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  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by VaccPalm View Post
    For me the important usage of the cars i daily backups. On the road and you lose all your data. Backup files are pretty big since they back up the whole phone. Im not sure how you would backup without a SD card. Backup using the cloud ?
    The Palm solution would be to pull it all back down from the "cloud".
  2. hkklife's Avatar
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    #22  
    Guys, this has NOTHING to do with "engineering constraints". Threre are 3 simple reasons the Pre lacks a microSD slot:

    1. Greed (they want to sell all of us the otherwise identical 16GB Pre at full reail price that'll arrive 6 months after the 8GB version
    2. Money (Palm's notorious known to be notoriously cheap and skimping on critical features
    3. Desperation. Palm's trying to mimic Apple in as many ways as possible (you can thank Ruby for this) while one-upping them in a few others (slide-out keyboard, removable battery, Synergy)

    Apple can get around charging more $ for fewer features due to the perceived aura of exclusivity and quality surrounding all things Apple brand. Let's face it, Apple carrier a certain cachet that few other electronic/computer companies have.

    Just look at Apple's entire lineup: none of their devices, iPods, laptops, or desktops, have standard card reader slots, for example--yet the cheapest $250 generic Linux or Windows netbook has at least an SDHC slot--go figure!

    The Pre's a compelling device from a formfactor standpoint, sure. But Palm's made a few horrible design decisions that will easily take it out of contention for power users. The pitiful battery capacity is one, the lack of a microSD slot are the biggies IMO. The lesser points that can be debated--no backwards compatibility, no IR port, no stylus, no desktop Hostync--are more of a matter of user preference but I still think Palm's being a bit too arrogant in completely turning their back on 13 years of legacy Palm OS users & data. Old habits die hard and some people are completely fine with Hostyncing and taking baby steps into the cloud, dangit!

    Palm & Sprint are both pretty low on the perception ladder nowadays, so those 2 fading companies pinning their hopes to each other makes sense in an ironic way. I have a feeling that Palm's utter devotion to Sprint is going to cost them in the long run.

    I'd rather have 512mb onboard + a microSDHC slot than a fixed 8gb internally.
    Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Verizon Treo 700P-->Verizon Treo 755p-->Verizon Motorola Droid + Verizon Centro--> Verizon Motorola Droid X + Palm TX-->Verizon Droid Bionic + Palm TX
  3. Gerorne's Avatar
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    #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by pgh1969pa View Post
    Palm has always been good at rationalizing about features they left out. Before they finally got around to adding WiFi to a Palm OS device, the company and it's fanboys (Jeff Kirvin) would rationalize that WiFi was not necessary. Now it's hard to find a competitive smartphone without it. Now microSD storage is the new WiFi.

    Regardless of what they think customers need, the best two reasons to include external storage are 1) most smartphones have it and 2) customers want it. Sure, the iPhone doesn't have it, but you can get a larger capacity iPhone.

    It just seems like they are trying to steal some pages out of the Apple playbook and that's one of the decisions made on the iPhone. They should've copied Apple's larger memory if that is the case.
    Yes they finally got around to wifi, correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't that a limitation of Garnet?

    And some people may be satisfied with a little more bulk, but a lot of people are obsessed with the thinness of phones. If the phone came out a big as the Treo 650 (Edit: I should go out and actually check the width of the phone), people would then be talking about how Palm "tried again but it looks like they're still living in the past", or other similar comments. And let's not forget a small change to the thickness adds a lot of volume.

    The difference between a Centro and a Treo 650 in terms of thickness is only .2 inches (about half a centimeter), but feels like a big difference.

    The look and feel of the phone is just as important in selling the phone as the number of features. It's a good trade off for their business.

    Edit: Ok... it actually is the width of the Treo 650. Which means adding the sd card would have made it even thicker. I think that would definitely be a no no. The 650 feels big enough as it is.

    Edit again: Ack! I accidentally was comparing the widths and not depth... I knew I had to be wrong. The Pre is thinner than the Centro by .05 inches so nowhere close to the size of the Treo 650.
    Last edited by Gerorne; 01/23/2009 at 05:22 AM.
    Vx --> M515 --> T|T3 --> T|T5
    --> Treo 650 --> Centro --> Dinc

    Smart Jones - a smartphone webcomic
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by Gerorne View Post
    Yes they finally got around to wifi, correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't that a limitation of Garnet?

    And some people may be satisfied with a little more bulk, but a lot of people are obsessed with the thinness of phones. If the phone came out a big as the Treo 650 (Edit: I should go out and actually check the width of the phone), people would then be talking about how Palm "tried again but it looks like they're still living in the past", or other similar comments. And let's not forget a small change to the thickness adds a lot of volume.

    The difference between a Centro and a Treo 650 in terms of thickness is only .2 inches (about half a centimeter), but feels like a big difference.

    The look and feel of the phone is just as important in selling the phone as the number of features. It's a good trade off for their business.

    Edit: Ok... it actually is the width of the Treo 650. Which means adding the sd card would have made it even thicker. I think that would definitely be a no no. The 650 feels big enough as it is.
    755p had wifi an garnet
  5. Gerorne's Avatar
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    #25  
    Oh yeah... and of course the TX has it as well
    Vx --> M515 --> T|T3 --> T|T5
    --> Treo 650 --> Centro --> Dinc

    Smart Jones - a smartphone webcomic
  6. #26  
    It's the number of radios that is the issue, you can't have more than two on Garnet, so its either Wifi and bluetooth, or Cell radio and bluetooth.
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by pgh1969pa View Post
    I could kill a 8GB card easy.



    Speak for yourself....I am an engineer.
    Lol....the one time I over generalize!

  8. Gerorne's Avatar
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    #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by jhoff80 View Post
    It's the number of radios that is the issue, you can't have more than two on Garnet, so its either Wifi and bluetooth, or Cell radio and bluetooth.
    Ok, that's what I thought. And a quick check shows me the 755p doesn't have wi-fi. That's what had me confused.
    Vx --> M515 --> T|T3 --> T|T5
    --> Treo 650 --> Centro --> Dinc

    Smart Jones - a smartphone webcomic
  9. hkklife's Avatar
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    #29  
    No Palm OS (ie Garnet/OS5) smartphone has ever had wi-fi, not even via SDIO card, despite Colligan's promise of wi-fi card drivers for the 650 waaaaay back in '04 or so. In fact, Palm's only Garnet devices w/ wi-fi were the Tungsten C, LifeDrive and TX. Sony had a handful of Clies with wi-fi, of course.
    Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Verizon Treo 700P-->Verizon Treo 755p-->Verizon Motorola Droid + Verizon Centro--> Verizon Motorola Droid X + Palm TX-->Verizon Droid Bionic + Palm TX
  10. #30  
    yes but pdf's and office files along with music and movies are time consuming. They're also not backed up over the cloud either. They can't be shared easily by just popping the mSD card into an adapter and/or card reader. You can't upload to the phone without USB. And I don't think emailing info back and forth is convenient either which was one way I pictured trying to transfer files to and fro.

    And I don't see how card slots are BS and cheesy in any way, shape or form.
    Quote Originally Posted by sivan View Post
    BT/USB file transfer is easier and fast enough. The data you'd want to back up such as the SplashID database isn't large.

    I'll take onboard memory and solid connectivity options over the SD card BS any day. It pisses me off that manufacturers are still shipping devices with 128MB with a cheesy SD card slot for a solution.
    Pixi: Sold. Pre: Passed off to another rep. Touchpad: Just a toy until Cloud syncing arrives, and a better doc editor.
  11. #31  
    Manny didn't even make sense from the "if you don't carry music and videos" statement. Beautiful VGA screen and a 3.5" jack??? I'm going to use them to make popcorn

    And I'm not an engineer. I'm in sales. If the increased functionality of the Pre allows me to use it for a few more things that will keep me from pulling out the laptop all the time, I'll fill 8 gigs without even thinking. pdf and office files. sales literature, and technique videos. scanned in x-rays and pics of surgeries (I sell orthopedic implants). Then we can move on to the personal stuff like music, photos and videos. In regards to music, all of mine is ripped from 256 to 320kb. So that's about double the size of a 128kb song. Even less space for guys that use FLAC which I'm sure will be supported by 3rd party if it's not natively supported.
    Quote Originally Posted by pgh1969pa View Post
    I could kill a 8GB card easy.

    Speak for yourself....I am an engineer.
    Pixi: Sold. Pre: Passed off to another rep. Touchpad: Just a toy until Cloud syncing arrives, and a better doc editor.
  12. #32  
    Well, there is people who finds 8gb a poor amount of memory. Well, you have two options: don't buy or reconsider how important info is really needed to carry with the phone.

    8Gb is a huge amount for me. And is a huge amount for a lot of people. In my case (and a lot in the market, remember "market", this is the magic word) external storage is near to irrelevant, or they buy a small capacity card and puts in the phone forever). And not to put an storage slot supposes: less space (yes, it is) and less cost.

    About wifi, I don't remember any case of not having phone coberture and having wifi hotspots to connect with. Wifi is really near to unnecesary, becuse with phone data connection you can make the same with less battery usage.

    Of course, the best option is to have all te items on the phone, but I they have to remove something, this two are perfect candidates. The HTC Diamond doesn't have card slot, and people don't blame about it, because of the space.
  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by hkklife View Post
    Guys, this has NOTHING to do with "engineering constraints". Threre are 3 simple reasons the Pre lacks a microSD slot:
    These sound a lot like your baseless rants on why Palm was switching to MicroSD instead of full size SD. You were wrong then and are wrong now, tough decisions had to be made and you and I may disagree with some of them but that doesn't make it a conspiracy.

    Quote Originally Posted by hkklife View Post
    The lesser points that can be debated--no backwards compatibility, no IR port, no stylus, no desktop Hostync--are more of a matter of user preference but I still think Palm's being a bit too arrogant in completely turning their back on 13 years of legacy Palm OS users & data. Old habits die hard and some people are completely fine with Hostyncing and taking baby steps into the cloud, dangit!
    The tiny number of dedicated Palm users were not enough to keep Palm alive they had to reach out for new users and had to give them the type of whizbang features that grab customers. They may make a more legacy friendly WebOS device later so as long as the Pre is a success there is still hope, if the Pre had catered to legacy users it would not have received the buzz and attention the Pre is getting and could have easily been the end of Palm. I will wait and see how the market responds to the Pre before deciding that Palm was wrong because in the end that is all that matters.
  14. cgk
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    #34  
    I'm not bothered about the lack of SD, but the manufacturing or cost arguments don't really fly. It's about built-in obsolescence and the form of the device.

    And we've done the legacy users bit to death - but basically you don't like it - pay a Treo pro - that's your answer. Or spend a lot of money buying third party apps to get you pre to behave like it lives in 1999.
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    #35  
    The Nokia E71 is a pretty thin device, yet it has GPS, Wifi, MicroSD, a 3.2MP camera with Flash and autofocus, front facing camera and a 1500mAh battery. All this at a 10mm thick package.

    So I think when the Pre was initially designed, they consciously ruled out the microSD or maybe, just maybe, this will be introduced in a future version of the Pre. If they really wanted to include it, I think they would have found a way to do it.
  16. Gerorne's Avatar
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    #36  
    I think that's an unfair comparison because you're leaving out the touch screen and sliding out keyboard. Even the iphone 3G doesn't meet the thickness to that Nokia E71, and I'm sure Apple was also trying to get their phone as thin as possible. Here are the dimensions for the main touch phones right now (with my Centro thrown in.)

    Pre - 3.96in x 2.35 x 0.67 inches - Volume = 6.23 inches^3
    Centro - 4.22 x 2.11 x 0.73 inches - Volume = 6.50inches^3
    iPhone 3G - 4.5 x 2.4 x 0.48 inches - Volume = 5.18 inches^3
    BB Storm - 4.43 x 2.45 x .55 inches - Volume = 5.97 inches^3
    G1 - 4.6 x 2.16 x 0.62 inches - Volume = 6.16 inches^3

    Of course I don't have info on their battery sizes on here, which is another big factor.
    Last edited by Gerorne; 01/23/2009 at 07:55 AM.
    Vx --> M515 --> T|T3 --> T|T5
    --> Treo 650 --> Centro --> Dinc

    Smart Jones - a smartphone webcomic
  17. BaDZeD's Avatar
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    #37  
    The pre does have alot crammed into it so the size argument might be valid. GPS, Wifi, 3.5 mm jack, digitizer, slider mechanism etc.
    However, with a linux core, I bet it would be possible to use USB thumb drives as removable storage (as long as the pre has USB host, which it should (Pandora is built around the same TI architecture has it))
    There is room for a sim card slot as GSM radios tend to be smaller and since the diagram of it was shown at the presentation.
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    #38  
    I've been doing some searching and found a few file storage sites. anyone use one they would recommend? never having used one before, what are the chances the pre will be able to pull from and stream 20gig's worth of media files from the "cloud"?
    Devices used: Palm VIIx - Tungsten T - Tungsten T3 - HP ipaq 4155 - Tungsten T5 - BB 7520 - Treo 650 - Treo 700wx - Treo 755p - Q9c - BB 8130 - Treo 800w - HTC Touch Pro - BB 8330 - BB 8520 - HTC HD2 - Palm Pre
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    #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by deCorvett View Post
    About wifi, I don't remember any case of not having phone coberture and having wifi hotspots to connect with. Wifi is really near to unnecesary, becuse with phone data connection you can make the same with less battery usage.
    Think of WiFi as a universal plug for an internet connection whenever and wherever you don't have data coverage or don't want to pay for expensive roaming data minutes (and, uh, where wifi is available). Your laptop is portable, so that's why you need a 100-240 V charger, and the equivalent for data: wifi. Your smartphone is even more portable - why should it be without?

    Do you want your smartphone to become dumb just because you've crossed a border?
  20. #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by ehehat View Post
    I've been doing some searching and found a few file storage sites. anyone use one they would recommend? never having used one before, what are the chances the pre will be able to pull from and stream 20gig's worth of media files from the "cloud"?
    The chances that it can technically do so are excellent. But at EVDO speeds it would take ages, and Sprint's "unlimited" service is really limited to about 5GB per month.
    Bob Meyer
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