS that will fill the void. I could easily envision a backend system that would run on a PC, be accessible via WiFi and/or to a publicly exposed IP address, that would handle all of the contact information, possibly even memos and other traditional Palm type programs/data. The WebOS piece (in my vision) would read the cached information, and any other things that need to be synced (possible add-ons?), and send it to the personal server.

    Call me a dreamer, but I think this would be an oustanding way to fill the need for synchronization, and do it using the WebOS.

    Thoughts?
    Windows Home Server... I run one of these at home and love it... I even have it on an UPS.. lol

    http://www.microsoft.com/windows/pro...r/default.mspx

    What you are proposing could be done with the windows home server via an add-in.

    I can access the files on my home server from anyplace that has a data connection (even through I don't). It is easy to setup the process to share files (I have tested this for weeks on end)... it is based on Windows 2003 tech so it is fairly secure.

    Interesting to see what comes of the windows home server and products like the pre.
    01000010 01100001 01101110 00100000 01010100 01101000 01110010 01100101 01100001 01100100 00100000 01000011 01110010 01100001 01110000 01110000 01100101 01110010 01110011 00100001
  12.    #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by Zorro1 View Post
    We all have our weirdnesses! For me, I'm an anti-Outlook guy, what a hog. I finally removed it from a home computer that just couldn't seem to run anymore, and it was suddenly fine! So I'm unwilling to go there again on my biz machine. Suppose I'm your taxguy, HP, and who knows, perhaps I am!, and your SS# and DOB are in my contact info. You really want that going to the cloud as the default setting? (No, I don't keep my client SS#'s/DOB's that way, but could, and some doofuses probably do...) So default setting is that it goes somewhere out there for the crafty to find and snag. What a system.
    Sorry Zorro, you either don't understand the technology I'm talking about, or didn't understand my explanation.

    Outlook is not a server, it's a client.

    The "cloud" that my SS# would go to (in your scenario) would be on your computer only. No where else. Just like it would be on your computer were you to synchronize the palm with your computer.

    The only additional security issue woud be if you were to make your IP address publicly available. But you have that "ability" whether you do what I'm talking about or not, which could compromise data stored in the Palm database under the "old" method.
  13. TomD's Avatar
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    #13  
    I think that new "cloud" solutions will be popping all the time.

    For backup here's a new solution.

    Pogoplug — Access your external hard drive from anywhere on the Internet

    Just plug a USB drive, connect to your router, activate and BOOM - you got a network drive for backups.

    Simple access via browser (Mac, PC, Pre). Even can open folders to others with email and password. Looks like iDisk with no monthly fee.

    Still need some better solutions on PIM data. I'm still hoping for a good MobileMe cloud sync.
    Tom
    Pilot Prō --> M100 --> Trēō 600 --> Trēō 700p -- > Prē
  14. #14  
    Network drive for backup? I'm sorry, but I haven't seen where the Pre supports backups to anywhere but Palm, and that's only PIM data, preferences, and applications (no media). If there's eventually an OTA backup solution, then sure, Pogoplug would be great, but right now it's a pointless exercise (as far as webOS is concerned).
    "'Form follows function' that has been misunderstood. Form and function should be one, joined in a spiritual union."
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  15. TomD's Avatar
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    #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by Derek Kessler View Post
    Network drive for backup? I'm sorry, but I haven't seen where the Pre supports backups to anywhere but Palm, and that's only PIM data, preferences, and applications (no media). If there's eventually an OTA backup solution, then sure, Pogoplug would be great, but right now it's a pointless exercise (as far as webOS is concerned).
    Perhaps you missed the point. Any browser can access the drive on this system. Just drag and drop in the browser. It's not an automatic backup, but many OTA and USB backup systems can't be far off.
    Tom
    Pilot Prō --> M100 --> Trēō 600 --> Trēō 700p -- > Prē
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by Zorro1 View Post
    OK, the only solution that most of us want is what I meant. Of course there are other solutions, but they all suck. When something is not broken, do not, repeat do not screw with it! The Palm desktop and synch have been one of the most elegant, working things we've had. It deserves preserving.
    "If I had asked my customers what they wanted before creating it, they would have told me a faster horse" -Henry Ford (unsouced)

    Pam is forcing you to adapt to the modern world. It is natural to feel uncomfortable at first, but if you give it a chance you might just start to appreciate the advantages.
  17. #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by TomD View Post
    I think that new "cloud" solutions will be popping all the time.

    For backup here's a new solution.

    Pogoplug — Access your external hard drive from anywhere on the Internet

    Just plug a USB drive, connect to your router, activate and BOOM - you got a network drive for backups.

    Simple access via browser (Mac, PC, Pre). Even can open folders to others with email and password. Looks like iDisk with no monthly fee.

    Still need some better solutions on PIM data. I'm still hoping for a good MobileMe cloud sync.
    I saw this yesterday and was going to ask one of you "network guys" about it!
    It seems to me like a pretty good solution for the vast majority of us who are just looking for additional storage of info off the device and who are not looking to become network engineers . And, it's a drive that I own so I don't have to worry about the "cloud" going out of business and me losing my data.
    So, what do you guys thing about this PogoPlug solution? Are there any others like it out there? Anybody using this now?
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    #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by majorhavoc View Post
    I saw this yesterday and was going to ask one of you "network guys" about it!
    It seems to me like a pretty good solution for the vast majority of us who are just looking for additional storage of info off the device and who are not looking to become network engineers . And, it's a drive that I own so I don't have to worry about the "cloud" going out of business and me losing my data.
    So, what do you guys thing about this PogoPlug solution? Are there any others like it out there? Anybody using this now?
    I'm not a network guy, but I only see pogoplug as a solution if you already have an external USB hard drive doing nothing in your house. If you're going to buy a pogoplug and an external USB hard drive, then you might as well buy a Linksys or Maxtor media server.
  19. #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhody View Post
    I'm not a network guy, but I only see pogoplug as a solution if you already have an external USB hard drive doing nothing in your house. If you're going to buy a pogoplug and an external USB hard drive, then you might as well buy a Linksys or Maxtor media server.
    How easy/difficult is it to set up a Linksys or Maxtor media server so I can access it via a web page and password?

    Thanks!
  20. TomD's Avatar
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    #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhody View Post
    I'm not a network guy, but I only see pogoplug as a solution if you already have an external USB hard drive doing nothing in your house. If you're going to buy a pogoplug and an external USB hard drive, then you might as well buy a Linksys or Maxtor media server.
    These things look like they are tailored for pictures and music. They appear to try to grab files from nodes on your local network. Looks like overkill for backup.

    This whole area is new enough that it may take us a while to sort things out.

    I like the idea of having a simpler backup device like the Pogo. External drives are cheap. A device not tied to somebody's proprietary software appeals to me.
    Tom
    Pilot Prō --> M100 --> Trēō 600 --> Trēō 700p -- > Prē
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