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  1.    #1  
    If I'm wrong, correct me PLEASE, but I think we need to define our terms instead of flaming people who don't remove their *tweaks* because they've only heard that you should remove *patches* before updating.

    I'm on my PrPrPr&#$275$;, $so$ $I$'$m$ $gonna$ $keep$ $this$ $relatively$ $short$.

    If they're the same thing, that needs to be made very, very clear in every PreCentral article and pre-update (no pun) warning on the site.

    Homebrew's awesome, but documentation is sometimes lacking in some areas. (Obviously someone will always ignore the big, red letters warning them not to do X and nuke their phone. I recognize this, too.)
    * Stuck patches? Partial erase worked for me.
    * Stuck virtual keyboard? Partial erase AND folder deletion worked for me.
  2. #2  
    ...tweak means a program or script which changes the behavior of an application or script usually for gain in performance of functionality, normally from a third-party.

    Patch means a program or scrip which changes the behavior of an application or script usually for gain in performance of functionality, normally from a first-party.

    Synonyms are usually implied to be interchangeable.
  3. #3  
    The terms tend to get used interchangeably around here.
  4.    #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by DeathsArrow View Post
    The terms tend to get used interchangeably around here.
    That's kinda the problem.

    Often, people are saying one when they mean both. That's potentially problematic.
    * Stuck patches? Partial erase worked for me.
    * Stuck virtual keyboard? Partial erase AND folder deletion worked for me.
  5. #5  
    it is used as the same thing. Don't go by the literal meanings.
  6.    #6  
    The point is that we should make that clear to the masses WHENEVER we tell them or WARN them about tweaks, patches, and the like.
    * Stuck patches? Partial erase worked for me.
    * Stuck virtual keyboard? Partial erase AND folder deletion worked for me.
  7. #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by west3man View Post
    If I'm wrong, correct me PLEASE, but I think we need to define our terms instead of flaming people who don't remove their *tweaks* because they've only heard that you should remove *patches* before updating.

    I'm on my PrPrPr&#$275$;, $so$ $I$'$m$ $gonna$ $keep$ $this$ $relatively$ $short$.

    If they're the same thing, that needs to be made very, very clear in every PreCentral article and pre-update (no pun) warning on the site.

    Homebrew's awesome, but documentation is sometimes lacking in some areas. (Obviously someone will always ignore the big, red letters warning them not to do X and nuke their phone. I recognize this, too.)
    Patch is the well-used historical term for what we are doing to webOS. Preware uses the term Patch exclusively.

    WebOS Quick Install introduced the term "tweaks" to refer to the stuff it does in a way which is not the same as a Patch.

    For webOS update purposes, you should treat them the same.

    Now, which wiki page have you added to recently to improve the homebrew documentation?

    -- Rod
    WebOS Internals and Preware Founder and Developer
    You may wish to donate by Paypal to donations @ webos-internals.org if you find our work useful.
    All donations go back into development.
    www.webos-internals.org twitter.com/webosinternals facebook.com/webosinternals
  8. #8  
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  9.    #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by rwhitby View Post
    Patch is the well-used historical term for what we are doing to webOS. Preware uses the term Patch exclusively.

    WebOS Quick Install introduced the term "tweaks" to refer to the stuff it does in a way which is not the same as a Patch.

    For webOS update purposes, you should treat them the same.

    Now, which wiki page have you added to recently to improve the homebrew documentation?

    -- Rod
    A guy who has to ask this question doesn't seem like the most-likely wiki candidate.

    I do think this this info should be shared more often.
    * Stuck patches? Partial erase worked for me.
    * Stuck virtual keyboard? Partial erase AND folder deletion worked for me.
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by west3man View Post
    A guy who has to ask this question doesn't seem like the most-likely wiki candidate.

    I do think this this info should be shared more often.
    On the contrary, a person who has most recently been looking for information, should know exactly where to put the information when it is provided so that the next person looking in the same places will find it.

    -- Rod
    WebOS Internals and Preware Founder and Developer
    You may wish to donate by Paypal to donations @ webos-internals.org if you find our work useful.
    All donations go back into development.
    www.webos-internals.org twitter.com/webosinternals facebook.com/webosinternals
  11.    #11  
    That's worth considering, but I'm confident a number of users use the information on these forums to proceed with updates, etc. I still think it'd be useful to have this information pointed out, explicitly and regularly on these forums.
    * Stuck patches? Partial erase worked for me.
    * Stuck virtual keyboard? Partial erase AND folder deletion worked for me.
  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by west3man View Post
    That's worth considering, but I'm confident a number of users use the information on these forums to proceed with updates, etc. I still think it'd be useful to have this information pointed out, explicitly and regularly on these forums.
    Fully agree. As far as I can see that's already happening.

    Every front-page article mentioning patches reminds people to remove them before doing a webos update.

    Every front-page article mentioning webos updates reminds people to remove patches.

    The trouble is that humans simply don't read stuff before doing. Doesn't matter where you put the info, it still gets ignored.

    -- Rod
    WebOS Internals and Preware Founder and Developer
    You may wish to donate by Paypal to donations @ webos-internals.org if you find our work useful.
    All donations go back into development.
    www.webos-internals.org twitter.com/webosinternals facebook.com/webosinternals
  13.    #13  
    I think it does matter where you put the information. If so, there'd be no point to the many articles, posts, and threads on the subject. Obviously, someone somewhere will always ignore what's right in front of them. Most of us do that at one time or another, but that doesn't mean that those who WILL read and heed the advice shouldn't get that chance in a post that tells them everything except what I suggest in this thread.

    I also don't see it being mentioned everywhere - "it" being the patches AND TWEAKS need to be removed before updating.

    This post is an example: http://www.precentral.net/webos-131-...lable-download

    It warns users to remove patches and THEMES before updating, but the post doesn't mention tweaks at all.



    But the collective answer from this thread seems clear enough: No one will do anything differently. If I want something to change, instead of suggesting it come from the community, I ought to do my part and hope that's enough.

    That's unfortunate.
    * Stuck patches? Partial erase worked for me.
    * Stuck virtual keyboard? Partial erase AND folder deletion worked for me.
  14. #14  
    Just wanna clarified my position.

    WebOS Quick Install v2.0 introduced the Tweaks section, back before the average user had any easy means to .patch installation. I called the section "Tweaks" and actually referred each item on there are system mods. Evidentally the name "tweak" caught on as a more consumer friendly name than patch or mod, at the time.

    Currently I see a tweak as a larger encompassing category than simple a .patch as several tweaks in WOSQI are image replacements, like messaging avatar, boot logo, and phone theme.

    And if anyone has checked out the WOSQI thread, I've frequently told people to uninstall all themes and patches/tweaks.
    If you've liked my software, please consider to towards future development.

    Developer of many apps such as: WebOS Quick Install, WebOS Theme Builder, Ipk Packager, Unified Diff Creator, Internalz Pro, ComicShelf HD, LED Torch, over 70 patches and more.

    @JayCanuck @CanuckCoding Facebook
  15. #15  
    I think the best solution is for the tool authors to create and deploy technology which saves the end-user from hassle even if they forget to do the right thing.

    The WebOS Internals Emergency Patch Recovery tool (which can remove patches even *after* the webOS update has been applied) is an example of this.

    -- Rod
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by rwhitby View Post
    I think the best solution is for the tool authors to create and deploy technology which saves the end-user from hassle even if they forget to do the right thing.

    The WebOS Internals Emergency Patch Recovery tool (which can remove patches even *after* the webOS update has been applied) is an example of this.

    -- Rod
    well at least there's WebOS Repair Utility, eh
    If you've liked my software, please consider to towards future development.

    Developer of many apps such as: WebOS Quick Install, WebOS Theme Builder, Ipk Packager, Unified Diff Creator, Internalz Pro, ComicShelf HD, LED Torch, over 70 patches and more.

    @JayCanuck @CanuckCoding Facebook
  17. #17  
    Yep, that's another good example of tools written to save users from themselves

    -- Rod

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