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  1.    #1  
    There are many opinions on whether or not this should be enabled, and depending on the device you are using seems to have a lot to do with it. I have Uberkernel installed as well as all the other patches to stop all the logging that takes place and to better manage memory, Even so, today while playing Sparkle the TMC msg popped up several times, I closed the game and checked Govnah and noticed a swap memory of 103 was being used. The phone also froze and I had to pull the battery. I didn't have Compcache enabled at the time but something tells me that if I did, this would not have occurred.

    So I enabled it and set the memory at 32mb and so far the phone seems smooth and stable with no problems. But in searching through the forums I seem to read the opposite effect from others who say it slows down performance and causes lag, I have not had that problem so far. But it would be nice to get a definite answer on what the benefits are to using Compcache and the conflicting stories of why some say to enable it and others say not to.
  2. #2  
    I was just wondering the same thing last night
    m505 > Z|71 > T|C > T|T3 > LifeDrive > iPod touch 4 >
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    Lumia 830 > 635 > iPhone 5s > Galaxy Alpha > Lumia 640 >
    iPhone 5c > Nexus 5 > Nexus 5X > Blackberry Priv
    My Palm OS Archive
  3. #3  
    The reason you get conflicting reports is because the benefit is workload dependent.

    Everyone uses their phone in different ways.

    -- Rod
    WebOS Internals and Preware Founder and Developer
    You may wish to donate by Paypal to donations @ webos-internals.org if you find our work useful.
    All donations go back into development.
    www.webos-internals.org twitter.com/webosinternals facebook.com/webosinternals
  4. #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by hotlynx69 View Post
    There are many opinions on whether or not this should be enabled, and depending on the device you are using seems to have a lot to do with it. I have Uberkernel installed as well as all the other patches to stop all the logging that takes place and to better manage memory, Even so, today while playing Sparkle the TMC msg popped up several times, I closed the game and checked Govnah and noticed a swap memory of 103 was being used. The phone also froze and I had to pull the battery. I didn't have Compcache enabled at the time but something tells me that if I did, this would not have occurred.

    So I enabled it and set the memory at 32mb and so far the phone seems smooth and stable with no problems. But in searching through the forums I seem to read the opposite effect from others who say it slows down performance and causes lag, I have not had that problem so far. But it would be nice to get a definite answer on what the benefits are to using Compcache and the conflicting stories of why some say to enable it and others say not to.
    Search for the "Clearing Swap Memory" thread. Compcache, as implemented in Uberkernel, is a band-aid for the poor memory handling Palm never bothered to tune. Basically, it was discovered that running your basic RAM and swap space was the fastest and most efficient, provided you increase the swap partition (which as you see, is way too small). If you're good at terminal and Linux commands, read the thread on how to boost your swap space and the various vm settings. If you're scared, just use the sysctl patch, along with compcache. All webOS phones suffer from not enough memory and poor memory management, so to remedy it, you need to tune the various memory parameters (sysctl patch) and increase total memory (either by enlarging your swap space or using compcache, depending what you're comfortable with).
  5.    #5  
    I will give that a try thank you. As much as I enjoy Webos I see why it never got any real traction in the market and maybe why HP is rebuilding it from the ground up. Linux is well known for having very long extended up times and unmatched reliability, rebooting is very rare for a Linux machine so when I go looking for answers to this problem and I see a lot of people just suggesting to reboot and discover there is even a patch that will do this automatically it is a bit disheartening. Linux is better than that and Webos should be no exception, hopefully issues like these and others are being fixed in the new OpenWebos
  6. #6  
    It is a pitty, as the solutions discover in the Clearing Swap Memory thread can easily be incorporated by HP by copy-pasting the settings into their own sysctl.conf in /etc. Even though we did the dirty work to fine tune VM, I'm sure everyone would have been happy if HP stole our work there and incorporated it. However, that requires time (and if you read some of the comments in the scripts/confs, you'll see there must not have been much). However, the swap memory size they got right with the Pre3, which is significantly larger and is actually adequate. If you are good with Linux, the thread I mentioned is a good starting point on which settings to play with and suggested parameters. Also, enlarging your swap space to around 500 MB is more than you'll ever need.
  7. #7  
    I'm sure that there are good reasons why the numbers chosen were chosen. General performance in a wide variety of situations is often preferable for a release item versus adjustments that may have a huge affect both positive and negative in other situations. shrug.

    In any case, compcache is a tradeoff of using some RAM to hold compressed versions of what would normally be cached to disk. This has obvious detrimental impacts in low memory situations (such as, oh, on all of our devices, since 512MB is considered to be quite weak as far as computing power goes), but is it more of a detrimental impact than hitting the flash memory would be? Depends on the situation.
    Author:
    Remove Messaging Beeps patch for webOS 3.0.5, Left/Right bezel gestures in LunaCE,
    Whazaa! Messenger and node-wa, SynerGV 1 and 2 - Google Voice integration, XO - Subsonic Commander media streamer, AB:S Launcher
    (1:39:33 PM) halfhalo: Android multitasking is like sticking your fingers into a blender
    GO OPEN WEBOS!
    People asked me for a donate link for my non-catalog work, so here you are:
  8. #8  
    This is an interesting conversation, now, I have to base my opinion on the pre3, which is its own beast, due to the fact that the main cpu and the baseband cpu share the 512meg of ram, so It has less available memory for apps then the other webos phones besides the pre-. I have found that compcache on my pre3 makes it MUCH slower to use swap (which i find nearly unavoidable on the phone). I have used over 100mb of swap at times, and although there is always some swapping lag here and there, its much worse for me with compcache on, but as said I guess YMMV on the usage of it or not...
  9. #9  
    Hmm. Interesting. With my Pre3 with all the kernel mods and compcache enabled, i'm showing 384mb ram available for system use. on my Pre+, i'm showing about 498mb. Did not know that.

    Also, the Pre3 has almost 200MB free out of it's 384mb, though there's a few K in the swapper anyway, probably just things that it's marked "not needed".

    I wonder if that means that if I got a custom kernel onto my Pre+ it'd be comparable to the performance of the pre3...
    Author:
    Remove Messaging Beeps patch for webOS 3.0.5, Left/Right bezel gestures in LunaCE,
    Whazaa! Messenger and node-wa, SynerGV 1 and 2 - Google Voice integration, XO - Subsonic Commander media streamer, AB:S Launcher
    (1:39:33 PM) halfhalo: Android multitasking is like sticking your fingers into a blender
    GO OPEN WEBOS!
    People asked me for a donate link for my non-catalog work, so here you are:
  10.    #10  
    Well using the command line is not something I want to mess with, at this point in my life and the state of technology today I shouldn't have to go that route. Installing preware and patches is more than what the average user is willing to do. I do have Disk cache mod installed, along with system control optimization. With compcache enabled everything is stable for the moment. I do notice a 2mb of swap space being used, for what purpose I don't don't know, but its an improvement over the 100mb swap that was being used before I enabled compcache.
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by eblade View Post
    I'm sure that there are good reasons why the numbers chosen were chosen. General performance in a wide variety of situations is often preferable for a release item versus adjustments that may have a huge affect both positive and negative in other situations. shrug.
    Problem was nothing was chosen. Almost all the VM parameters are the default parameters, which is kind of tuned for all around performance on a desktop, not a mobile device. Also, as Luna and WebAppMgr are tasks, VM needs to be tuned such that it's allowed to occupy a lot of memory, otherwise you get horrid lag (very evident on a Pixi).

    For the OP, I would use sysctl.conf with swap alone. The reason why your swap usage is lower is because in Compcache, the ram partition is of higher priority, and everything else is then pushed to swap. Also, the sysctl settings keeps memory and Luna in check. If you still feel compcache is better for you, then implement it as a swap space only. The way compcache we know it is implemented is outdated by what the original devs have got now (now called ramzswap). Instead of using a backing store, compcache is set-up as a regular swap space, as Linux does a better job than compcache at decided where to dump everything. Again, the thread I mentioned has all the details (it's as simple as disabling it in Govnah and modifying two lines in the compcache file). Unfortunately, when it comes to this level, patches can't help you out, as patches can't create swaps or disk partitions (unless modifing actual conf files). Tailor might be able to do this if you want a GUI approach, but commandline is still the best way. Personally, I rather keep the RAM open as much as possible as there isn't much of a speed difference between swap on a flash drive and RAM as there is in a hard disk and RAM, especially given the limited CPU performance on a mobile device. As such, my swap usage, w/o compcache is around 20-50 MB on my Pre3, unlike my Pixi where 150 MB was normal.
  12.    #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by bassman97 View Post
    Problem was nothing was chosen. Almost all the VM parameters are the default parameters, which is kind of tuned for all around performance on a desktop, not a mobile device. Also, as Luna and WebAppMgr are tasks, VM needs to be tuned such that it's allowed to occupy a lot of memory, otherwise you get horrid lag (very evident on a Pixi).

    For the OP, I would use sysctl.conf with swap alone. The reason why your swap usage is lower is because in Compcache, the ram partition is of higher priority, and everything else is then pushed to swap. Also, the sysctl settings keeps memory and Luna in check. If you still feel compcache is better for you, then implement it as a swap space only. The way compcache we know it is implemented is outdated by what the original devs have got now (now called ramzswap). Instead of using a backing store, compcache is set-up as a regular swap space, as Linux does a better job than compcache at decided where to dump everything. Again, the thread I mentioned has all the details (it's as simple as disabling it in Govnah and modifying two lines in the compcache file). Unfortunately, when it comes to this level, patches can't help you out, as patches can't create swaps or disk partitions (unless modifing actual conf files). Tailor might be able to do this if you want a GUI approach, but commandline is still the best way. Personally, I rather keep the RAM open as much as possible as there isn't much of a speed difference between swap on a flash drive and RAM as there is in a hard disk and RAM, especially given the limited CPU performance on a mobile device. As such, my swap usage, w/o compcache is around 20-50 MB on my Pre3, unlike my Pixi where 150 MB was normal.
    I found the thread and is very long so I went to the wiki and I see how to get started, I haven't attempted it yet but just to be sure is that sysctl.conf patch just for Pre's and Pre Plus, I have a Pre 2, so shouldn't I have plenty of Ram or whatever. My tech knowledge only goes so far so forgive me as I try to understand this. I do appreciate you taking the time to offer some guidance on this.
  13. #13  
    Basically, that thread started out with solving issues with 2.x on a Pre-. However, what was learned there is beneficial for all webOS devices. Now, there are 2 sysctl.conf patches, one for legacy devices (Pre- & Pixi/Pixi+) and one for Pre+ & newer. The difference between two are adjustments to the various parameters based on the device's processing power and total ram. I for one never installed the patches, preferring to tailor the settings to my own specific needs (since according to rmausser's patch, I still have it preferring swap than RAM and for me this works better). It is partially thanks to that thread that I have grown accustomed to Linux, as I needed to do something other than reset my Pixi daily just so I can make it a week without it locking up. Once you jump into it, it really isn't all that bad. The only thing to remember is make sure whatever you use as a text editor, make sure it does End-Of-Lines in Linux format or else your device WILL NOT boot. Don't ask me how I know Mac OS 9 format does this. But Internalz, just select Linux or use the standard terminal editors like vi.
  14.    #14  
    I will have to chew on this one for awhile I have to be in the right frame of mind to start using the terminal and command line jargon. For now compcache seems to have solved the problem, have to see if in a week if I start to have trouble again.
  15. #15  
    i'd like to thank bassman97 for saying to look for the 'clearing swap memory' thread. I stumbled on an old thread, and learned that #*LOGS# works on webOS 2.x (to set logging to minimal)

    whearas I thought it was 3.x specific

    <3 performance has improved
    Last edited by xandros9; 09/11/2012 at 07:44 PM.
  16.    #16  
    I did some more reading on the clearing swap thread and from what I can see, Rod Whitby suggest not to even go this route unless your a expert and know how to undo everything you're implementing. In fact unless a packaged solution can be provided in Preware it would be best to leave this stuff to the experts and those willing to take the risk of ruining their phones. So for now the the bandage solution of using compcache seems to be all there is for those of us that prefer a simple patch we just download directly from preware.
  17. #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by hotlynx69 View Post
    I did some more reading on the clearing swap thread and from what I can see, Rod Whitby suggest not to even go this route unless your a expert and know how to undo everything you're implementing. In fact unless a packaged solution can be provided in Preware it would be best to leave this stuff to the experts and those willing to take the risk of ruining their phones. So for now the the bandage solution of using compcache seems to be all there is for those of us that prefer a simple patch we just download directly from preware.
    Well, someone should be able to make a patch to modify compcache to get rid of the backing store, as it's just modifying 2 lines in the compcache file. I though cannot. However, keep in mind those warnings are just to remind you to be careful. Again, a doctor will fix any issues you create (like me when I used Mac OS 9 EOL in Internalz). But, if you have used command line before, you shouldn't have any problems. Also, it's easier in 2.x to do this as you will have all the packages necessary, unlike 1.x which needs optware. In basic terms, you are shrinking the /media/internal drive and transferring that space for use in swap. If you are uncomfortable in doing that, then I'd wait until Tailor can be used to do it (unless it can already do that now, I haven't really used it to know). In the end, it's up to you to take the dive, as I doubt any patch will be made to do this. But, alternatively, Metadoctor scripts allow you to mess with partition sizes, if you want to doctor your device.
  18.    #18  
    Well I can't pretend to completely understand all the tech terms of backing store and swap and what it does and the best way to utilize these things, so I will have to take your word for it. But you make some good points that I think Rod Whitby or some other person involved in development of compcache and uberkernel should answer as to why they are not doing what you suggested.
  19. #19  
    What should I do to my Pre 3 for better memory and swap use?
  20. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by hotlynx69 View Post
    Well I can't pretend to completely understand all the tech terms of backing store and swap and what it does and the best way to utilize these things, so I will have to take your word for it. But you make some good points that I think Rod Whitby or some other person involved in development of compcache and uberkernel should answer as to why they are not doing what you suggested.
    Probably because it's good enough, and when compcache first came out, that was the preferred way. Keep in mind it's easier to use what Palm gave us instead of replacing it.

    Essentially, this is how compcache works stock: Everything that is pushed to swap is first pushed to the RAM swap space (ramzswap/compcache). Then, everything that is of lower priority is instead pushed into the disk swap space. In the older compcache implementation, the compcache code was used to determine what gets sent where. However, the devs have found out that adding that piece of code is worthless when Linux can do it, and do it better. So, disk swap and backing store are the same thing, just they are called differently depending what method is used.

    kill_Dano, it all depends on your usage. The system optimization patch is a good start, but you might prefer different parameters. The swap space is already large enough on the Pre3, so it's just a matter of optimizing the parameters.
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