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  1. #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by dave75 View Post
    This works for contacts, tasks, and calendars too?
    I have to admit, I never tried this. Why couldn't I just load my personal contacts and calendar into exchange and have it all sync from there.
  2. #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by mobileman View Post
    I have to admit, I never tried this. Why couldn't I just load my personal contacts and calendar into exchange and have it all sync from there.
    The Pre will sync via Exchange. The problem is that for me and others is that we don't have access to an Exchange server and don't want our data stored in the cloud.

    My problems is that I don't know what Cloud Computing is and I'm always worried about security.

    I just purchased the book "Cloud Computing" by Michael Miller, in the Mobipocket format, to help me understand what it is and maybe change my mine.
  3. #43  
    the one problem is many of us don't have access to an exchange server and are not willing to pay extra to have access to one so it makes even using outlook (which I don't want to use) useless. That leaves PIM's from google and the like, and I just don't trust or want to use something that strictly relies on me having internet access to use. I'm stuck in the basement of some hospital for a day, and I can't even update my PIM on my laptop because it doesn't exist on my laptop.

    The cloud sounds great and wonderful, I think it's just narrow minded to make it the only option on a so called "revolutionary" device. I don't see why a company that's been doing desktop sync since day one would just abandon it outright on a new device and force people to change and complicate the way they normally work. I've met with no less than six docs today with palm devices that go to me for info. They all asked me about the Pre, and after all the great and wonderful things I said, I mentioned you lose the card slot and the ability to sync with your desktop. Some of these guys have outlook, but they don't have exchange and know absolutely nothing about exchange, the cloud and all that. Those two things completely deflated them about it. These are all Palm people that have put off buying into the iphone, touch and BB. And that loyalty to seeing the next big thing from palm leaves them feeling a bit lackluster about it.

    My business rep just sent me a bunch of sprint documents on the Pre actually while mentioning the talk was of a July release. Well so much for the first half of the year if that's the case, and maybe the so called delay was because of some of the negativity that's been running around on all the forums and such that gave them a bit of a rethink on some things. That's a leap, but it could be a possibility.
    Pixi: Sold. Pre: Passed off to another rep. Touchpad: Just a toy until Cloud syncing arrives, and a better doc editor.
  4. cgk
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    #44  
    Instead of repeating myself over and over, I collected my thoughts on those matters at my blog and tried to explain the basics of SaaS (software as Services)

    http://knighttime.blogspot.com/2009/...l-do-next.html

    Is that explanation of any help?
  5. #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by CGK View Post
    Instead of repeating myself over and over, I collected my thoughts on those matters at my blog and tried to explain the basics of SaaS (software as Services)

    http://knighttime.blogspot.com/2009/...l-do-next.html

    Is that explanation of any help?

    If subscription model is the wave of the future, I will be happy to remain in the past. I won't pay a monthly (or yearly) fee for any software. In addition, I refuse to store certain data on a server on the internet. I have a feeling, I'm not alone in this. Your examples of Splash ID and Quicken are both examples of sensitive data I refuse to leave on any machine but my own.
  6. cgk
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    #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by mobileman View Post
    If subscription model is the wave of the future, I will be happy to remain in the past. I won't pay a monthly (or yearly) fee for any software. In addition, I refuse to store certain data on a server on the internet. I have a feeling, I'm not alone in this. Your examples of Splash ID and Quicken are both examples of sensitive data I refuse to leave on any machine but my own.
    Note - I'm *not* trying to convince anyone to move to cloud computing (and there is certain data I wouldn't put up) but would anyone be interested in a write-up about the security models (in plain english) and the arguments that are put forth by both the pro and against camps?
  7. #47  
    Argh, so this so-called "cloud computing" is only a fancy way of saying you store/retrieve things (or data) onto/from a remote server using a data connection with your carrier? So now, I HAVE to pay my carrier extra (I'm not from the US) if I don't want my calendar/contacts/information to disappear to the ether when the device crashes??? That's just freakin' shortsighted! Well, that there's a deal-breaker for me. Dunno about y'all, but that's not a real-world solution for my money. Palm, you better give us options here.
  8. cgk
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    #48  
    Argh, so this so-called "cloud computing" is only a fancy way of saying you store/retrieve things (or data) onto/from a remote server using a data connection with your carrier?

    That's basically it - the key difference to what people here are used to is in the sync process. There generally isn't one with cloud computing (as the Pre does it), every time you make a change, that change instantly appears on all connected devices (which can be a phone or a desktop PC). It's mean to be transparent at the point of use, which means that once you've done the initial set-up - it's all automatic. You never sync anything because everything is always in sync.

    The next (logical) question is "what happens when my connection drops"?

    Well then the device always stores locally the most upto data version of the information and the next time you get a connection it polls all of the services you are connected to and makes the chances.

    Here's a practical example using ewallet - when I add some data to it on my phone, that version of the wallet is sent upto the cloud (where it is stored) and also the copy kept on my desktop machine is updated.

    Now lots of people don't want to forced into the cloud and it's interesting to note that when e-wallet tried it that:

    Do we have to sync to the cloud/internet?

    No. Honestly, this is the direction we were going with it. Frankly, with a 256-bit AES encrypted wallet file, this is an exceptionally safe option despite the misgivings some folks have. As it stands though we received MANY emails asking us to please release a local sync option first. Well, we listened, and the sync solution coming out in August will be a local sync.

    http://blog.iliumsoft.com/2008/07/25...-sync-part-ii/

    if I don't want my calendar/contacts/information to disappear to the ether when the device crashes???
    Well the idea is that if your device crashes you don't care because the information on the device is only a local copy, you just put your details in a new device and all of your information pops up. Again, many people are uncomfortable with this.
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    #49  
    This really sounds a lot like iPhone and Mobile Me. I can sync my iPhone to my calendar on my desktop and it syncs to the "Cloud" which is Mobile Me. It is really great, my desktop and iPhone are synced together all of the time. If I am with a customer in the field and need info, my iPhone is synced from the Cloud ie Mobile Me. If my secretary makes a appointment for me while I am in the field, is shows up on my phone. If the Pre works similarly it will be great.
  10. cgk
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    #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidlw View Post
    This really sounds a lot like iPhone and Mobile Me. I can sync my iPhone to my calendar on my desktop and it syncs to the "Cloud" which is Mobile Me. It is really great, my desktop and iPhone are synced together all of the time. If I am with a customer in the field and need info, my iPhone is synced from the Cloud ie Mobile Me. If my secretary makes a appointment for me while I am in the field, is shows up on my phone. If the Pre works similarly it will be great.
    It goes slightly further than the iphone model in that (as far as we know with information that might change) there is no direct desktop sync, it's all done via the cloud.
  11. #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by mobileman View Post
    I have to admit, I never tried this. Why couldn't I just load my personal contacts and calendar into exchange and have it all sync from there.
    Because that requires a BES account which is quite expensive (unless your company is paying). FYI BIS will not sync over the air. All it does is forward mail from the users POP3 and IMAP accounts (such as Google & Yahoo). IMAP support is rudimentary at best. One reason I have not switched to the BB from my PalmOS device is Chattermail is a much better IMAP client than the BB email program.

    I don't use BB desktop for my employer issued device, however I have used it to transfer my wifes contacts and calender from her BB to her home laptop. It works very well.
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    #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by CGK View Post
    Instead of repeating myself over and over, I collected my thoughts on those matters at my blog and tried to explain the basics of SaaS (software as Services)

    http://knighttime.blogspot.com/2009/...l-do-next.html

    Is that explanation of any help?
    Charles, I agree with most of what you say on here and in your blog. The SaaS model is the future. I work with a huge technology company, and they're always looking for products they can provide as a service.

    I see the SaaS model as a potential win-win. There is a continuous competition. When one service adds a feature, every competing service feels the pressure to add that feature right away rather than waiting for the next "version." And some SaaS competitors, like Mint and Quicken Online for example, eventually go free. That's why I think the MyPalm PIM service (if it exists) will be free. It would be competing with the free Google, Yahoo and Live offerings, so they will probably provide calendar and tasks for free with a lot of premium add-on services.
  13. cgk
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    #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhody View Post
    Charles, I agree with most of what you say on here and in your blog. The SaaS model is the future. I work with a huge technology company, and they're always looking for products they can provide as a service.

    I see the SaaS model as a potential win-win. There is a continuous competition. When one service adds a feature, every competing service feels the pressure to add that feature right away rather than waiting for the next "version." And some SaaS competitors, like Mint and Quicken Online for example, eventually go free. That's why I think the MyPalm PIM service (if it exists) will be free. It would be competing with the free Google, Yahoo and Live offerings, so they will probably provide calendar and tasks for free with a lot of premium add-on services.
    I think for a consumer model rather than business to business, a portal model is really the way to go. Palm approves partners and their offerings are put on the device as free apps - so a free version of ewallet, a documents to go reader etc etc etc. If you want the cloud bit, you pay and it's all done via palm or the portal.

    Otherwise, it's just too fragemented - I pay x for documents and log-on here, I pay y for a secure password app and log-on there and so on.

    I also cannot argue with your analysis about the mypalm PIM being free - paid email is only used by a very think layer of consumers and most wouldn't understand *why* you'd pay for email.


    Heh- I like how between about three or four of us, we've invented a complete palm information ecology off the back of "there is no desktop sync" but really it all fits - it just depends how radical palm wants to be.

    I said it before and I said it again, desktop sync should be seen as a panic move on the part of palm and a sign that they have lost confidence in the concept being accepted by the consumer marketplace at this time.

    As for the blog - it was all the chat here that got me to kick it off - oddly the only comment is from... Charles Knight (obviously I'm also Charles Knight).
  14. #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by CGK View Post
    Note - I'm *not* trying to convince anyone to move to cloud computing (and there is certain data I wouldn't put up) but would anyone be interested in a write-up about the security models (in plain english) and the arguments that are put forth by both the pro and against camps?
    I'm very interested in a write-up about the security models!!
  15. #55  
    Quote Originally Posted by ADGrant View Post
    Because that requires a BES account which is quite expensive (unless your company is paying). FYI BIS will not sync over the air. All it does is forward mail from the users POP3 and IMAP accounts (such as Google & Yahoo). IMAP support is rudimentary at best. One reason I have not switched to the BB from my PalmOS device is Chattermail is a much better IMAP client than the BB email program.

    I don't use BB desktop for my employer issued device, however I have used it to transfer my wifes contacts and calender from her BB to her home laptop. It works very well.
    Again, I find no need to keep two separate lists of contacts in different locations. I cant think of any advantage to doing this. I can already filter them by category, and color coordinate my calendar by personal and work.

    As for BIS, I get all my gmail and yahoo email sent into my unified mailbox on my Blackberry without ever having to do a local sync. Also, I noticed it happens almost instantly.
    Last edited by mobileman; 01/15/2009 at 10:56 AM.
  16. #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by CGK View Post
    It goes slightly further than the iphone model in that (as far as we know with information that might change) there is no direct desktop sync, it's all done via the cloud.
    MobileMe is a cloud service also. You don't do a local sync. It syncs your Email, Calendar, Contacts, Web Links, Photos and more. I could be wrong (I used a 2 month trial subscription for awhile), but there is no local sync option for MobileMe at all.
  17. cgk
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    #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by mobileman View Post
    MobileMe is a cloud service also. You don't do a local sync. It syncs your Email, Calendar, Contacts, Web Links, Photos and more. I could be wrong (I used a 2 month trial subscription for awhile), but there is no local sync option for MobileMe at all.
    Ah - I thought that you could sync the iphone locally for pim over wifi ?
  18. #58  
    Quote Originally Posted by CGK View Post
    Ah - I thought that you could sync the iphone locally for pim over wifi ?
    You can sync the iPhone locally if you wish with outlook (on a pc), or you can just sync directly to exchange or MobileMe via the "cloud"
  19. #59  
    I have no problem with the cloud, but . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by mobileman View Post
    If subscription model is the wave of the future, I will be happy to remain in the past. I won't pay a monthly (or yearly) fee ...
  20. cgk
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    #60  
    Quote Originally Posted by jaharr View Post
    I have no problem with the cloud, but . . .
    It's not going to happen overnight anyway - local based services are going to be provided for a long time for those who want them. If they are provided for the Pre.. well time will tell...
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