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  1.    #1  
    I see the growing trend of "mix" patches being made and I have a few concerns regarding this.

    I think it's best to see patches do one specific thing rather than attempting to do many things. This gives users easy preference to pick and choose what they want to do. Unless the patch can be made with user changeable preferences for each new feature being added/patched of course.

    That's a minor point but my main concern is 2-fold. First, the mix patches that combine directly features of another patch, making that other patch a subset patch of the mix patch. Subset patches have potential to break things. If the mix patch is installed, the subset will be able to be installed because the AUPT logic sees it as already applied. Now if the subset patch is subsequently removed it is going to remove what is really a portion of this mix patch. The mix patch will then fail to remove, and there are many users that do not read precentral forums as well as it will be difficult to support the many obscure cases that will arise.

    The second part to that is maintaining code in multiple places is usually more burdensome. If there are multiple .patch files all using the same hunk or block of patch code, then a bug fix, change or port requires modifying each of these patches and more-so knowing which patches need the fix.

    The open ipkg ecosystem supports dependencies and combining multiple patches into a bundled package can be done as-is very easily, without having to replicate code and cause the issues I have mentioned above.

    I understand that some mix patches are more difficult and possibly cannot work this way due to the nature of where the code is (e.g. device menu patches all need to go in the same place in html basically). But there are other things for instance the browser mega mix seems to include other patches as-is that I think would be better served as bundles.

    I would like to get the opinion of the userbase as well as patch creators and start discussing what the best solution or path going forward is.

    -Eric G

    WebOS Internals Developer.
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  2. #2  
    Quote Originally Posted by egaudet View Post
    I understand that some mix patches are more difficult and possibly cannot work this way due to the nature of where the code is (e.g. device menu patches all need to go in the same place in html basically). But there are other things for instance the browser mega mix seems to include other patches as-is that I think would be better served as bundles.
    This is the only reason why I made my mixes. By the time I had made my GPS in device menu patches, I had basically run out of space to make more patches that apply in-combination without conflict. That's why I made my device menu mixes.
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  3.    #3  
    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Robitaille View Post
    This is the only reason why I made my mixes. By the time I had made my GPS in device menu patches, I had basically run out of space to make more patches that apply in-combination without conflict. That's why I made my device menu mixes.
    Right, and these mix patches are less worrisome because they don't create subset patches. If we need a better system to separate things that require context to mix properly we can work toward that. But at least in the immediate future I want to avoid problems with subset patches that I foresee have the potential to cause issues and confusion with users.

    -Eric G

    WebOS Internals Developer.
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  4. snpalavan's Avatar
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    #4  
    a good idea is to add some kind of UI like through WOSQI that allows a combination of patches before they are applied...
    Example:
    patch for more cards for launcher
    patch for named cards in launcher
    patch for advanced options in launcher
    (im not sure how much overlap of code between these there is, but work with me)

    basically, you throw all three of these into the UI and it makes a check for any overwriting/conflicting parts and either tries to fix it itself or opens a window to show the code (or simplified version) to allow the code to be edited/fixed and become compatible

    this would make it slightly easier on devs who would still need to pay attention and be aware, but that way all of the editing is poured into one program...even allowing devs to note where the code has been fixed in order to help the UI grow more and more compatible

    This would be my idea, just a way to put whatever you want into a program and have it spit out one complete patch to apply...what do you think?
  5. #5  
    All things being equal, I'd prefer tightly focused patches that do one thing.

    I understand how the various device menu patches almost need to be combined or they'd walk on each other trying to modify the same small chunk of code, but I sure wish I could pick and choose each individual item to add or remove from the device menu - none of the many versions have exactly the mix I'd prefer.

    Edit: I originally cited the browser multimod as an overloaded patch. Thought I remembered it doing the nice keyboard navigation, plus something else that I didn't need. Reviewing the forum thread, it looks like it really only does the keyboard nav.
    Last edited by dwhitman; 03/01/2010 at 03:05 PM. Reason: apparent brain fart
  6. snpalavan's Avatar
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    #6  
    Yeah i know exactly what you mean. I avoid those and just what i call 'patch and pray' by doing each patch individually and just hoping that there isn't an issue with a patch i already have haha!

    I don't mind having all of the different options, but a way to combine those you want to make your own 'multi-patch' would be great, it would allow not so tech oriented people to customize their webOS with less worry about whether things will work together or not. Also, like i said earlier, it would help devs worry less about compatibility because that would fall on the UI that combines the various patches to check for consistency in the patches BEFORE they are placed on the phone.
  7. plee3ac's Avatar
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    #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by dwhitman View Post
    All things being equal, I'd prefer tightly focused patches that do one thing.

    I understand how the various device menu patches almost need to be combined or they'd walk on each other trying to modify the same small chunk of code, but I sure wish I could pick and choose each individual item to add or remove from the device menu - none of the many versions have exactly the mix I'd prefer.

    Edit: I originally cited the browser multimod as an overloaded patch. Thought I remembered it doing the nice keyboard navigation, plus something else that I didn't need. Reviewing the forum thread, it looks like it really only does the keyboard nav.
    The browser multimod does more than the keyboard shortcuts. It also allowed selection of download or stream files (really useful to save files for later playback), and display the URL in landscape mode (useful when using VK in landscape mode).

    I really miss this patch and can't wait until it is fixed in 1.4.0.

    Hope this helps... plee3
  8. #8  
    As someone who has never written a code, I want to say Thanks! I appreciate all the hard work and effort you put into the WebOs (without pay!)

    "I think it's best to see patches do one specific thing... This gives users easy preference to pick and choose what they want to do."

    This is exactly how I feel! I feel better knowing THIS patch does exactly THIS, and THAT patch does exactly THAT! Just my two cents!

    BTW... we've seen several Palm updates and there are over 250 patches- why is LCD Notification the ONLY ONE to be adopted by Palm? It just seems backwards to me!

    Thanks again!!
  9. snpalavan's Avatar
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    #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyKat View Post
    BTW... we've seen several Palm updates and there are over 250 patches- why is LCD Notification the ONLY ONE to be adopted by Palm? It just seems backwards to me!
    Yeah i have wondered that myself, it sure would keep Palm from doing as much work , just copy/paste from the patches into the updates haha. But i'm sure that Palm has someone watching us (conspiracy) and some patches have been adopted. If only they would make it more direct, then everyone would win!
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyKat View Post
    BTW... we've seen several Palm updates and there are over 250 patches- why is LCD Notification the ONLY ONE to be adopted by Palm? It just seems backwards to me!
    I'd bet the reason they don't just throw in patches is because the way they are written for the current OS version might not function properly in subsequent versions. This would explain why so many patches don't work immediately after an update.

    Palm probably threw in the Notification patch when they finalized all code effected by it.


    To answer the OP, how possible would it be to create apps that were capable of installing/unistalling patches involving certain features. For example, an app that dedicated to the device menu. the user would just check off which device menu patches they want installed/uninstalled then hit ok, the latest patches would be downloaded and installed, then luna would restart.
  11. #11  
    Just a luser here, but I concur. Keep them as distinct patches unless there is no other way to mix them than to create a single mix patch.

    Thank you all for your hard work in making our phones so customizable and fun to use!
  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mhunterjr View Post
    I'd bet the reason they don't just throw in patches is because the way they are written for the current OS version might not function properly in subsequent versions. This would explain why so many patches don't work immediately after an update.
    Many times patches don't work from one update to the next is simply because the code referenced in the patch file has moved or been modified.

    If Palm included any patch, it would be integrated into the existing code and work without issue going forward, as with the GPS hash code for GSM phones.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mhunterjr View Post
    Palm probably threw in the Notification patch when they finalized all code effected by it.
    This one was already there in the code from day one but commented out by Palm...The patch we've been using simply uncommented the code.

    .
  13. snpalavan's Avatar
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    #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mhunterjr View Post
    To answer the OP, how possible would it be to create apps that were capable of installing/unistalling patches involving certain features. For example, an app that dedicated to the device menu. the user would just check off which device menu patches they want installed/uninstalled then hit ok, the latest patches would be downloaded and installed, then luna would restart.
    This is another good idea, instead of categories for patches, have individual apps that u can check off different patch effects, can even set them up based on feeds. That way the same categories can be used and just have each app update the feed for its specific features.

    This might require a lot of updating since every time a patch is updated/added the app will have to be reinstalled to have the latest available features and and that would be a lot of app updating. Not bad, just annoying for the common user who has to keep track of everything.
  14. #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by xanthinealkaloid View Post
    Many times patches don't work from one update to the next is simply because the code referenced in the patch file has moved or been modified.

    If Palm included any patch, it would be integrated into the existing code and work without issue going forward, as with the GPS hash code for GSM phones.

    .
    well yeah thats my point, but with some of these patches palm might still have plans to move and modify things so they simply don't include the patch.



    Quote Originally Posted by snpalavan View Post
    This might require a lot of updating since every time a patch is updated/added the app will have to be reinstalled to have the latest available features and and that would be a lot of app updating. Not bad, just annoying for the common user who has to keep track of everything.
    i don't think the user would have to keep track of things. what i'm thinking of is more or less specialized versions of preware where its simply the feeds that are being updated, not the app itself
  15. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyKat View Post
    BTW... we've seen several Palm updates and there are over 250 patches- why is LCD Notification the ONLY ONE to be adopted by Palm? It just seems backwards to me!
    The LED Notification Patch only enabled what Palm had in webOS. The code was there & the patch just gave us the option to allow the LED Notification. Palm didn't adopt anything, just edited the OS to enable the notifications without a patch.
  16. piaband's Avatar
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    #16  
    I strongly prefer the mix patches. When I find one I like, its so much easier to manage than 4 or 5 patches. If I need to remove/update/reinstall, 4 or 5 is pretty annoying...whereas 1 is pretty simple.

    I like multi-mix patches.
  17.    #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by piaband View Post
    I strongly prefer the mix patches. When I find one I like, its so much easier to manage than 4 or 5 patches. If I need to remove/update/reinstall, 4 or 5 is pretty annoying...whereas 1 is pretty simple.

    I like multi-mix patches.
    From first post:

    The open ipkg ecosystem supports dependencies and combining multiple patches into a bundled package can be done as-is very easily, without having to replicate code and cause the issues I have mentioned above.

    -Eric G

    WebOS Internals Developer.
    Follow me on Twitter for updates to my projects: | Virtual Keyboard | wIRC | SuperTux | AUPT | KeyBoss | freeTether |

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