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  1.    #1  
    See main thread for original discussions about Meta-Doctor: WebOS Internals Meta-Doctor

    This thread is to discuss 2017 (and beyond) modifications to the Meta-Doctors as brought up in the webOS Users Online Meetups: webOS User's Online Meet up
    Project: "UPDATED META-DOCTORS (ideally with documentation) - Herrie, bbito"
  2.    #2  
    Here is a first proposed sub-project: Provide Doctor URL flexibility
    I have created a github issue for this on my meta-doctor fork: https://github.com/bbito/meta-doctor/issues/1
    For non-github-users, here is the gist:
    This issue proposes that the domain portion of the hard-coded URLs in the meta-doctor scripts are replaced with variables set in a sub-script so a single file can be modified to change the domain in all of the individual scripts.
    Last edited by bbito; 09/17/2017 at 06:27 PM.
    Preemptive likes this.
  3. #3  
    A list of suggestions for inclusion from the last user group meeting:
    • Activation Bypass
    • OSSL
    • Preware


    Possible additions if they are created:
    • Updated time service
    • Updated internet location service
    bbito likes this.
  4. #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by Preemptive View Post
    A list of suggestions for inclusion from the last user group meeting:
    • Activation Bypass
    • OSSL
    • Preware


    Possible additions if they are created:
    • Updated time service
    • Updated internet location service
    What do you mean by "internet location service": The Google one that stopped working?
    Time service should be pretty straight forward (binary patch) by simply replacing the URL in the binary with a working one.
    I think additionally it would be good to add the patch from frantid as per: Google Calendar Sync Behaviors patch
    HP Veer (daily driver), HP Pre 3, HP Touchpad Proper 4G/LTE (Sierra MC7710), HP Touchpad 32GB WiFi, Palm Pre 2
  5. #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by Herrie View Post
    What do you mean by "internet location service": The Google one that stopped working?
    Yes. I used internet to differentiate from the built in GPS receiver.

    The Google Calendar and C+DAV stuff also makes sense to me.
  6. #6  
    I would also like to propose including TouchVol as a default application. I find it essential when dealing with the PulseAudio-bug (and I doubt pulseAudio will be fixed); and as a result it's about the first app I install (plus I like to be able to set my game or video's volume while I'm not in-game/in-app).

    I do think Preware should be installed by default (does LuneOS have the same version of Preware, and if not, why?)
    Should this also include access to the alpha-feeds (with those feeds turned off by default)? - Otherwise many users will probably re-install it almost immediately and that kinda defies the purpose I think...
  7. #7  
    LuneOS uses the new ENYO-based Preware2 package, which is still under development. Legacy Preware uses Mojo.
    Preemptive likes this.
  8.    #8  
    Hi webOS Folks,
    Thanks for the feedback and keep it coming!
    I feel I was potentially making some inappropriate assumptions that everyone left on webOS is familiar with meta-doctoring, but it may be that only FrankenPre users like myself and some others have actual experience with it, so I want to lay out some info about meta-doctor for those who haven't dug into it yet. I'll layout what meta-doctor is now so that it can be understood that while creating something different is possible, it would be a feature (or group of features) to develop.

    See the webos-internals wiki for meta-doctor: Application:MetaDoctor - WebOS Internals

    As it stands the meta-doctor tool is used only on a Linux can be used on a Mac or Linux desktop to create custom webOS Doctor builds.
    - I imagine that this will not change... However, if you do not have access to a Mac or Linux desktop nor an appropriate machine to temporarily load Linux onto, perhaps you can find a kind soul who will build custom doctors for you that can then be run on anything with working novacom and compatible Java installed.

    Some of the requests coming in are already part of meta-doctor, such as "Activation Bypass" - the corresponding meta-doctor flag is "BYPASS_ACTIVATION" but note that the meta-doctor readme states that: "BYPASS_ACTIVATION removes the Palm activation process that normally runs on the first boot of the device. This allows users to use the device even if they do not have access to cellular connectivity or would prefer not to go through the activation process. This option disables the cellular functionality until the next time you doctor. Bypassing activation may prevent you from creating a Palm profile. This is not a method to use a device on a different cellular carrier. Note that this option is only for use on Phones, not Tablets."
    see https://github.com/webos-internals/meta-doctor

    So unless something has changed, or one of our patron saints, Rod Whitby, got it wrong, I don't think this is something people actually want since it is only available for phones and it disables cellular connectivity...

    If you can spare the time, please take a look at the actual flags currently available for the meta-doctor when considering what your dream script might include - these are all listed on the meta-doctor github readme

    One entirely new feature I am interested in exploring is providing a mechanism to pre-install (or at least pre-load) patches and ipks stored in a specified sub-folder within the meta-doctor folder so I can put Preware, InternalsPro, their dependent packages, etc. in that folder and have everything I normally install already on-device ready to install or pre-installed when the Doctor is done. This feature could instead download those packages from Preware feeds for you - perhaps after reading a Preware Saved Package List, but then it would be limited to packages available from a feed and not the paid apps, etc. that you may have backed-up or collected.

    So I wanted to get this out there that meta-doctor as it stands is a tool to make awesome custom webOS Doctor jar files, but it is not (yet at least) an awesome custom webOS Doctor jar file that is being provided to you. It was specifically designed to avoid legal hassles around redistributing webOS Doctor files by giving us the tools to make our own custom doctors jars.
    Last edited by bbito; 09/20/2017 at 03:08 PM. Reason: Add Macos support
  9. #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by Misj' View Post
    I would also like to propose including TouchVol as a default application. I find it essential when dealing with the PulseAudio-bug (and I doubt pulseAudio will be fixed); and as a result it's about the first app I install (plus I like to be able to set my game or video's volume while I'm not in-game/in-app).

    I do think Preware should be installed by default (does LuneOS have the same version of Preware, and if not, why?)
    Should this also include access to the alpha-feeds (with those feeds turned off by default)? - Otherwise many users will probably re-install it almost immediately and that kinda defies the purpose I think...
    TouchVol makes sense for TP. Not sure it's much use on phones?

    With regards to Preware. On webOS Preware was a Mojo app.

    On LuneOS we have an Enyo 2.0 rewrite. So they're different apps.
    HP Veer (daily driver), HP Pre 3, HP Touchpad Proper 4G/LTE (Sierra MC7710), HP Touchpad 32GB WiFi, Palm Pre 2
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by bbito View Post
    Some of the requests coming in are already part of meta-doctor, such as "Activation Bypass"
    Er... perhaps it's getting a bit 'cross purposes' here or perhaps it's a confusion of terms. It's not something I've ever needed to do, but the device tool and other techniques skip the activation process, but allow cellular use if the SIM card is already activated on the network. If the Meta-doctor process 'permanently' disables cellular use, then that is not what is being suggested. It may be that the meta-doctor can't do this..? The 'Bypass activation' being suggested would mean a freshly doctored phone would be ready 'out of the box' and not need to be unstuck with the device tool.

    I don't know much about meta-doctoring, but I think the purpose is to offer a developer device, a (pre-patched) custom setup or to restore a setup. For this reason it was suggested as an easy means to setup devices that now require so many patches to function effectively (see the service pack thread). The required patches (only) could be included at the start, saving every user from installing all the patches individually. I imagine that once the basic set of 'service pack' patches are identified and agreed, it would take a certain amount of effort to generate a doctor for every device variation, but then a simple matter to produce the custom doctors.

    However, it is at the point of distribution that the issue of copyright arises. It can be argued that these are files for devices that have been discontinued for 6 years and a system that has been sold off and modified to have a different interface on a different class of device (LGwebOS TVs). You can't run the doctors on a TV. That said, we continue hoping that HP won't finally shut down the servers with these files because even if neglected, they remain a trusted source. So they are technically still available from HP, even if we have to jump through a few hoops to get them.

    If custom doctors are not distributed, the average user is stuck with manually installing patches (which is not a disaster) as constructing a doctor will be too high a hurdle for many. The activation problem may have caused many to assume their old webOS devices were broken if they couldn't be bothered to search for a solution.

    A work around could be to offer a simple UI of selectors to take an appropriate 'base' doctor and add the correct patch versions before building a meta-doctor. The user would need the hosts file fix and a Linux installation. This seems to be what the second post is heading towards with the ability to alter URLs.
    Last edited by Preemptive; 09/18/2017 at 09:28 PM.
  11. #11  
    The short version is that we were looking for an actual service pack. If there are copyright issues around using the meta-doctor, perhaps the idea of a 'super patch' would work?
    1. Edit the hosts file.
    2. Download and run the (standard) doctor.
    3. Bypass activation.
    4. Install the super patch.

    If point 4 is practical, are there real advantages to using meta-doctors? Which method would have least 'friction'?

    EDIT: Wait a minute. What is this technique over here? [TP] QupZilla Is IPK compilation on device possible? I guess it's irrelevant as the device still needs to have activation bypassed first.
    Last edited by Preemptive; 09/18/2017 at 09:45 PM.
  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by Preemptive View Post
    we continue hoping that HP won't finally shut down the servers with these files because even if neglected, they remain a trusted source. So they are technically still available from HP.
    I very much assume that noone at HP is left who knows that these files (we are talking the doctor files here) are still hosted on some server at HP.
    It most likely just sits on that box and noone knows/cares what this is good for. Eventually this might just die without notice from HP.
    So we better look out for a better controlled home.

    That is my view - as I've have been working for HP* before ( but not related to webos).
  13.    #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by MartinH@webos View Post
    Eventually this might just die without notice from HP.
    So we better look out for a better controlled home.
    Well currently palm.si is the alternate home and I'm working to make it very easy to point the meta-doctor scripts to that domain or any future domain without fussing around in each individual script.



    -- Sent from my Palm Pre using Forums
    MartinH@webos likes this.
  14. #14  
    FWIW, I believe a meta-doctor can be built through Cygwin under Windows (though I have not tried this, but if you have the make package and some others installed, I would suspect it would work), and definitely under MacOS 10+ as well (this I have done -- in fact, a MacBook Pro was my personal machine up until recently).
    Did you know:

    webOS ran on a Treo 800 during initial development.
  15.    #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by dkirker View Post
    FWIW, I believe a meta-doctor can be built through Cygwin under Windows (though I have not tried this, but if you have the make package and some others installed, I would suspect it would work), and definitely under MacOS 10+ as well (this I have done -- in fact, a MacBook Pro was my personal machine up until recently).
    If someone can confirm that Cygwin works again, it would be great to update the webos-internals wiki which currently states in bold text: "NOTE THAT USING CYGWIN ON WINDOWS IS NO LONGER SUPPORTED AND WILL MAKE YOUR PHONE FAIL TO BOOT"
    It would also be great if someone with more recent MacOS could check and update the wiki about that because the last tested version is Snow Leopard: Application:MetaDoctor - WebOS Internals
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by bbito View Post
    Well currently palm.si is the alternate home and I'm working to make it very easy to point the meta-doctor scripts to that domain or any future domain without fussing around in each individual script.
    I am not a lawyer, but the first post of the original thread has a link to Rod whitby's blog
    There are also some dubious sites that redistribute modified versions of the webOS Doctor (which is a clear violation of copyright law, since it contains proprietary Palm software). Note that WebOS Internals is always careful to comply with all copyright laws (copyright law is the foundation upon which open source licenses are based).
    I could be wrong, but it seems to me that if distributing modified copies breaches copyright law, distributing unmodified copies does the same.
    I think it logical that a company like HP that actually supplies servers manages them well enough to know what is there and is able to look at what is happening. I can't be bothered to check the timings, but it's likely the server 'shutdown' was to allow the sale of the Palm brand and assets (i.e. palm.com) to TCL. Therefore, the Palm domain now directs to a different server. The app catalog contained material that was the property of other parties and continuing to offer the Palm profile / backup service would imply some tacit contract with users. So those services are gone and we can expect nothing from HP. They may have forgotten to turn off or re-purpose the machine, but I expect someone knows that it is there and what is on it. Though there is no official link, the server logs will be showing the occasional blip of a download and anyone one who cares to look on this forum will see we are still accessing the doctors. It could be the case that it is actually more effort to decommission the server than it is to leave it ticking over and it may even be a case of benign neglect: HP (or at least a friendly server manager)
    knows what we are doing, but as long as the doctors are available, webOS devices can get fresh installs and be brought back to life. One day the server manager may check a log and see the server's done nothing for a year or it maybe due for an upgrade or replacement and that will be the end of it.

    Back to my main point:
    • Download from HP and make your own doctor: Legal.
    • Use a service that does the above for you (on your own machine): Legal.
    • Either of the above using a doctor you already downloaded from HP (i.e. local copy in the event that the doctor server is gone): Legal
    • Download from another source: Probably not legal.
    • Download a ready-built meta-doctor: Not legal.

    Therefore I suggest that everyone is directed to the HP servers (signs of life may even lead to them being left on) and encouraged to keep copies of everything they may need. Any meta-doctor is made from original HP downloads as long as they are accessible.

    If and when the servers finally go dark, we can take a view about whether or not HP 'cares' about their copyright and if the plan is to redistribute copies of the doctors, then we may as well go all the way and distribute pre-built meta-doctors.
    Last edited by Preemptive; 09/19/2017 at 04:08 PM.
  17. #17  
    It's been posted many times by now, but has to be repeated here: activation bypass does NOT disable cellular connectivity.
  18.    #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by Grabber5.0 View Post
    activation bypass does NOT disable cellular connectivity
    Grabber5.0, are you writing specifically about the meta-doctor "BYPASS_ACTIVATION" flag?
    I know that using devicetool or 'bypassing' palm profile creation by doing the konami code and enabling developer mode is fine, but are you sure that that part of the meta-doctor readme should be edited?
  19. #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by bbito View Post
    Grabber5.0, are you writing specifically about the meta-doctor "BYPASS_ACTIVATION" flag?
    I know that using devicetool or 'bypassing' palm profile creation by doing the konami code and enabling developer mode is fine, but are you sure that that part of the meta-doctor readme should be edited?
    Well I'm about 90% sure, but you're making me question it. It should be easy enough for someone familiar with custom meta dr creation to confirm. I have not created one in a long time, and just re-use the ones I have already. I don't remember anymore which meta dr scripts set that flag.
  20.    #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by Grabber5.0 View Post
    Well I'm about 90% sure, but you're making me question it. It should be easy enough for someone familiar with custom meta dr creation to confirm. I have not created one in a long time, and just re-use the ones I have already. I don't remember anymore which meta dr scripts set that flag.
    Yeah, I can't really test because the only active phones I have are the 2 Sprint FrankenPres my wife and I use as our only phones. I'm not going to doctor a daily driver just to test this - could someone who uses GSM and has a couple of phones check this out? Then its just a matter of swapping a SIM into it and checking that voice and data work.
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