Palm employee discusses lack of microSD at Facebook

nlowhor · 01/22/2009, 09:25 PM

Matt Crowley, recently featured at http://blog.palm.com, answers some questions in a Facebook discussion group at http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?to...id=32915930478

His discussion of the internet as a big microSD card maybe implies some solution for media and files synced/stored in the cloud?

"Great questions. Thanks for getting involved and sharing your excitement about Palm Pre.

Okay, let me get into some of these questions and comments. Some I can answer, some I can’t. Some you won’t like, some you will. I will do my best here. But whatever the case I do appreciate your input and it does matter.

microSD:
‘Design’ was the highest goal on the Palm Pre project. The phone has to look and function great in the hand and up against the face on a call. The decision to include or not include expandable storage is an easy one when design is the highest priority. The physical size of the device would have been compromised if we added another physical component to Pre. Just a millimeter can seriously impact the curvature of the design in a way that minimizes the design intent. We wanted to maintain a slick curved slider design without building out too much thickness. When you look at the two parts of the product and see how thin they really are, you may be amazed that we were able to fit everything in. And yes, all the stuff does fit.

The other advantage of embedded memory is that you have a large amount of storage out of the box for media and files. Including 8GBs of storage on the phone is a large amount of storage for many people, but not all. Yes, not all. We know that not everyone will be happy, but that is one of many decisions that needs to be made and the product goals help define these decisions.

The last point I will make on storage is to think about how you currently use remote storage. For example, I have my Google Calendar for family events and I have my corporate EAS Outlook calendar. These calendars are pulled down from remote storage (Internet) to my device. If my device is new, all I need to do is log into my account(s) and the content gets pulled to my device over the air. This is true for Contacts as well. We call this "Synergy". This is something that is just straight out cool. Contacts are now pulled down from the web to my device. So if you update your Facebook contact information, and I am friends with you, your contact information will be updated on my Palm Pre address book. Think about that for a second. I no longer need to cable my device to my computer to make an update to my contacts. I get the updates over the air. Now my contact information is more up to date and if my device is replaced or new, I just enter my account information and I get it over the air to the device. This puts a whole new thought on external storage. The Internet is a BIG microSD card.

One Handed Operation:
We made sure that we designed the device and the user interface around one handed operation. A good example of this is the Back gesture. The Back gesture is a flick from right to left on either side of the Center button. You can be right handed or left handed (like me) to navigate back."

Syphon · 01/22/2009, 09:29 PM

Nice, thanks for the find.

The Phone Diva · 01/22/2009, 09:35 PM

His argument about size doesn't fly though. I have thin phones with microSD slots.

Syphon · 01/22/2009, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Phone Diva

His argument about size doesn't fly though. I have thin phones with microSD slots.

I agree. Even the Razr, which is pretty thin, has a MicroSD slot.
Although I would have liked MicroSD on the phone, I can live without it. 8GB is enough for my multimedia needs.

dave75 · 01/22/2009, 09:44 PM

For a slider with a 3.5mm headset jack, touchscreen, removable battery, etc it's pretty small. I don't think you can say that they could fit a microSD slot in without making the device bigger.

nlowhor · 01/22/2009, 09:46 PM

I'd like to have microSD, but I've got 8 GB in my 800w with like 3-4 GB free. I know 8 GB is enough for now. By the time I really feel the need for more, it'll be time for my next WebOS device.

They did cram a lot in there when you look at the pic from the side with it slid open. Those 2 parts are pretty thin.

jmg_P1OS21 · 01/22/2009, 09:57 PM

I have a 16GB SHDC and I only ever have less than 1GB (if that) ever free...

no room for a MicroSD? Where will they find the room for a SIM card on a GSM Pre?
(I would not care if it's underneath the battery, it would be a PITA and NOT ideal in such a nicely thought out Pre design though...)

jhoff80 · 01/22/2009, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Syphon

I agree. Even the Razr, which is pretty thin, has a MicroSD slot.

To be fair, the Razr doesn't have GPS, a touchscreen, a mechanical slider, etc etc.

Or it could be just that there was no more room on the circuitboard for another component.

TurboTiger · 01/22/2009, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nlowhor

if my device is replaced or new, I just enter my account information and I get it over the air to the device. This puts a whole new thought on external storage. The Internet is a BIG microSD card.

This assumes all of your info is going through the cloud. So if you choose not to send SplashID and my Outlook info that contains sensitive info through the cloud, you'll be SOL with a new or replaced device until you get home and sync thorugh companionlink. Whereas now with my Centro, I just stick my sd card right into the new or replaced device and hit restore on BackupMan and I've got everything on new/replace device.

I hope I can over this cloud stuff but so far I'm stuck. But I continued to read and try to be open about these new things.

Good Luck.

johncc · 01/22/2009, 10:06 PM

Quote:

The physical size of the device would have been compromised if we added another physical component to Pre. Just a millimeter can seriously impact the curvature of the design in a way that minimizes the design intent. We wanted to maintain a slick curved slider design without building out too much thickness.

Nice try Matt, but I don't buy it.

schnoid · 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmg_P1OS21

no room for a MicroSD? Where will they find the room for a SIM card on a GSM Pre?

That's exactly what I was thinking! microSD is soooo small and it could fit in a quarter the space of a sim card. For all i care, they could include microSD on the CDMA model and not include it on the GSM model. If someone really needs microSD they can go to sprint. I'm still whole heartily think that Palm left out for the same reason iphone does. They're banking on the fact that people will buy a 16GB, 32GB, etc model of the same phone. Sure it might be a good marketing scheme, but its really annoying for those of us that have come to really appreciate a sd/miniSD/microSD slot on our phones. Please palm, if you read this, don't turn into apple! I think the Pre will be revolutionary but there is still so much you'll be able to do for future phones like video conferencing

dave75 · 01/22/2009, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johncc

Nice try Matt, but I don't buy it.

I agree, pretty weak argument. They could have made it a little bigger and I don't think they would have had many complaints, but it is small for everything that's in there.

As for the SIM card, I have no idea. Maybe there are fewer components in a GSM phone than the CDMA. Or maybe they left the space for the SIM card, but they're not going to have an sd slot on the CDMA and not on the GSM. Or maybe they will grow the device. Don't know.

SedahDrol · 01/22/2009, 11:06 PM

Well since they have a micro usb port they could just simply enable the ability to use a usb flash drive and solve their problem. Enabling this feature would simply be a software issue.

decypher44 · 01/22/2009, 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SedahDrol

Well since they have a micro usb port they could just simply enable the ability to use a usb flash drive and solve their problem. Enabling this feature would simply be a software issue.

That is some great thinking. And if Palm doesn't make it work, someone else might.

KrazyRogue · 01/22/2009, 11:26 PM

Maybe they'll introduce a 16gb Pre at MWC along with the GSM version. Now wouldn't that be cool. Buy hey, who knows.

pgh1969pa · 11:55 PM

Palm has always been good at rationalizing about features they left out. Before they finally got around to adding WiFi to a Palm OS device, the company and it's ******* (Jeff Kirvin) would rationalize that WiFi was not necessary. Now it's hard to find a competitive smartphone without it. Now microSD storage is the new WiFi.

Regardless of what they think customers need, the best two reasons to include external storage are 1) most smartphones have it and 2) customers want it. Sure, the iPhone doesn't have it, but you can get a larger capacity iPhone.

It just seems like they are trying to steal some pages out of the Apple playbook and that's one of the decisions made on the iPhone. They should've copied Apple's larger memory if that is the case.

sivan · 01/22/2009, 11:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TurboTiger

This assumes all of your info is going through the cloud. So if you choose not to send SplashID and my Outlook info that contains sensitive info through the cloud, you'll be SOL with a new or replaced device until you get home and sync thorugh companionlink. Whereas now with my Centro, I just stick my sd card right into the new or replaced device and hit restore on BackupMan and I've got everything on new/replace device.

I hope I can over this cloud stuff but so far I'm stuck. But I continued to read and try to be open about these new things.

Good Luck.

BT/USB file transfer is easier and fast enough. The data you'd want to back up such as the SplashID database isn't large.

I'll take onboard memory and solid connectivity options over the SD card BS any day. It ****es me off that manufacturers are still shipping devices with 128MB with a cheesy SD card slot for a solution.

MannyZ28 · 01/22/2009, 11:44 PM

I have a 8 gb card in my current Sprint touch, and I am barely using 1 gb of it. As long as you don't carry tons of music and movies with you, 8gb will go a long way. Yeah I am ****ed that I can't use that card, but oh well, got enough room to play with, and for me it's just not a deal killer. None of us are engineers, so who knows if size really is or isn't the issue. It's not just the size of card itself, you have to find a place to stick it in to as well. There are so many things in that phone, they have to sit in a certain way architectually, so just because there is some room SOMEWHERE in the phone into which a micro SD card would fit, it still needs to be in a accessible location.

Anyways, this whole cloud thing sounds great, but...I am kinda old school, I type in my contacts and phone numbers, I use Outlook Express, so what's an easy way to have the cloud rain information onto my new Pre when I get it? Will it accept a CSV file?

pgh1969pa · 01/22/2009, 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MannyZ28

I have a 8 gb card in my current Sprint touch, and I am barely using 1 gb of it.

I could kill a 8GB card easy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MannyZ28

None of us are engineers, so who knows if size really is or isn't the issue.

Speak for yourself....I am an engineer.

VaccPalm · 01/22/2009, 11:52 PM

For me the important usage of the cars i daily backups. On the road and you lose all your data. Backup files are pretty big since they back up the whole phone. Im not sure how you would backup without a SD card. Backup using the cloud ?

01/22/2009, 09:25 PM	#1 (permalink)
nlowhor Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 440 Likes Received: 0 Thanks: 16 Thanked 32 Times in 26 Posts	Palm employee discusses lack of microSD at Facebook Matt Crowley, recently featured at http://blog.palm.com, answers some questions in a Facebook discussion group at http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?to...id=32915930478 His discussion of the internet as a big microSD card maybe implies some solution for media and files synced/stored in the cloud? "Great questions. Thanks for getting involved and sharing your excitement about Palm Pre. Okay, let me get into some of these questions and comments. Some I can answer, some I can’t. Some you won’t like, some you will. I will do my best here. But whatever the case I do appreciate your input and it does matter. microSD: ‘Design’ was the highest goal on the Palm Pre project. The phone has to look and function great in the hand and up against the face on a call. The decision to include or not include expandable storage is an easy one when design is the highest priority. The physical size of the device would have been compromised if we added another physical component to Pre. Just a millimeter can seriously impact the curvature of the design in a way that minimizes the design intent. We wanted to maintain a slick curved slider design without building out too much thickness. When you look at the two parts of the product and see how thin they really are, you may be amazed that we were able to fit everything in. And yes, all the stuff does fit. The other advantage of embedded memory is that you have a large amount of storage out of the box for media and files. Including 8GBs of storage on the phone is a large amount of storage for many people, but not all. Yes, not all. We know that not everyone will be happy, but that is one of many decisions that needs to be made and the product goals help define these decisions. The last point I will make on storage is to think about how you currently use remote storage. For example, I have my Google Calendar for family events and I have my corporate EAS Outlook calendar. These calendars are pulled down from remote storage (Internet) to my device. If my device is new, all I need to do is log into my account(s) and the content gets pulled to my device over the air. This is true for Contacts as well. We call this "Synergy". This is something that is just straight out cool. Contacts are now pulled down from the web to my device. So if you update your Facebook contact information, and I am friends with you, your contact information will be updated on my Palm Pre address book. Think about that for a second. I no longer need to cable my device to my computer to make an update to my contacts. I get the updates over the air. Now my contact information is more up to date and if my device is replaced or new, I just enter my account information and I get it over the air to the device. This puts a whole new thought on external storage. The Internet is a BIG microSD card. One Handed Operation: We made sure that we designed the device and the user interface around one handed operation. A good example of this is the Back gesture. The Back gesture is a flick from right to left on either side of the Center button. You can be right handed or left handed (like me) to navigate back."
	Liked by

01/22/2009, 09:29 PM	#2 (permalink)
Syphon Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 1,010 Likes Received: 1 Thanks: 167 Thanked 189 Times in 80 Posts	Nice, thanks for the find.
	Liked by

01/22/2009, 09:35 PM	#3 (permalink)
The Phone Diva Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: No longer a member here but very unhappy at HP! Thanks for ruining your platform! Posts: 8,066 Likes Received: 1 Thanks: 137 Thanked 305 Times in 243 Posts	His argument about size doesn't fly though. I have thin phones with microSD slots. __________________ HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!! And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
	Liked by

01/22/2009, 09:44 PM	#5 (permalink)
dave75 Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 801 Likes Received: 0 Thanks: 29 Thanked 78 Times in 59 Posts	For a slider with a 3.5mm headset jack, touchscreen, removable battery, etc it's pretty small. I don't think you can say that they could fit a microSD slot in without making the device bigger.
	Liked by

01/22/2009, 09:46 PM	#6 (permalink)
nlowhor Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 440 Likes Received: 0 Thanks: 16 Thanked 32 Times in 26 Posts	I'd like to have microSD, but I've got 8 GB in my 800w with like 3-4 GB free. I know 8 GB is enough for now. By the time I really feel the need for more, it'll be time for my next WebOS device. They did cram a lot in there when you look at the pic from the side with it slid open. Those 2 parts are pretty thin.
	Liked by

01/22/2009, 09:57 PM	#7 (permalink)
jmg_P1OS21 Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Universe B Posts: 322 Likes Received: 0 Thanks: 7 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	I have a 16GB SHDC and I only ever have less than 1GB (if that) ever free... no room for a MicroSD? Where will they find the room for a SIM card on a GSM Pre? (I would not care if it's underneath the battery, it would be a PITA and NOT ideal in such a nicely thought out Pre design though...) __________________ Now it's the WAITING GAME: a GSM Palm Pre T680 (COPPER) + Cingular = FUN!! My T650 & 6230b and NX70 are retired... =( http://mrg9605.com http://ipgeek21.com noncents.net http://seresqueridos.com justdai.com reddingk.com georgeozuna.com goaskoscar.com
	Liked by

01/22/2009, 11:06 PM	#13 (permalink)
SedahDrol Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 165 Likes Received: 0 Thanks: 4 Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts	Well since they have a micro usb port they could just simply enable the ability to use a usb flash drive and solve their problem. Enabling this feature would simply be a software issue. __________________ --Nextel Blackberry 7520 -> Sprint Treo 700p -> Sprint Treo 755p -> Sprint Pre
	Liked by

01/22/2009, 11:26 PM	#15 (permalink)
KrazyRogue Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: NYC Posts: 337 Likes Received: 0 Thanks: 77 Thanked 28 Times in 18 Posts	Maybe they'll introduce a 16gb Pre at MWC along with the GSM version. Now wouldn't that be cool. Buy hey, who knows.
	Liked by

01/22/2009, 11:37 PM	#16 (permalink)
pgh1969pa Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 74 Likes Received: 0 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Palm has always been good at rationalizing about features they left out. Before they finally got around to adding WiFi to a Palm OS device, the company and it's ******* (Jeff Kirvin) would rationalize that WiFi was not necessary. Now it's hard to find a competitive smartphone without it. Now microSD storage is the new WiFi. Regardless of what they think customers need, the best two reasons to include external storage are 1) most smartphones have it and 2) customers want it. Sure, the iPhone doesn't have it, but you can get a larger capacity iPhone. It just seems like they are trying to steal some pages out of the Apple playbook and that's one of the decisions made on the iPhone. They should've copied Apple's larger memory if that is the case. Last edited by pgh1969pa; 01/22/2009 at 11:55 PM.
	Liked by

01/22/2009, 11:44 PM	#18 (permalink)
MannyZ28 Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 1,931 Likes Received: 1 Thanks: 124 Thanked 187 Times in 112 Posts	I have a 8 gb card in my current Sprint touch, and I am barely using 1 gb of it. As long as you don't carry tons of music and movies with you, 8gb will go a long way. Yeah I am ****ed that I can't use that card, but oh well, got enough room to play with, and for me it's just not a deal killer. None of us are engineers, so who knows if size really is or isn't the issue. It's not just the size of card itself, you have to find a place to stick it in to as well. There are so many things in that phone, they have to sit in a certain way architectually, so just because there is some room SOMEWHERE in the phone into which a micro SD card would fit, it still needs to be in a accessible location. Anyways, this whole cloud thing sounds great, but...I am kinda old school, I type in my contacts and phone numbers, I use Outlook Express, so what's an easy way to have the cloud rain information onto my new Pre when I get it? Will it accept a CSV file?
	Liked by

01/22/2009, 11:52 PM	#20 (permalink)
VaccPalm Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 2,300 Likes Received: 9 Thanks: 18 Thanked 127 Times in 97 Posts	For me the important usage of the cars i daily backups. On the road and you lose all your data. Backup files are pretty big since they back up the whole phone. Im not sure how you would backup without a SD card. Backup using the cloud ?
	Liked by

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